Does Jesus Hate Children?

[popsthebuilder]

It is the corrupted nature of human rebellion against God. It manifests itself almost immediately. No social cues needed.

Scripture please

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[MennoSota]

Scripture please

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Did you not read Psalm 51:5-7 when I posted it earlier? Did you not read atpollard's posting of Romans 3?
Have you not read "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Being-Born-In-Sin

 

[MennoSota]

(Show me the verses that say children are damned please; as opposed to men.

Here is a copy I wrote a few years back. I was at very least agnostic when it happened. It was initially written to someone who was curious of why i changed from what i was. I look forward to discussing actual scripture about children.)

This is a copy that I wrote to someone who had inquiries about two years ago I guess.

Please ask anything and give honest opinion.

Okay. A little back ground is in order I suppose.

From early childhood up until what happened I was an atheist or agnostic. I remember thinking at a young age that there couldn't be a God because pain and suffering seemed to be observable everywhere. At some point I did consider the Sun to be a higher power of sorts as no life that I knew of could live without it. I remember asking my father once if he thought there was a God. After careful consideration he replied that he did not know. I lived with my mom. We didn't go to church much; maybe a handful of times in early childhood. She wasn't really spiritual or religious that I could tell. I do recall my grandmother being a believer because at family gatherings she would insist that someone said grace or have thanks to God. Anyway, I went through life in relative solitude, always being somewhat odd or different I guess. At an early age I recognized pain as an electronic signal of sorts. In doing so I was able to train myself to endure quite a bit of it. I turned myself off emotionally somehow, letting little really affect me. I began to realize that anger and pain could be channeled and used as strength and motivation. Not being spiritual in any way, I guess I didn't realize the ramifications this could have later.

Fast forward to mid twenties. All lessons I learned the hard way, taking no advice from any, finding out for myself. Personal failure and disappointment on a constant level made me self loathing. Severe drug addiction made it worse. Though I had strength I couldn't stop by my own will seemingly. I hated pretty much everything, but most of all, myself. I awoke angry and fell asleep angry for years, even before serious drug addiction. I fought myself for a couple of years trying to change the direction I was witnessing myself going. I used to park at graveyards and contemplate death. I fervently wished I had the strength to kill myself, and hated myself that much more for being too cowardly to go through with it. Throughout my life, but mostly throughout my addiction, I had a lot of time to contemplate things, and view my own actions or the lack there of retrospectively. Somewhere in the midst of all this I recall sincerely swallowing my misplaced pride which was all but gone already, and asking for help. I pleaded to GOD, Christ, Jesus, whatever. I did this once. I realized that regardless of what I thought and how strong I thought I was, I couldn't seem to be able to make the change for better happen. Down, at my lowest point, I recall seeing what most likely would have been explained away by anyone(including myself) as a smudge on a window. There was light coming through. Regardless, the smudge had the vague form of an Angel. I don't know exactly why, but seeing that gave me an inkling of hope. I was still severely addicted though I had lost almost everything I had ever cared about. A woman I had a child with had taken me in at this point and the three of us were struggling pretty bad. She told me she was moving back home and said I could come. I did. I vaguely recall seeing something again when we moved. I don't even remember what it was, but I do remember that it reminded me of what I had seen on the window, and again that misplaced hope surfaced. Months went by. Her, my son, and myself moved in together in her home town. I had not used since we moved. I made a trip back home and used for one night. I returned and went back to not using. Throughout this time I still had all the same hate and anger that I had before. Though I was doing better as far as my drug addiction was concerned, she wasn't really trying to change. Our son was in the middle. This and other things brought great tention on our relationship. I went to jail for a somewhat unrelated reason. I got out about a month later I guess. When I returned home with her and my son I realized she had been doing some really messed up things while I was gone. I was so worried for the upbringing of my son that I justified killing her and going to prison, because I thought my son would be better off. I chased her for about a half an hour, methodically. She couldn't leave because I had her car keys. For those minutes I did intent to take her life with my hands. Thankfully, I eventually have her her keys and she left.

Okay, so that was a lot of back story. Sorry if it bored you. I've never went into that much detail about it but it seemed necessary to convey the state of mind I was in.

I'm not sure if it was the next day or a couple of days later.

