Biblical "good"

[Alithis]

Well then, allow me to post this yet again:

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

all a fabricated load of rubbish ..not a word of truth in any of it . theories and conjectures made up from imaginations .

all i see is man's words on pages of text .. not an iota of irrefutable proof of evolution . none , nada zip..

 

[Alithis]

The ultimate answer of the evolutionists: given enough time. Have you ever studied the fruit fly. Life cycle of a few days. A thousand years is the equivalent of 100,000. No genetic change.

yes . And the great dishonesty of evolution denies that ,for all its bold claims ..it remains a chosen belief system and all its "so called" facts hinge on a past that cannot be known nor ever proven and the entire belief system of evolution only came into being not much more then 300 short years ago. they take what they see in from of them and say ... without any proof what so ever .. that "this is how it came about " and call it truth . and we are to accept that truth because "they said so" .
they do not know the beginning from the end .

 

[charis en excelcis]

yes . And the great dishonesty of evolution denies that ,for all its bold claims ..it remains a chosen belief system and all its "so called" facts hinge on a past that cannot be known nor ever proven and the entire belief system of evolution only came into being not much more then 300 short years ago. they take what they see in from of them and say ... without any proof what so ever .. that "this is how it came about " and call it truth . and we are to accept that truth because "they said so" .
they do not know the beginning from the end .

Our a prioris will always affect our beliefs. In all honesty, if I was not a theist, evolutionary theory would be the most reasonable explanation. having overturned that table, I stand believing in microevolution, but not macroevolution.

 

[Alithis]

Our a prioris will always affect our beliefs. In all honesty, if I was not a theist, evolutionary theory would be the most reasonable explanation. having overturned that table, I stand believing in microevolution, but not macroevolution.

i went through a stage of beginning to believe all manner of compromise ..wondering,... questioning .. then it was revealed to me by the Lord (who frees us from the SNARE of the fowler) That it was but a repeat of the serpent in that garden asking .. "did god really say.....? questioning the word of God in such a manner as to undermine confidence in the Lord .

So the lord graciously caused me to cast off doubt and unbelief and stand upon His word alone for his word is truth .
Truth you see is not subject to facts . is not dependant on facts and is not changed by facts .. facts can be falsified and misrepresented (and are constantly so in the theory of evolution in amst dishonest manner ) facts can also be an outright manifestation of lies .
for example (i speak from within the truth of christianity and the wisdom of the word of God ) -the serpent came and LIED to eve .. that is a fact .. but what he asked and said ..was a lie . so we see here that the fact represented a lie .

the lord jesus said .. man shall not live by bread alone ( the outer necessity of the flesh or its intellect ) but by every WORD which proceeds from the mouth of God .thus faith is not to ever to be governed by what the natural mind sees hears touches or taste . but is to be solely governed by the living word of God .because in the end of all things of this world . the facts will submit to the truth. never the truth to the fact.

 

[charis en excelcis]

I do not believe that evolution is the Shebboleth of our faith. My belief in creation as the origin of the species is firm. I do not question the word of God, though I strongly disagree with some of your interpretation as well as your view on facts. Are you puzzled by my use of the terms microevolution and macroevolution?

 

[Alithis]

I do not believe that evolution is the Shebboleth of our faith. My belief in creation as the origin of the species is firm. I do not question the word of God, though I strongly disagree with some of your interpretation as well as your view on facts. Are you puzzled by my use of the terms microevolution and macroevolution?

micro evolution is really just deformity isnt it ?
and macro evolution is but argumentative theory and conjecture .. if anything confuses me it is any sense of the need to even discuss it . in what manner is it spiritually edifying ?

im not interpreting anything ..im standing on the word of God over and above everything else as truth -in absolute disregard for what ever facts may be seemingly presented -thats what faith does .. it calls those things which are not ,as though they already are . it transcends all intellectual and scientific reason .

ie- moses stood with a nation trapped by the sea with an army bent on cutting them to pieces bearing down on them and god said " hold out your stick over the waters "
now we must agree there is absolutely no emotional , intellectual or scientific reason to even remotely assume that standing there holding stick out is a solution to that near and present danger .
but faith -did it any way .

and since these things are recorded for our instruction and admonition , when ever i am presented with so called facts of ANY kind which threaten to contradict the word of god ..i am also confronted with a choice to either believe god with ALL my heart .. or to doubt him..
so i believe god and consider the present facts false because both God and man cannot be right and God cannot lie .
and if in my testimony of the truth of the lord Jesus i appear a fool for his name sake .. then i rejoice in that opportunity to identify with him in every aspect of life upon this earth .

