The vine, the vinekeeper and being cut off (split from Passive Righteousness thread)

[popsthebuilder]

But the gift is already yours by God's choice.
Salvation is given by God's choice. You are adopted by God...by God's choice.
What you do with your position as a child of God is your choice. That is what Paul is getting at in 1 Corinthians 3 when he says our offering can be gold, silver and precious stones or wood, hay and stubble.
Our obedience as a child of God is something we control. Our actually becoming children of God is something that only God decides. You cannot accept your adoption nor reject it. God either chooses to adopt you or he doesn't.

But aren't we told that the branch unnaturally grafted in is too one that can be quickly or easily pruned or cut out of the Vine?

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[MennoSota]

But aren't we told that the branch unnaturally grafted in is too one that can be quickly or easily pruned or cut out of the Vine?

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Who would possibly do that, the vine or the vinekeeper?
Will God unadopt his children?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Who would possibly do that, the vine or the vinekeeper?
Will God unadopt his children?

What does scripture tell us?

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[psalms 91]

What did Jesus do to the unproductive fig tree?

 

[user1234]

If one believes then they live according to believe, which would include turning from sin as well.

That would be part of SANCTIFICATION, it has nothing to do with being saved. Salvation is by believeing in Jesus, His finished work on our behalf.

Who would possibly do that, the vine or the vinekeeper?
Will God unadopt his children?

What does scripture tell us?

Scripture tells us once saved always saved. Our eternal destiny is secure in Christ, our works dont apply.

 

[MennoSota]

What does scripture tell us?

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Read Romans and get back to me.

 

[MennoSota]

Scripture tells us once saved always saved. Our eternal destiny is secure in Christ, our works dont apply.

Well...actually...you can't find anywhere in the Bible where scripture says "once saved, always saved."
That being said, just as our adoption was not conditioned on our actions, so our remaining in Christ is not conditioned on our action. We are dependent upon God's grace.

 

[psalms 91]

And we are also commanded to do certain things and without fruit we know what Jesus did to the fig tree and I am sure that Judas would not agree either

 

[psalms 91]

I will bow out but if thta doesnt fit then neither does the once saved always saved lie

 

[MennoSota]

And we are also commanded to do certain things and without fruit we know what Jesus did to the fig tree and I am sure that Judas would not agree either

What creates fruit, is it you or the Spirit? Without faith, can fruit grow? Who gives the gift of faith?
Did Judas ever have the Spirit of God and the gift of faith? Why did Jesus pick Judas, was it for salvation or for some other reason? (John 6)

 

[Imalive]

What creates fruit, is it you or the Spirit? Without faith, can fruit grow? Who gives the gift of faith?
Did Judas ever have the Spirit of God and the gift of faith? Why did Jesus pick Judas, was it for salvation or for some other reason? (John 6)

He did do miracles. He kicked demons out. I bet the other 11 thought he was a real disciple.

 

[MennoSota]

He did do miracles. He kicked demons out. I bet the other 11 thought he was a real disciple.

You are projecting without any evidence.
We don't know if Judas did any miracles (can demons heal). Did he kick out demons? (can a demon kick out a demon) There have always been wolves among the sheep. Jesus chose the 12. Jesus said one of his choices was a demon. (John 6)
John 6:70-71
[70]Then Jesus said, “I chose the twelve of you, but one is a devil.”
[71]He was speaking of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, one of the Twelve, who would later betray him.

 

[user1234]

Well...actually...you can't find anywhere in the Bible where scripture says "once saved, always saved."
That being said, just as our adoption was not conditioned on our actions, so our remaining in Christ is not conditioned on our action. We are dependent upon God's grace.

Well, if you put it in exact quotes, but you know as well as I do that many a non-believer or cultist uses the arguement that 'this or that isnt EXACTLY QUOTED in scripture', the trinity, rapture, etc., but we know that those things are there, and likewise, the overwhelming testimony of scripture shows osas, as your post even admitted...we're saved and kept by grace...Jesus' work is a done deal. Hallelujah!

And we are also commanded to do certain things and without fruit we know what Jesus did to the fig tree and I am sure that Judas would not agree either

What did Jesus do to a fig tree, and why...what did it represent?
Also, what is the mention of Judas for in light of salvatiin by grace thru faith, I'm not following it.

 

[MennoSota]

Well, if you put it in exact quotes, but you know as well as I do that many a non-believer or cultist uses the arguement that 'this or that isnt EXACTLY QUOTED in scripture', the trinity, rapture, etc., but we know that those things are there, and likewise, the overwhelming testimony of scripture shows osas, as your post even admitted...we're saved and kept by grace...Jesus' work is a done deal. Hallelujah!

What did Jesus do to a fig tree, and why...what did it represent?
Also, what is the mention of Judas for in light of salvatiin by grace thru faith, I'm not following it.

When did God choose those who would be saved? Time is not a factor in salvation from God's view. It is you and I who mark a time when we are made alive in Christ.

 

[Imalive]

You are projecting without any evidence.
We don't know if Judas did any miracles (can demons heal). Did he kick out demons? (can a demon kick out a demon) There have always been wolves among the sheep. Jesus chose the 12. Jesus said one of his choices was a demon. (John 6)
John 6:70-71
[70]Then Jesus said, “I chose the twelve of you, but one is a devil.”
[71]He was speaking of Judas, son of Simon Iscariot, one of the Twelve, who would later betray him.

It says He sent em out and they did that. Doing miracles says nothing about fruit. That's leaves.


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits.

 

[MennoSota]

It says He sent em out and they did that. Doing miracles says nothing about fruit. That's leaves.


And He called the twelve to Himself, and began to send them out two by two, and gave them power over unclean spirits.

Where does it specifically say that Judas did so?
What do you think Jesus is talking about in John 6?

 

[Imalive]

Where does it specifically say that Judas did so?
What do you think Jesus is talking about in John 6?

There. He was one of the 12. My friend lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus knew. The rest said: who is it? I bet they had no idea he was a thief.

Luke 9

Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. 3 And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.

So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

Feeding the Five Thousand
10 And the apostles, when they had returned, told Him all that they had done.

 

[MennoSota]

There. He was one of the 12. My friend lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus knew. The rest said: who is it? I bet they had no idea he was a thief.

Luke 9

Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. 2 He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. 3 And He said to them, “Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.

So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

Feeding the Five Thousand
10 And the apostles, when they had returned, told Him all that they had done.

Why does it matter if the others knew? God knows. God sovereignly chose Judas, knowing full well that he was created for destruction and betrayal.

 

[Imalive]

Why does it matter if the others knew? God knows. God sovereignly chose Judas, knowing full well that he was created for destruction and betrayal.

It matters because what they preach is: everyone who is saved is always saved, but the foolish virgins thought they were once saved always saved too thus didnt watch their walk.

 

[MennoSota]

It matters because what they preach is: everyone who is saved is always saved, but the foolish virgins thought they were once saved always saved too thus didnt watch their walk.

Who cares what the virgins thought. What does God think?
You keep running after straw men. Look at God and observe what God thinks.