I'm driving home from work on a usual road. Listening to the radio as I drive. The radio fades out to silence. This never happened before. I adjust the station and volume to no avail whatsoever...silence. Suddenly and inexplicably I feel this great weight, this huge burden lifted from me. My anger, pain, and hatred are removed all at once. I am overwhelmed with joy as tears flow freely from my eyes( something that previously just didn't really happen). I am utterly and wholly grateful and thank GOD. Many things begin to come into my mind. Things I never even fathomed. I am shown, in my mind, how GOD was with me through all things I had endured. I was shown how every step in my life had been for a reason and that GOD had been ever present through it all regardless of my obliviousness to it. I was shown how GOD was there before my conception and through my troubled birth. I was shown that I was here for a reason and that all I had been through was too, for a reason. Many understandings and revelations took place. Then things stopped coming into my mind. An utter peace never thought possible was with me. A joyous expectation of life filled me. The radio fades back in to the same station and volume it had been at. I felt the strong edge to write down what had taken place. When I got home, I found the nearest utensils at hand and began writing. I had intended to describe the happenings that had taken place. What I wrote is more of some sort of moral code. This all happened when I was thirty in 2011. I never really looked at those writings again for about four years. At which time I started reading the bible. For some reason I don't recall I found this invoice book that I had written in years before. When I read it it was as if it had been taken out of the bible or something because of the nature of the written material.

I had never read the bible or really even heard it prior to writing what I wrote.


In the past couple of years other things have happened and changes have taken place. But that is a different story I suppose. Regardless of what happens to me for whatever reasons, I will never forget the miraculous event that took place in my life by the grace and mercy of GOD.
All praise and thanks is to GOD.




(peace)

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Please answer these questions:
Who is Jesus?
Why did God the Father require Jesus to be killed?
Why will God be pleased with you?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Did you not read Psalm 51:5-7 when I posted it earlier? Did you not read atpollard's posting of Romans 3?
Have you not read "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Being-Born-In-Sin

Are you not aware that the bible is written for grown men and is referring to those in knowing sin as unbelievers, and not ignorant, or innocent children.

What did Jesus have to say about children?

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[popsthebuilder]

Please answer these questions:
Who is Jesus?
Why did God the Father require Jesus to be killed?
Why will God be pleased with you?

To me who is and who was are two different things.

Jesus is synonymous with GOD in that He resides with GOD and came from GOD.

Jesus was the Holy Temple which the Spirit of GOD dwelled in and which testified of GOD almighty.

Jesus sacrificed himself willingly submitting to the will of GOD that all could be saved from eternal destruction through the Truth. The same reason He ministered.

Who ever said such a vain thing as GOD will be pleased with me? Not i.



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[MennoSota]

To me who is and who was are two different things.

Jesus is synonymous with GOD in that He resides with GOD and came from GOD.

Jesus was the Holy Temple which the Spirit of GOD dwelled in and which testified of GOD almighty.

Jesus sacrificed himself willingly submitting to the will of GOD that all could be saved from eternal destruction through the Truth. The same reason he ministered.

Who ever said such a vain thing as GOD will be pleased with me? Not i.



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So God won't be pleased with you?
Why should God open heaven to you and welcome you?

 

[popsthebuilder]

So God won't be pleased with you?
Why should God open heaven to you and welcome you?

I will not speak in such a way.

GOD will be pleased with those who hear and follow the Word of GOD out of faithful belief and genuine love.

I do not do in order to receive.

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[MennoSota]

I will not speak in such a way.

GOD will be pleased with those who hear and follow the Word of GOD out of faithful belief and genuine love.

I do not do in order to receive.

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Many people who have never been given the gift of grace try to follow the commands of the Bible. God will say: "I never knew you."
Has God given you the gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ as the only means by which you are not condemned?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Many people who have never been given the gift of grace try to follow the commands of the Bible. God will say: "I never knew you."
Has God given you the gift of grace through faith in Jesus Christ as the only means by which you are not condemned?

If you are preaching grace alone then you won't like that I believe whole heartedly that one who indeed believes in Christ is one whom said belief is wholly effectual upon via the thoughts of their minds and the actions of their hearts, due to a change in their spirit; or rather, the hope on such through faithfulness....that is , belief for me personally. Not that any other must believe as me, but that it is what I know to be true for me.

Love GOD if you believe in GOD. You will love all HIS creation by extension.

Only one command.

That's faithfulness through sincere love of what is good; that is to say the Spirit of GOD through the law written on the hearts and minds of those who believe in the Christ, and the resurrection.

I'm gonna stop; I don't want this to be a rant.

So you think children who aren't dunked or sprinkled with water, which is a representation of the Spirit, are just damned to eternal torment or what....please explain. How is that merciful.....at all.....and to be clear; I'm asking you per your assumed doctrine; not GOD almighty.

peace

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[MennoSota]

If you are preaching grace alone then you won't like that I believe whole heartedly that one who indeed believes in Christ is one whom said belief is wholly effectual upon via the thoughts of their minds and the actions of their hearts, due to a change in their spirit; or rather, the hope on such through faithfulness....that is , belief for me personally. Not that any other must believe as me, but that it is what I know to be true for me.