 

[MarkFL]

Okay, so you choose to ignore evidence and believe something different by faith, that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[charis en excelcis]

micro evolution is really just deformity isnt it ?
and macro evolution is but argumentative theory and conjecture .. if anything confuses me it is any sense of the need to even discuss it . in what manner is it spiritually edifying ?
Micro-evolution is the narrowing of the genetic spread, so we take the dog animal and out of that comes the wolves and the dogs. Still the same species, just narrowed genetics.

im not interpreting anything ..im standing on the word of God over and above everything else as truth -in absolute disregard for what ever facts may be seemingly presented -thats what faith does .. it calls those things which are not ,as though they already are . it transcends all intellectual and scientific reason .
You interpreted "food" allegorically. while our conclusion would be close. I believe that when Jesus refered to bread, he was referring to the physical needs of life rather than the worldly system.

ie- moses stood with a nation trapped by the sea with an army bent on cutting them to pieces bearing down on them and god said " hold out your stick over the waters "
now we must agree there is absolutely no emotional , intellectual or scientific reason to even remotely assume that standing there holding stick out is a solution to that near and present danger .
but faith -did it any way .

and since these things are recorded for our instruction and admonition , when ever i am presented with so called facts of ANY kind which threaten to contradict the word of god ..i am also confronted with a choice to either believe god with ALL my heart .. or to doubt him..
so i believe god and consider the present facts false because both God and man cannot be right and God cannot lie .
I believe that there are many things presented as fact that are not, and I believe that there are many conclusions, based upon facts, but nevertheless wrong. God cannot lie. neither in word or in action. He does not set off to deceive, but allows us the free will to deceive ourselves.
and if in my testimony of the truth of the lord Jesus i appear a fool for his name sake .. then i rejoice in that opportunity to identify with him in every aspect of life upon this earth .

I do not think you are a fool

 

[charis en excelcis]

Third issue: The lack of an "engine" for macroevolution. Macroevolution requires the emerging of genetics factors not previously present in an organism. Evolutionism presents this paradigm: an organism presented with an environmental barrier adapts to overcome that barrier. That change eventually produces species changes. The problem is that species changes involved the addition and reshuffling of genes. the problem is that there is no process in nature which provides for this change. Attempt to see mutation as a positive force is unfounded. Mutations, if survived are at best marginally useful. the genetic change necessary to move from invertebrate and vertebrate, from water breathing to air breathing, from cold blooded to warm blooded, etc. requires not only massive genetic changes, but requires single generational changes, since half way would be fatal.

 

[Alithis]

Okay, so you choose to ignore evidence and believe something different by faith, that's certainly your prerogative.

and the point i was making all along on that vein is ..- you also do the same in the reverse .

wit the one major difference - what i believe results in a tangible fulfilment of the the bible promises -the unseen made manifest to the heart .

 

[MarkFL]

and the point i was making all along on that vein is ..- you also do the same in the reverse .

wit the one major difference - what i believe results in a tangible fulfilment of the the bible promises -the unseen made manifest to the heart .

No, the major difference is I am not ignoring compelling evidence in favor of faith. But, I am done here. I cannot force stubbornly closed minds to look at plain and compelling evidence. It is exactly the same as if I was trying to convince someone that the Earth is round and not flat. The evidence for evolution is just as compelling as the pictures from space of the round Earth, but when someone is bound and determined to close their eyes, it becomes a fruitless discussion and one must move on to a discussion with reasonable people.

 

[Alithis]

No, the major difference is I am not ignoring compelling evidence in favor of faith. But, I am done here. I cannot force stubbornly closed minds to look at plain and compelling evidence. It is exactly the same as if I was trying to convince someone that the Earth is round and not flat. The evidence for evolution is just as compelling as the pictures from space of the round Earth, but when someone is bound and determined to close their eyes, it becomes a fruitless discussion and one must move on to a discussion with reasonable people.

so dishonest ? why ?

if i am ignoring what "you" deem to be evidence ( though iv not seen ANY evidence what so ever - someone else opinion written on paper is merely some one else opinion - it is not evidence to me- there is none . )

then you are equally ignoring what i deem to be evidence of god ..

but it appears only one of us is being honest about it ./

you cannot give me a single iota of compelling evidence to support the theory of evolution . yoiu can give me theory ,conjecture ,guess work ,opinion, mostly second party and third party at that .. but compelling evidence .. none .. - it is no more then its own belief system -but it id a belief system which offers no point nor reason to existance ..its all a big oops and here we are - pointless.

you see my point is .. if a person chooses to disbelieve a thing .. it is because they have chosen to do so .. and when that is the wrong choice they will be held accountable to it . because there is consequence to everything .. except evolution . it is the most reasonable theory that ever has been brought forth by the minds of fools .
a random explosion results in perfection of mathematical pattern .. yeh right . and a fart produces mars bars .

i mock the theory of evolution in every aspect of its foolish existence .it is pointless .

the very presentation of the theory is an opposition to the christian faith .

fear God! for he is the reason, the beginning and the completer of our lives .

