Little white lies here and there? Sin?

[Andrew]

This concerns me the most and usually with little white lies I try and find some truth that I could put in the response rather than bluntly lie.
For example...
"Do these pants make my butt look big?" lol, yes im thinking of the sleeziest question but how does "honest abe" answer this? Americans might remember that commercial, Abraham's wife asked him that and he just sort of hesitates "ummm well" lol!
...something like that.
Some lies build up and start a whole false persona which is what I try to avoid. I used to lie much often but now I usually speak my mind... "Usually" literally... for I might fib a little when I just cannot make it to a particular event (because im just exhausted) and with a few church members being a bit "pushy" I might say something like "well im going to be out of town with family" which is true because I live out of town and am currently living with my parents lol... God forgive me ...
Yeah I know, I will eventually have to tell them to back off a little but they usually say something smart like "your making excuses and justifying yourself" in a 'humorous' manner no doubt but it pushes me a bit to back off more in the future....
Thoughts? About lying in general? White lies or blunt honesty always?

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[kiwimac]

This concerns me the most and usually with little white lies I try and find some truth that I could put in the response rather than bluntly lie.
For example...
"Do these pants make my butt look big?" lol, yes im thinking of the sleeziest question but how does "honest abe" answer this? Americans might remember that commercial, Abraham's wife asked him that and he just sort of hesitates "ummm well" lol!
...something like that.
Some lies build up and start a whole false persona which is what I try to avoid. I used to lie much often but now I usually speak my mind... "Usually" literally... for I might fib a little when I just cannot make it to a particular event (because im just exhausted) and with a few church members being a bit "pushy" I might say something like "well im going to be out of town with family" which is true because I live out of town and am currently living with my parents lol... God forgive me ...
Yeah I know, I will eventually have to tell them to back off a little but they usually say something smart like "your making excuses and justifying yourself" in a 'humorous' manner no doubt but it pushes me a bit to back off more in the future....
Thoughts? About lying in general? White lies or blunt honesty always?

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Absolute honesty destroys relationships. There are times and places for honesty but also times and places for gently applied dishonesty imo.

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[MennoSota]

Corrie TenBoom talked about herself and her sister dealing with this issue. Corrie's sister refused to lie, even while her family hid Jews during the Nazi occupation. Corrie felt that withholding the truth was shrewd and prudent.
The fascinating thing is that the Bible has a number of accounts where persons of faith were not honest and were blessed for it. Perhaps the most famous is Rahab who lied about the Hebrew spies being in Jericho. She was blessed by God and from her lineage comes the line of David and thus Jesus himself.

 

[Andrew]

Corrie TenBoom talked about herself and her sister dealing with this issue. Corrie's sister refused to lie, even while her family hid Jews during the Nazi occupation. Corrie felt that withholding the truth was shrewd and prudent.
The fascinating thing is that the Bible has a number of accounts where persons of faith were not honest and were blessed for it. Perhaps the most famous is Rahab who lied about the Hebrew spies being in Jericho. She was blessed by God and from her lineage comes the line of David and thus Jesus himself.

I like that, i'll take it lol but I'm not hiding any spies... I think it hides me however in symbolic terms for me, maybe God sees it differently, but I so that I hesitate to "be saved by them" which they seem to pursue, for themselves... for self pleasing and I just try to get around that. The Lord of lords knows me that I mean no obstruction or denial of grace but I do have the mark of God on my forehead and do wish to avoid any man pleasing of any kind. I do need to eventually come clean if it starts interference with me and God. It's only a few people that come off as self proclaimed pillars in the church, i dont like being pushed is all

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[user1234]

*My answer was in re: to the 2nd post, and only dealing with a relationship/marriage.*
*Obviously the bible has cases where God worked things out for His own will. For us looking back into the bible, hindsight is 20/20, and in war, like with Corrie...take each situation prayerfully as they come up, but as a general rule, honesty is the best policy.*


---↓ my two cents worth of seriousness and humor ↓---
I'm thinking if ppl are looking for ways to be dishonest, their relationship is ALREADY in trouble.
It's deceit, and obviously the intent will be to remain deceptive ... in other words, to get away with it.
This little bit will make it easier to do the next time, and maybe the little bit becomes a bit bigger.
And the next time, and so on, and eventually?
If it continues long enough? ...a relationship of lies and deception, and one or both partners filled with contempt, and oddly enough, its often the one doing the lying that also looks at the partner with contempt.