Love GOD if you believe in GOD. You will love all HIS creation by extension.

Only one command.

That's faithfulness through sincere love of what is good; that is to say the Spirit of GOD through the law written on the hearts and minds of those who believe in the Christ, and the resurrection.

I'm gonna stop; I don't want this to be a rant.

So you think children who aren't dunked or sprinkled with water, which is a representation of the Spirit, are just damned to eternal torment or what....please explain. How is that merciful.....at all.....and to be clear; I'm asking you per your assumed doctrine; not GOD almighty.

peace

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Is grace effectual for salvation?

I don't believe infant baptism does anything in regard to God's choice of granting grace to an infant. God alone makes the choice to be gracious. Good works or bad works have nothing to do with God's choice regarding whom He saves.

If God chooses not to extend grace to an infant, God would be justified because human corruption exists in the infant. If God chooses to extend grace to an infant, God would be exhibiting His Sovereign right to forgive them their sins through the atoning work of Jesus Christ.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Is grace effectual for salvation?

I don't believe infant baptism does anything in regard to God's choice of granting grace to an infant. God alone makes the choice to be gracious. Good works or bad works have nothing to do with God's choice regarding whom He saves.

If God chooses not to extend grace to an infant, God would be justified because human corruption exists in the infant. If God chooses to extend grace to an infant, God would be exhibiting His Sovereign right to forgive them their sins through the atoning work of Jesus Christ.

"Is grace effectual for salvation?"

I would think faith is effectual due to the grace of GOD alone.

"If God chooses not to extend grace to an infant, God would be justified because human corruption exists in the infant"

Scripture please.





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[MennoSota]

"Is grace effectual for salvation?"

I would think faith is effectual due to the grace of GOD alone.

"If God chooses not to extend grace to an infant, God would be justified because human corruption exists in the infant"

Scripture please.

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Psalm 51:5-7
We've shared it over and over and over.
It is clear that you are rejecting scripture when it has been shared.

Second, faith cannot exist if grace has not been gifted.
"For by grace you have been saved, through faith, which is not of yourself, but it is the gift of God lest anyone should try to boast."

pops, you can claim faith until the earth stops rotating, but it won't save you if God has not chosen to extend grace to you. In fact, your faith would be a mirage because one cannot have faith if God has not extended grace.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Psalm 51:5-7
We've shared it over and over and over.
It is clear that you are rejecting scripture when it has been shared.

Second, faith cannot exist if grace has not been gifted.
"For by grace you have been saved, through faith, which is not of yourself, but it is the gift of God lest anyone should try to boast."

pops, you can claim faith until the earth stops rotating, but it won't save you if God has not chosen to extend grace to you. In fact, your faith would be a mirage because one cannot have faith if God has not extended grace.

Did you gather that I was not extended grace by GOD somehow?

It's like you are arguing with someone who isn't there whom doesn't represent my beliefs at all. I see that a lot with atheists who have devised preconstructed arguments.

Fact is GOD is merciful and full of grace and all knowing and created infants in their state forming them that way. As such all your blind ranting about grace is quite contrary to what you are promoting.

Can you not see that?

Again; what did the physical manifestation of GOD say regarding young children? Who are we to emulate and why?




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[MennoSota]

Did you gather that I was not extended grace by GOD somehow?

It's like you are arguing with someone who isn't there whom doesn't represent my beliefs at all. I see that a lot with atheists who have devised preconstructed arguments.

Fact is GOD is merciful and full of grace and all knowing and created infants in their state forming them that way. As such all your blind ranting about grace is quite contrary to what you are promoting.

Can you not see that?

Again; what did the physical manifestation of GOD say regarding young children? Who are we to emulate and why?




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Interesting that you reject Psalm 51, Romans 3 and all the other verses that say we are corrupt by nature.
Question: When Jesus said to let the children come unto him, did he say they were sinless?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Psalm 51: 1. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. 3. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. 4. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. 5. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. 6. Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. 10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 12. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. 17. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

(That doesn't imply that he was born evil, but with the capacity for it due to GOD given freedom)

The word renew or repair doesn't mean one is renewed to sinful nature because newborns aren't evil.

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[popsthebuilder]

Interesting that you reject Psalm 51, Romans 3 and all the other verses that say we are corrupt by nature.
Question: When Jesus said to let the children come unto him, did he say they were sinless?

You are wholly neglecting the fact that we have the capacity for good and evil at birth due to the gift of freedom given by GOD.

