Catholic Only The Faith of Our Fathers ... a link to a very valuable and very readable book

[MoreCoffee]

​When I was going through the process of becoming a Catholic I took to reading various Catholic books to test the beliefs of the Catholic Church and see if I could accept them or if they were totally crazy nonsense - like I'd been told they were. Among the books I read is this one.

The Faith of Our Fathers

An excellent short survey of Catholic teaching on topics that typically present problems for those who are not Catholic. It was written in the 1870s and revised by its author until his death in the 1920s (I think). His name was James (Cardinal) Gibbons. It is well worth the read if you like to know things.

The books is out of copyright so you can read it here by clicking this link

The cover looks like this:

 

[Mountain Girl 406]

Thanks, that looks like a good read.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Thanks, that looks like a good read.

I enjoyed it, I keep returning to it for clear explanations of important doctrines.

 

[Josiah]

I'm by no means an expert (my degree is elsewhere) but I have a couple of books of quotes from the ECF and I've studied them via the net, and what seems to me STUNNING how entirely missing Catholicism is....

The "Fathers" NEVER - not once, not ever - seem to share anything distinctively Catholic. The profound, complete absence of Catholicism in them surprised me very, very much. I have never been able to find any distinctive RCC doctrine in ANY of them - no matter how abused the snipping process. Now, sometimes, some modern Catholic will creatively translate something... then delete several of the words.... then replace each of those words with words the modern Catholic WISHED the Father wrote.... then appoint himself as the infallible interpreter of that Father.... then insist that what matters is NOT what the Father didn't say (the Catholic replaced the words, remember) but what that Father MEANT to write but just didn't.... then note that what that Catholic says the Father MEANT to write (but didn't) in the tiny snippet the Catholic appointed self to interpret from words the self-same Catholic substituted for what was actually writen IMPLIES some Catholic dogma. That's the closest I've seen.

Later.... as I began to learn about Eastern Orthodoxy, I learned that this is a big point with them (could have saved myself a lot of time and work if I'd checked out the EOC first)....

At several websites, over the past several years, I have repeatedly asked Catholics to give us even one little snippet from anyone (even a heretic) before 300 AD who IN THE WORDS THEY WROTE is clearly teaching some distinctive Catholic dogma. No one - not one - has been able to do this. At CatholicAnswers, I had a thread on this... not only could NO Catholic produce even ONE Catholic snippet, but one of the apologists admitted that Catholicism didn't exist then - we have "proto-Catholicism" he wrote. When I showed that to my Greek Orthodox friend, she wrote, "Yeah - it's called Orthodoxy, what the Roman Catholic deserted, abandoned and rebelled against!" MY lesson learned is that a study of the Fathers proves that Catholicism didn't exist then... they were not Catholic. They may not have been Lutheran or Methodist either, but they were not Catholic.

Stunning to see the ABSENCE of Catholicism in the early church...... The ECF prove this. It did surprise me. To know history is to realize the vain emptiness of Catholic claims.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm by no means an expert (my degree is elsewhere) but I have a couple of books of quotes from the ECF and I've studied them via the net, and what seems to me STUNNING how entirely missing Catholicism is....

Have you read the book that this thread is about?

 

[Josiah]

Have you read the book that this thread is about?

Would you supply quotes that show they affirmed the distinctive, unique doctrines of the specific RCC?

I've seen dozens and dozens of threads started by Catholics at a variety of sites, claiming that CATHOLICISM existed in the early church. But is always stunning to me is that the very same Catholics (!!!) go on to prove their claim entirely, wholly, false: they can't produce even one - not even ONE - quote from anyone (even a heretic) before 300 AD that teaches ANY unique doctrine of the RC Denomiantion.... NOTHING to even suggest that they were distinctively CATHOLIC in doctrine. They PROVE Catholicism per se didn't exist then. My Greek Orthodox friend notes often how RCC'er constantly shoot themselves in the foot on this and I've witnessed it over and over and over on nearly every Christian discussion forum (now this one, too).

I've read some books on the ECF..... and I've noted the complete absence of anything CATHOLIC. It is stunning to see this complete absence.




- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

Would you supply quotes that show they affirmed the distinctive, unique doctrines of the specific RCC? ...

I take your reply to be an affirmation that you have never read the book and haven't got a clue what it says.

 

[Josiah]

I take your reply to be an affirmation that you have never read the book and haven't got a clue what it says.

I take your reply that you realize you cannot quote a single snippet from anyone before 300 AD that reveals he/she was distinctively CATHOLIC, proclaiming a unique doctrine of your singular denomination: NOTHING to remotely indicate they were distinctively CATHOLIC doctrinally. If you had something - anything - I think you would have presented it. In my 12 years or so of asking for SOMETHING, no one yet as done so..... most, like you, don't even try (perhaps not wasting their time on what they know doesn't exist).