It's a pity, and if the couple are genuine christians, it really shouldnt happen at all. It's easier to make it through or overcome, being honest, than being deceitful.

As far as the first question in the OP goes.....
just answer NO ... It wouldnt be dishonest anyway. .....

Q: Do these pants make my butt look fat?
•NO ... The PANTS?! NO, the PANTS dont make your butt look fat...

(See??? Honesty!)

•NO... Your (fat) butt makes your pants look skinny.
(saying 'fat" is optional)

•NO... Your eyes do.
(And they look beautiful today, dear)

•NO... But they do make your breasts look a bit small.
(nm, strike that one)

•NO...Of course not...we're Word of Faith!

how about
•YES... And I love it!

•YES... Now hurry, take them off!

•NOT SURE... Take them off so I can compare it without them.

•IT DEPENDS... Do you WANT it to look fat?

•YES. I mean NO. I mean SOMETIMES ... Only when you wear them... I mean ... ... Did I tell you your eyes look beautiful today? ... Is this a trick question? Where's the cameras? ... Tell me what you want me to say, dear. ... Help! WWJD?

 

[Andrew]

*My answer was in re: to the 2nd post, and only dealing with a relationship/marriage.*
*Obviously the bible has cases where God worked things out for His own will. For us looking back into the bible, hindsight is 20/20, and in war, like with Corrie...take each situation prayerfully as they come up, but as a general rule, honesty is the best policy.*


---↓ my two cents worth of seriousness and humor ↓---
I'm thinking if ppl are looking for ways to be dishonest, their relationship is ALREADY in trouble.
It's deceit, and obviously the intent will be to remain deceptive ... in other words, to get away with it.
This little bit will make it easier to do the next time, and maybe the little bit becomes a bit bigger.
And the next time, and so on, and eventually?
If it continues long enough? ...a relationship of lies and deception, and one or both partners filled with contempt, and oddly enough, its often the one doing the lying that also looks at the partner with contempt.

It's a pity, and if the couple are genuine christians, it really shouldnt happen at all. It's easier to make it through or overcome, being honest, than being deceitful.

As far as the first question in the OP goes.....
just answer NO ... It wouldnt be dishonest anyway. .....

Q: Do these pants make my butt look fat?
•NO ... The PANTS?! NO, the PANTS dont make your butt look fat...

(See??? Honesty!)

•NO... Your (fat) butt makes your pants look skinny.
(saying 'fat" is optional)

•NO... Your eyes do.
(And they look beautiful today, dear)

•NO... But they do make your breasts look a bit small.
(nm, strike that one)

•NO...Of course not...we're Word of Faith!

how about
•YES... And I love it!

•YES... Now hurry, take them off!

•NOT SURE... Take them off so I can compare it without them.

•IT DEPENDS... Do you WANT it to look fat?

•YES. I mean NO. I mean SOMETIMES ... Only when you wear them... I mean ... ... Did I tell you your eyes look beautiful today? ... Is this a trick question? Where's the cameras? ... Tell me what you want me to say, dear. ... Help! WWJD?

Jesus would say something like "a man went to his vineyard to pluck grapes for the wine press... " and then say the smartest thing humanly possible to have it make both literal and symbolic sense for the billions of future Christians to aid solving the calamity lol but pants weren't around back then.

But I see what you are saying for "relationships", if ever you feel like you need an "escape" from him/her without being honest, its most likely a good sign to separate.

As for everyday association, there is no way possible to tell the actual truth all the time unless you are Jesus and you are not, which is why he is perfect and we are not, which is why we are saved through him and not by works but are to become 'His' worksmen by grace and fellowship with him.... it just got deep I know!

God bless and thank you for the helpful answers!



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[Imalive]

If the modern day Gestapo wants to take your kids from you for no reason at all I believe you may lie.

 

[Imalive]

Absolute honesty destroys relationships. There are times and places for honesty but also times and places for gently applied dishonesty imo.

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No why. If you have to lie you can better not get a relationship w that person.
But if you want em to tell the truth dont get mad and upset if they do.
You don't always have to tell ppl the truth though. You can just stay quiet if they don't ask.
All the politeness lies I hate anyway or faking that something is nice. Thats why ppl from other countries who visit think Dutch are rude.