 

[charis en excelcis]

No, the major difference is I am not ignoring compelling evidence in favor of faith. But, I am done here. I cannot force stubbornly closed minds to look at plain and compelling evidence. It is exactly the same as if I was trying to convince someone that the Earth is round and not flat. The evidence for evolution is just as compelling as the pictures from space of the round Earth, but when someone is bound and determined to close their eyes, it becomes a fruitless discussion and one must move on to a discussion with reasonable people.

I realize that this is not addressed to me, but I wanted to grab something that you had said. I enjoy very much discussing these kinds of issues and have enjoyed, so far, our conversation. I know that we have different starting points and that it is likely that we will not come to an agreement. I still believe that it is helpful to both orf us to think about one another's ideas. I hope that you have not felt disrespected by me. thank you

 

[MarkFL]

I realize that this is not addressed to me, but I wanted to grab something that you had said. I enjoy very much discussing these kinds of issues and have enjoyed, so far, our conversation. I know that we have different starting points and that it is likely that we will not come to an agreement. I still believe that it is helpful to both orf us to think about one another's ideas. I hope that you have not felt disrespected by me. thank you

You are at least willing to actually look at what evolution is about and understand what it says. With you I can have an actual discussion. But with those who must subvert reality to grasp desperately onto their beliefs, there is no possibility whatsoever of fruitful discussion.

 

[charis en excelcis]

In the parable, God says to those on the left, "I never knew you." Salvation is relational. That relationship is freely given, but there is no other "door" to heaven. That does not mean that goodness has no effect. I believe those who are truly seeking goodness, will have opportunity to experience the Righteous One.

 

[Alithis]

You are at least willing to actually look at what evolution is about and understand what it says. With you I can have an actual discussion. But with those who must subvert reality to grasp desperately onto their beliefs, there is no possibility whatsoever of fruitful discussion.

how sweet for charis en excelcis , lol..

sadly in my case you have missed my point all along ..in my apparent belligerence on the topic of evolution..i have been presenting a stance that is absolutely unreasoned .purposely .

and that is how i view the atheist and evolution .. it is a stance that has decided by sheer will to disbelieve the creation which surrounds you and decide that there is no God .

so what iv been doing was to display what that sounds like" to us ".. by presenting you with a stance that has decided by sheer will to disbelieve any evidence in favor of believing that God is and that he is a reward of those who seek him diligently .

----
outside of that i have observed the "evidence " presented by evolutionists -but in all honesty have found absolutely nothing compelling about it -especially in that it offers me no reason to exists ,let alone live . so how is one to have "fruitful" discussion when the ultimate logical conclusion evolution must reach is fruitlessness and futility of existence without reason nor goal . for no speck of dust in an explosion thought to itself i will grow and achieve a higher state of being .it set no goal and can achieve nothing .

perhaps you think it offers me something more but i don't see how .

In contrast , having believed in the lord JESUS i have tangibly experienced the power of His Spirit at work in my life and found he is faithful to his word .
he has offered me life and that without end and has given me , by the tangible down payment of his Holy Spirit His guarantee that not only this measure of Life but ALL the fullness of Life will be given me . for i know i am within a body of flesh and it will one day cease to function(known as the first death) and i will go on to be with him .. for he died upon the cross and three days later rose again from the dead and was seen by over 500 people who know who he is . this he did as evidence that the resurrection fro the dead ..is truth .
those that believe will be resurrected to eternal life because he has made this way open tom all - those that refuse to believe will continue on to where they are already going and that is eternal separation from LIFE and all that true life entails .

for whosoever believes in the name of the lord Jesus shall not perish but have everlasting life .

The eyes witness accounts of the many in regard to life beyond the ceasing of the bodies function ( death) are far too numerous to be ignored and as i know such a one personally and know his testimony to be true (google . the jellyfishman

now i know you say there is no evidence of God .. but you do so in the face of such numerous testimony and so declare .without any grounds what so ever , every testifier to be a liar.
then turn around and say i must believe all the theory and conjecture of this writer or that lecturer (not an ounce of testimony in their words ) without question because they are right.. - and they are right merely because "you say so " .

But im not buying your say so . - sorry

 

[Alithis]

In the parable, God says to those on the left, "I never knew you." Salvation is relational. That relationship is freely given, but there is no other "door" to heaven. That does not mean that goodness has no effect. I believe those who are truly seeking goodness, will have opportunity to experience the Righteous One.

iv always held to that also ..
as did the lord jesu when he said .. "seek " and you shall find .

