Be good or you won't get into heaven

[Lamb]

Be good or you won't get into heaven. Have you heard that one? I've heard it...on plenty of Christian sites. I see people preaching Christ and then turn around and say But if you have to stop sinning or you won't get into heaven. Isn't that a contradiction? Are you relying on Jesus or are you relying on your ability to stop sinning for heaven?

 

[Albion]

Quite a few people do believe in Works Righteousness, though. The world's largest denominations continually feed that concept to their people. IOW, it's not a surprise that people take it in. What they would say about Jesus is that his sacrifice was needed but it didn't relieve you of the obligation to "be good," just that if you now are good enough, the cross makes your efforts count with the Father.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

A former acquaintance of mine (Jewish) had a magnet on his fridge that said "Look busy - Jesus is coming!". I had to chuckle every time I saw it, because that's the message that can often get through, rather than the grace of God. I can't count the number of "beware of backsliding" messages I heard in the Pentecostal church - many having to do with outward appearances and "doing" the right thing. There seemed to be such a fear of God being somehow incapacitated

 

[Lamb]

I wanted to add that this thread is not saying to Christians TO GO AND SIN. There. That is said. No one is encouraging sin.

 

[psalms 91]

Interesting, another thread withthe same thing just coming at it worded different. Same answer as the other ones Check those threads if you want to see

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Is it? Observe:

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Now, you may not have heard it preached, but it is preached. In isolation.

 

[Albion]

What do you make of that statement? Obviously we cannot BE perfect in the way that the Father is. So what can it mean?

 

[Imalive]

What do you make of that statement? Obviously we cannot BE perfect in the way that the Father is. So what can it mean?

That it is possible when we believe it and die and get raised w Christ and live by faith and go into the promised land.

 

[Imalive]

Be good or you won't get into heaven. Have you heard that one? I've heard it...on plenty of Christian sites. I see people preaching Christ and then turn around and say But if you have to stop sinning or you won't get into heaven. Isn't that a contradiction? Are you relying on Jesus or are you relying on your ability to stop sinning for heaven?

Depends who says it to who. This is normally preached to backsliders who are living in sin and are really in danger.

 

[tango]

Be good or you won't get into heaven. Have you heard that one? I've heard it...on plenty of Christian sites. I see people preaching Christ and then turn around and say But if you have to stop sinning or you won't get into heaven. Isn't that a contradiction? Are you relying on Jesus or are you relying on your ability to stop sinning for heaven?

The trouble with topics like this is that people have a tendency to split into two camps, both with flaws in their reasoning.

If we take the view that once we are saved that's it - the so-called "one and done" approach to salvation, then it follows that all we need to do is "give our lives to Christ" as a one-time change, then we can go back to doing just what we were doing before. That falls foul of all sorts of NT teaching, such as "shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" and "faith without works is dead" and "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and so on.

If we take the view that we have to be good or we won't make it to heaven we fall foul of the whole concept of salvation by grace rather than through works and the notion that we are somehow worthy of a place in heaven thanks to our own good works. This also falls foul of what Paul said about building on the foundation that is Jesus Christ.

If we take the notion that works are evidence of faith, rather than a way of earning a ticket to heaven, we potentially end up in a few thorny places but I think those places are thorny because they are supposed to be thorny, they are supposed to be uncomfortable. If our good works cease, what should we conclude about what is going on in our hearts? Does it mean we have ceased to believe? Why did Paul tell the Corinthians to "examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith" if salvation was as simple as a one-time "accept Jesus Christ" and then just get on and do whatever you want? Clearly there's no need to "examine yourself" if all there is to it is saying a quick prayer.

Of course all this leads into another question, namely whether we can lose our salvation.

 

[Lamb]

Depends who says it to who. This is normally preached to backsliders who are living in sin and are really in danger.

Law and Gospel each have their own place, that is exactly true! It's when people confuse the two and give Law where there should be Gospel that becomes the problem. Right?

 

[NewCreation435]

While it is not ultimately up to me to judge whether or not a person is saved or has a living faith or not. There is scripture to point to the idea that true faith will have works with it.

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:14-17

Even James asked the question "Can such a faith save them?"

 

[Imalive]

While it is not ultimately up to me to judge whether or not a person is saved or has a living faith or not. There is scripture to point to the idea that true faith will have works with it.

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:14-17

Even James asked the question "Can such a faith save them?"

Go in peace, keep warm and well fed. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha that is a horrible thing to say to someone who's hungry. James is funny.

 

[NewCreation435]

Go in peace, keep warm and well fed. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha that is a horrible thing to say to someone who's hungry. James is funny.

Though I can't prove it, I have a feeling he was thinking of specific people or instances.

 

[Lamb]

While it is not ultimately up to me to judge whether or not a person is saved or has a living faith or not. There is scripture to point to the idea that true faith will have works with it.

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. James 2:14-17

Even James asked the question "Can such a faith save them?"

Works isn't what saves though. Works are done because we have the Holy Spirit in us to guide us into doing those things.

But that's not really what this is about. I read so much about people thinking that their elimination of sin from their lives is what is getting them to heaven. But that eliminates Jesus from the equation.

 

[NewCreation435]

Works isn't what saves though. Works are done because we have the Holy Spirit in us to guide us into doing those things.

But that's not really what this is about. I read so much about people thinking that their elimination of sin from their lives is what is getting them to heaven. But that eliminates Jesus from the equation.

It does actually have a lot to do with it. Because even though works won't save you it will be evident if you have faith. I actually don't know anyone who thinks they can eliminate sin from their lives. Rather, I am more likely to hear that God's standards simply aren't that high

 

[Lamb]

It does actually have a lot to do with it. Because even though works won't save you it will be evident if you have faith. I actually don't know anyone who thinks they can eliminate sin from their lives. Rather, I am more likely to hear that God's standards simply aren't that high

So you look to yourself to know you're getting into heaven? Evidence of your own faith is trusting in the Savior. We know that we will do good works because as Christians we can not NOT do them. It's like a fish...he will swim because he's a fish. That verse in James wasn't meant as a gauge for naval gazing. It was meant for people to show love to their neighbors in need. It wasn't meant to say Hey you're saved because of your works. Because works don't save.

But this isn't about works. This is about whether you think not sinning gets you into heaven.

 

[psalms 91]

So you look to yourself to know you're getting into heaven? Evidence of your own faith is trusting in the Savior. We know that we will do good works because as Christians we can not NOT do them. It's like a fish...he will swim because he's a fish. That verse in James wasn't meant as a gauge for naval gazing. It was meant for people to show love to their neighbors in need. It wasn't meant to say Hey you're saved because of your works. Because works don't save.

But this isn't about works. This is about whether you think not sinning gets you into heaven.

I think the bible makes clear that certain sins wont enter heaven, that is not debateable as it is spelled out.

 

[NewCreation435]

So you look to yourself to know you're getting into heaven? Evidence of your own faith is trusting in the Savior. We know that we will do good works because as Christians we can not NOT do them. It's like a fish...he will swim because he's a fish. That verse in James wasn't meant as a gauge for naval gazing. It was meant for people to show love to their neighbors in need. It wasn't meant to say Hey you're saved because of your works. Because works don't save.

But this isn't about works. This is about whether you think not sinning gets you into heaven.

And like I said I don't know anyone who thinks they have gotten rid of their sin

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[psalms 91]

I think avoiding certain sin and doing what 1 John 9-10 tells us will