 

[Andrew]

No why. If you have to lie you can better not get a relationship w that person.
But if you want em to tell the truth dont get mad and upset if they do.

"Tell me the truth honey and I promise I wont break this bottle and stab your face with the shards"..... I'll pass on that, girls say that all the time and its a lie, a dangerous one too, "I was just out with the my coworkers after work but did not go to the new strip bar that opened up across the street I promise" (obviously a sinful coupling let em have at it)
But yeah if people can control their temple which Christians should take pride in doing, then maybe the outcome would bring them closer.

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[Imalive]

https://stuffdutchpeoplelike.com/2011/05/28/dutch-directness/

 

[Imalive]

-

 

[Lamb]

This concerns me the most and usually with little white lies I try and find some truth that I could put in the response rather than bluntly lie.
For example...
"Do these pants make my butt look big?" lol, yes im thinking of the sleeziest question but how does "honest abe" answer this? Americans might remember that commercial, Abraham's wife asked him that and he just sort of hesitates "ummm well" lol!
...something like that.
Some lies build up and start a whole false persona which is what I try to avoid. I used to lie much often but now I usually speak my mind... "Usually" literally... for I might fib a little when I just cannot make it to a particular event (because im just exhausted) and with a few church members being a bit "pushy" I might say something like "well im going to be out of town with family" which is true because I live out of town and am currently living with my parents lol... God forgive me ...
Yeah I know, I will eventually have to tell them to back off a little but they usually say something smart like "your making excuses and justifying yourself" in a 'humorous' manner no doubt but it pushes me a bit to back off more in the future....
Thoughts? About lying in general? White lies or blunt honesty always?

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There are ways to answer people without resorting to a lie but you don't have to tell them exactly what you're thinking either.

"Do these pants make my butt look big?"
Answer: I like the other pants you have better because the shape and color compliment you.
OR
Answer: Try on another pair and let's compare the two and see which ones work better for your figure.

When asked to an event that you don't want to attend you DON'T owe anyone an explanation. Seriously. You do not. All you have to say is, "I'm not going to make it." Then ask a question to detract and mostly the question should be aimed at them because people like to answer questions about themselves. Ask if they've been to the event in the past. Ask what dish they're bringing if it's a pot luck.

 

[Imalive]

There are ways to answer people without resorting to a lie but you don't have to tell them exactly what you're thinking either.

"Do these pants make my butt look big?"
Answer: I like the other pants you have better because the shape and color compliment you.
OR
Answer: Try on another pair and let's compare the two and see which ones work better for your figure.

When asked to an event that you don't want to attend you DON'T owe anyone an explanation. Seriously. You do not. All you have to say is, "I'm not going to make it." Then ask a question to detract and mostly the question should be aimed at them because people like to answer questions about themselves. Ask if they've been to the event in the past. Ask what dish they're bringing if it's a pot luck.

LOL! Fabulous!
Some don't take that. My son has a friend who absolutely wants to play and sometimes he doesn't want to and tells him in a nice way. Why not? And then he keeps going on. He has to come play. Now he just says: No. I don't want to today. First time the kid was baffled but now he's used to it. One day it's fine. Other day not. He told me he learned it from another kid who said that to him. No hard feelings. Today I just wanna do something else. LOL get used to it.

 

[Imalive]

https://youtu.be/iK2OakMoW_c

 

[tango]

I think some people take the idea of "thou shalt not lie" far too literally, especially when earlier translations put it as "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor", which is a very different proposition. If a matter was established "by the mouths of two or three witnesses" and one of those was bearing false witness then someone could be convicted for something they didn't do, based on a lie. That's a very different proposition to the kind of white lies that sometimes merely oil the wheels of modern relationships, especially business relationships.

If my wife asks me if a pair of pants makes her butt look big it's the classic situation that comedians use as a baseline for much of their material. But if she asks me that question it means one of two things - either she wants affirmation that the pants look good on her, or she wants to be sure she isn't going out looking like her butt has its own ZIP code. Telling her a parable isn't going to help the situation here, simply because whatever hypotheticals might come out of the parable what she wants is an answer rather than a story that may contain an answer. If the pants look good on her the answer is easy but if they do not the answer is more tricky because I don't want her going out in something that doesn't look good any more than she wants to go out, but I don't want to answer in a way that is blunt and hurtful to her.