 

[Hebrews 11]

No, the major difference is I am not ignoring compelling evidence in favor of faith. But, I am done here. I cannot force stubbornly closed minds to look at plain and compelling evidence. It is exactly the same as if I was trying to convince someone that the Earth is round and not flat. The evidence for evolution is just as compelling as the pictures from space of the round Earth, but when someone is bound and determined to close their eyes, it becomes a fruitless discussion and one must move on to a discussion with reasonable people.

It shouldn't be unreasonable to comprehend that there are aspects of creation that , you will never understand.

As Christians we know that we were created in the image of God.
We know God the Father the Son and Holy Spirit.
We are Spirit, Soul and Body.

There is a major flaw in science that equates to Atheism.
The flaw is a lack of spiritual disernment on the part of the Atheist.

Atheist base there truth on what there physical senses can show them,and it's only when you answer to a higher power than your understanding by faith you will come into Spiritual fellowship with God.
How do I know this?
Through his Spirit abiding in my being.
God's Word tells us that the natural man or temporal man can not comprehend Spiritual things,so we are asked to command the Creator of all things to prove himself?
If you had a child would you enjoy proving that all the love you have for him,each time you tell that child you are his Father.
Can you prove to a child you love them?
Without your love your gift of life is meaningless to the child.

Show me love in its physical form.
Show me what makes you believe the sun will rise tomorrow,prove it.
Or does the Atheist have his own faith?
Not believing is just as much of a religon as believing,Atheist are religous.

Take a good scientific look at quantum biological physics.
In this field you will find that there exist higher power able to move matter by simply believing.
Everyone is called by God it is not his will that any should perish.
It is a very important consideration that is a gift received by faith.

 

[MarkFL]

It shouldn't be unreasonable to comprehend that there are aspects of creation that , you will never understand.

There is much that none of us living today, or any day, will never understand. The difference between you and me is that I am comfortable not knowing, and I don't feel the need to make up an explanation to fill gaps.

As Christians we know that we were created in the image of God.
We know God the Father the Son and Holy Spirit.
We are Spirit, Soul and Body.

This is what you believe, but you do not truly know it. You may feel you know it because this is what you have told yourself for so long, and have been told, and you have the support of others who believe the same way, but it is not knowledge in the true sense of the word.

There is a major flaw in science that equates to Atheism.
The flaw is a lack of spiritual disernment on the part of the Atheist.

There is lack of belief in things without compelling evidence on the part of the atheist...things like gods, fairies, ghosts, angels, demons, etc.

Atheist base there truth on what there physical senses can show them,and it's only when you answer to a higher power than your understanding by faith you will come into Spiritual fellowship with God.

No, I believe in the atomic nature of matter, even though my senses are blind to it. But models with predictions carefully tested by experiments give compelling evidence for it, and it has stood the rigorous testing and peer reviewed process we call science.

God's Word tells us that the natural man or temporal man can not comprehend Spiritual things,so we are asked to command the Creator of all things to prove himself?
If you had a child would you enjoy proving that all the love you have for him,each time you tell that child you are his Father.
Can you prove to a child you love them?
Without your love your gift of life is meaningless to the child.

I can demonstrate to a child that I love that child through my actions. The child is aware of me, and directly experiences my love for him or her.

Show me what makes you believe the sun will rise tomorrow,prove it.

Well, for starters, the sun has "risen" each and every one of my 18,984 days on this planet. The Earth rotates, it has angular momentum, and gives rise to the apparent motion of the sun across the sky each day. How can you not know this?

Or does the Atheist have his own faith?
Not believing is just as much of a religon as believing,Atheist are religous.

This is one of the silliest statements theists can make. Atheism by definition is lack of religion, or belief in gods.

Take a good scientific look at quantum biological physics.
In this field you will find that there exist higher power able to move matter by simply believing.

No, I won't. Where are you getting this? Show me the evidence for whatever it is you are trying to say here.

Everyone is called by God it is not his will that any should perish.
It is a very important consideration that is a gift received by faith.

Again, this is simply a belief. If your beliefs give you some kind of comfort, fine, but don't try to trot them out to me as fact. It holds no water whatsoever.

 

[Hebrews 11]

No need to quote or try to respond, you cannot have a discussion with someone who dismisses the validity of anything presented.
As far as sciences : 5000 years ago the Bible told us about the gravitational field of the 7 sisters bound by Orion s belt.
As well long before Christ the earth was referenced as being round.

I will not do your study for you,because your answers are equated to (ain't so)

A robot can commit acts of love ,but you can not define it's physical being.

Rerove a scorned man,and you will get a Blot.

Reprove a wise man and he will love you for it.

No need reply.