If we are made in GOD'S image and too made naturally evil, then what would be said of GOD according to your doctrine?

What is interesting is that you blindly claim I reject things before you even get my understanding of them.

Are you one of those people who take single verses out of context in order to support a claim? Cuz that isn't too cool.

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[MennoSota]

You are wholly neglecting the fact that we have the capacity for good and evil at birth due to the gift of freedom given by GOD.

If we are made in GOD'S image and too made naturally evil, then what would be said of GOD according to your doctrine?

What is interesting is that you blindly claim I reject things before you even get my understanding of them.

Are you one of those people who take single verses out of context in order to support a claim? Cuz that isn't too cool.

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Why do you reject what God tells us and replace it with your philosophy. You misunderstand being made in the image of God to mean that every person born is made sinless. But...the Bible never says that. In fact it says we are born in sin at conception. Adams fall corrupted all his offspring. The Bible teaches this, yet you create your own philosophy that rejects what the Bible says.
Will you accept what God teaches throughout the entire Bible or will you insist on your personal man-made philosophy?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why do you reject what God tells us and replace it with your philosophy. You misunderstand being made in the image of God to mean that every person born is made sinless. But...the Bible never says that. In fact it says we are born in sin at conception. Adams fall corrupted all his offspring. The Bible teaches this, yet you create your own philosophy that rejects what the Bible says.
Will you accept what God teaches throughout the entire Bible or will you insist on your personal man-made philosophy?

If you cannot grasp the fact that man is born with the capacity for good and evil due to the free will given him by GOD then I have no further reason to talk to you.

You seem to only be interested in blank accusations.

You have yet to answer a single question except for provided a partial psalm while leaving out the fact that that same psalm speaks of exactly what I am talking about. What does renew mean to you?

Rhetorical, by the way.

I'm not interested in repeating myself for no reason all while being accused of false claims of all sorts.

I'm not here to go back and forth to no end and for no reason.
I didn't say man is born sinless, you did. Just because a child is conceived sinfully doesn't mean that child is sin, or that said child would bear any weight of the sin of his conception.

If you want to discuss actual scripture that says children are born having sin under their belt then I would love to see it.




If you think GOD punishes babies after death then I can't help you, but Christ can.



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[MennoSota]

If you cannot grasp the fact that man is born with the capacity for good and evil due to the free will given him by GOD then I have no further reason to talk to you.

You seem to only be interested in blank accusations.

You have yet to answer a single question except for provided a partial psalm while leaving out the fact that that same psalm speaks of exactly what I am talking about. What does renew mean to you?

Rhetorical, by the way.

I'm not interested in repeating myself for no reason all while being accused of false claims of all sorts.

I'm not here to go back and forth to no end and for no reason.
I didn't say man is born sinless, you did. Just because a child is conceived sinfully doesn't mean that child is sin, or that said child would bear any weight of the sin of his conception.

If you want to discuss actual scripture that says children are born having sin under their belt then I would love to see it.




If you think GOD punishes babies after death then I can't help you, but Christ can.



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You have changed the subject. What does God say about our ability to do good?
Romans 3:10-12 tells us.

10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

It seems that apart from Christ, good is merely an attempt to keep the law and evil is a failure to keep the law. But, as the Apostle Paul tells us, no one can be justified by keeping the law for we all fail and thus we are condemned.
So, given a free-will, you freely rebel and run from God...every time. Like Adam and Eve, you hide from God. God must do the work of reconciliation if there is to be fellowship. But God is not obligated to reach out to you and extend grace. He is just if he condemns you for your law breaking. It is, afterall, what you deserve.
Now, will you continue to hold your man-made philosophy or will you accept God's word as truth?

 

[popsthebuilder]

You have changed the subject. What does God say about our ability to do good?
Romans 3:10-12 tells us.

It seems that apart from Christ, good is merely an attempt to keep the law and evil is a failure to keep the law. But, as the Apostle Paul tells us, no one can be justified by keeping the law for we all fail and thus we are condemned.
So, given a free-will, you freely rebel and run from God...every time. Like Adam and Eve, you hide from God. God must do the work of reconciliation if there is to be fellowship. But God is not obligated to reach out to you and extend grace. He is just if he condemns you for your law breaking. It is, afterall, what you deserve.
Now, will you continue to hold your man-made philosophy or will you accept God's word as truth?

It has little to do with the keeping of the written law and all to do with striving to abide by the law written on the heart and mind of the believer due to faith in Christ given by the grace of GOD.

We are in agreement though you may wish otherwise.


I noticed you are still refusing to answer questions with anything other than a question. A question that you shouldn't even be asking if you actually listened to the words coming from me.


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