On the other hand if my boss at work asks a question like "do you like me", when I'm fearful about keeping my job, I see no reason to tell him that the truth is I loathe him and dread coming into work and having to deal with him. I don't have to be his best friend but also don't see the harm in wording an answer that doesn't necessarily claim I think he's a great guy but doesn't tell him just how much I hate working for him. Chances are I can come up with at least something positive about working there, even if it is something of a deflection of the question.

As Lammchen said earlier if someone invites you to an event and you don't plan to go, whether through disinclination or diary clashes, you aren't obligated to give them a reason at all. Sometimes we can get so caught up in making up a reason why we can't go to something we get tied up in knots and before long we've painted ourselves into a corner and find that the fancy excuses we offered have been countered and we go when we didn't want to. That's much like the people who make up a reason why they aren't buying something when dealing with a salesman - a good salesman is looking for lines like "I would buy, but..." because whatever follows the "but" is an opportunity to address the customer's concern. For as long as you're talking to the salesman you are a live prospect and he will address your objections. If you say straight "I don't want it", or walk away, the discussion ends. If you make up one excuse after another after another there's a good chance you'll either feel bad because the salesman addressed all your made-up concerns and you walked away having wasted his time, or you get home having bought something you didn't want because your made up excuse fell apart.

I think the most comical interpretation of the whole concept of lying being a sin was a guy on a forum somewhere, I forget where, who genuinely seemed to believe that actors were sinning when they played a character. I can just imagine the likes of Sean Connery playing James Bond, who in turn was pretending to be something other than a British spy, and the monologue that went along the lines of "I'm Viktor Romanov come to inspect the reactors. Actually I'm not, I'm James Bond and I'm a British spy. Scratch that, I'm Sean Connery, a Scottish actor, playing a British spy trying to infiltrate a Russian nuclear reactor that doesn't exist because it's the set of a movie I'm recording". Not sure how long the movie industry would last...

 

[NewCreation435]

This concerns me the most and usually with little white lies I try and find some truth that I could put in the response rather than bluntly lie.
For example...
"Do these pants make my butt look big?" lol, yes im thinking of the sleeziest question but how does "honest abe" answer this? Americans might remember that commercial, Abraham's wife asked him that and he just sort of hesitates "ummm well" lol!
...something like that.
Some lies build up and start a whole false persona which is what I try to avoid. I used to lie much often but now I usually speak my mind... "Usually" literally... for I might fib a little when I just cannot make it to a particular event (because im just exhausted) and with a few church members being a bit "pushy" I might say something like "well im going to be out of town with family" which is true because I live out of town and am currently living with my parents lol... God forgive me ...
Yeah I know, I will eventually have to tell them to back off a little but they usually say something smart like "your making excuses and justifying yourself" in a 'humorous' manner no doubt but it pushes me a bit to back off more in the future....
Thoughts? About lying in general? White lies or blunt honesty always?

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Lying really bothers me. It comes down to being a person of integrity and people being able to trust you and your word. I had a coworker who I supervise lie to me yesterday and I'm still mad about it.

 

[user1234]

Gotta tell ya, this internet chat stuff is really eye-opening ... I keep finding more and more how ppl not only think its ok to lie, but that its normal and almost to be expected.

And DHoffman (Hi, btw, good thread) what you stated here ↓ I am a little shocked by your ease with this whole idea where you said: ↓
→But I see what you are saying for "relationships", if ever you feel like you need an "escape" from him/her without being honest, its most likely a good sign to separate.←

???
Unless you're talking about danger...getting out for safety reasons...?
'''Feeling' a need to 'escape' from a person''?
''Without being honest''? Hmmm
Are we talking about christians?
In a relationship/marriage?

''A good sign to separate''?
Thats IT?! That easy?! Just a feeling to 'escape' so be a liar and just leave?!

I dont think youve thought this through, DH, or else I'd need to hear more details of the scenario before I can agree...and it better be a darn good reason for the guy or gal to do that, as a christian, imo, not just a felt need to escape.

Or the idea of dont say anything and just leave the persons heart splattered on the road bc you 'feel a need to escape'? Say it aint so.