 

[charis en excelcis]

​When I was going through the process of becoming a Catholic

If I may ask, how old were you when you converted, did you go through a formal discipleship process and how long now have you been a catholic?

 

[MoreCoffee]

​When I was going through the process of becoming a Catholic I took to reading various Catholic books to test the beliefs of the Catholic Church and see if I could accept them or if they were totally crazy nonsense - like I'd been told they were. Among the books I read is this one.

The Faith of Our Fathers

An excellent short survey of Catholic teaching on topics that typically present problems for those who are not Catholic. It was written in the 1870s and revised by its author until his death in the 1920s (I think). His name was James (Cardinal) Gibbons. It is well worth the read if you like to know things.

The books is out of copyright so you can read it here by clicking this link

The cover looks like this:

If I may ask, how old were you when you converted, did you go through a formal discipleship process and how long now have you been a catholic?

How old do you think I was when I read the book mentioned? It's an adult catechism, I also read another Catechism for adults called THE TEACHING OF CHRIST -A CATHOLIC CATECHISM FOR ADULTS.

I do not intend to tell you my personal story or my age or when I became a Catholic. Suffice it to say I am a Catholic now. By the way, the second catechism mentioned was in its second edition when I read it.

 

[Josiah]

How old do you think I was when I read the book mentioned? It's an adult catechism, I also read another Catechism for adults called THE TEACHING OF CHRIST -A CATHOLIC CATECHISM FOR ADULTS.


I do not intend to tell you my personal story or my age or when I became a Catholic. Suffice it to say I am a Catholic now. By the way, the second catechism mentioned was in its second edition when I read it.

I read one chapter of this book: on the Eucharist. It's EXACTLY the sort of thing that lead to be leaving that denomination. He never even BEGINS to address the RCC's Eucharistic Dogma: Transubstantiation/Accidents, but misleads the reader to THINK the RCC actually holds to the Orthodox or Lutheran positions (which it most certainly does NOT). Then - without even MENTIONING the actual RCC position, makes this absurd sweeping condemnation of "Protestants" which also is just plain WRONG.

Oh, I could read other chapters (I now have a link to it) but this seems to be the SAME misinformation, the same "just swallow my koolaid" stuff, the same sweeping condemnations of STRAWMEN that I found so typical in Catholicism.



- Josiah

 

[psalms 91]

Anytime I have seen Catholic lititure it seems to be a lot of double speak. Case in point the word catholic and they will lead you to believe that is all inclusive but the truth is that if you are not in the Catholic church then you are not a part of being a Christian. They may say the right things but it is what they really believe that counts

 

[MoreCoffee]

Anytime I have seen Catholic lititure it seems to be a lot of double speak. Case in point the word catholic and they will lead you to believe that is all inclusive but the truth is that if you are not in the Catholic church then you are not a part of being a Christian. They may say the right things but it is what they really believe that counts

Catholic is one of the four marks or notes of the Church, taken from the Nicene Creed. The Church is catholic or universal both because she possesses the fullness of Christ’s presence and the means of salvation, and because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race.

 

[Josiah]

Catholic is one of the four marks or notes of the Church, taken from the Nicene Creed. The Church is catholic or universal both because she possesses the fullness of Christ’s presence and the means of salvation, and because she has been sent out by Christ on a mission to the whole of the human race.

Your denomination is never mentioned in the early centuries - because it didn't exist. The adjective "catholic" in the creed means "whole" "universal" as the adjective still does. It is absurd to violate English grammar, capitalize an adjective to try to imply that that legal moniker of a denomination is being mentioned. The Creed is simply affirming that there is one, holy, catholic communion of believers (the Protestant view!).

Let's say, here in 2015, I write that my Mazda Miata is awesome. Then, in the year 2576, Toyota comes out with a new model teleporter with the moniker Toyota Awesome. Would it not be silly to INSIST, "Hey, Josiah owned an Awesome back in 2015!" Ah, desperate people will do anything - no matter how absurd, no matter how much needs to be violated, to skirt around reality.


.

 

[charis en excelcis]

"I do not intend to tell you my personal story or my age or when I became a Catholic. Suffice it to say I am a Catholic now. By the way, the second catechism mentioned was in its second edition when I read it."
Since I asked you those questions, it is only fair that I answer them myself. I became a Christian at the age of 16. I was a very bright child and spent much of my early years in the faith questioning the beliefs and practices of Christians. (My generation: Question all authority.) Both before and after my conversion, my Lord took every blow and dealt with me patiently. I have now served my Lord for forty-two years. I hold a ministerial degree from Northwest University, which included three years of theology and three years of NT Greek. More importantly, I have been favored by my Lord to serve Him in teaching and preaching the word of God for thirty-seven years. a wondrous part of the Reformation was the recognition of the priesthood of the believer. I trust the work of the Holy Spirit in illuminating the truth of scripture as the believer studies the word of God.