This just sounds to me like no diff than the world, the flesh, and/or the devil talking.
(I dont mean you, DH, I just mean the general sentiment)
idk, I thought christians were supposed to be diff.

I'm finding more cold-heartededness, cut-throat, lying, cheating, backstabbing, abandonment, etc, and making excuses for it, ... it's no wonder the world is in such a mess if the christian looks and acts just like it. (And I know, Ive been guilty of it, including barstool evangelism, Im not condemning anyone. But shame on me)

Ok, I get that we're not perfect...I compete with Paul in being 'chief among sinners' , but it's not something Im proud of, not a contest I want to win.

I thought we were supposed to be being changed, conformed into the image of Christ .... (thats what predestination means, btw, not God pre-picked some to go to heaven, and the rest can rot in hell, thats a mis-understanding/-interpretation of the text) but ANYway...

The point is, all this acceptance/approval of lying, cheating, escapism ... 'Dishonesty', as was said ... I just get taken aback the more I hear about/experience it from christians.

And I understand diff ppl have diff ways of seeing things. I know theres ppl that will say 'Wull Im an American, or Im a Mexican, whatever, this is how we do things, and the rest of the world better like it.

Well, no... I'm an American, and I know lots of them, and we dont ALL do that, and as christians, we're to be called out of the world, ... IN, yes, but not OF.
(that doesnt mean we're 'superior'... we're all sinners, saved by grace, if we're saved)

But SALT and LIGHT, right? Shouldnt that mean that dishonesty, ... lies, deceit, manipulation, etc, ... is not how we want to be?

Hi, Im TimBulu...Im from the YumNoshi tribe. We're cannibals. You think YOU love neighbor?
We love neighbor so much, we EAT neighbor.

•Not anymore, TimBulu ... You're a christian now...we dont do that anymore.

BUT its my culture, we ALWAYS do that....Come on, get in the pot.

•Not any more. You're a christian now, Tim, christians shouldnt murder ppl, and we shouldnt bite and devour each other, either, and no, I am not climbing in that pot...just stop it.
•And stop poking me for tender spots.
•And stop gnawing on my leg.
•And put down that SALT shaker, Timmy, that's NOT what it means!

oke: :slap:

 

[user1234]

https://youtu.be/iK2OakMoW_c

LOL ... Tim Hawkins ... He's the best! :spinningsmilie:
'That's The WORST!' :chairfall:

P.S.
My use of the name TimBulu in the other post was purely coincidental, I was unaware of the other Tims video posted at the time, and Management is completely off the hook on this one. Yours, et cetera, me.

Honestly.
No, serious.
Im not kidding.
Really.
I wouldnt lie.
I mean I might, but...
Not about something like THAT.
I wouldnt.
Honest.
That's just not......no.

 

[Andrew]

Gotta tell ya, this internet chat stuff is really eye-opening ... I keep finding more and more how ppl not only think its ok to lie, but that its normal and almost to be expected.

And DHoffman (Hi, btw, good thread) what you stated here ↓ I am a little shocked by your ease with this whole idea where you said: ↓
→But I see what you are saying for "relationships", if ever you feel like you need an "escape" from him/her without being honest, its most likely a good sign to separate.←

???
Unless you're talking about danger...getting out for safety reasons...?
'''Feeling' a need to 'escape' from a person''?
''Without being honest''? Hmmm
Are we talking about christians?
In a relationship/marriage?

''A good sign to separate''?
Thats IT?! That easy?! Just a feeling to 'escape' so be a liar and just leave?!

I dont think youve thought this through, DH, or else I'd need to hear more details of the scenario before I can agree...and it better be a darn good reason for the guy or gal to do that, as a christian, imo, not just a felt need to escape.

Or the idea of dont say anything and just leave the persons heart splattered on the road bc you 'feel a need to escape'? Say it aint so.

This just sounds to me like no diff than the world, the flesh, and/or the devil talking.
(I dont mean you, DH, I just mean the general sentiment)
idk, I thought christians were supposed to be diff.

I'm finding more cold-heartededness, cut-throat, lying, cheating, backstabbing, abandonment, etc, and making excuses for it, ... it's no wonder the world is in such a mess if the christian looks and acts just like it. (And I know, Ive been guilty of it, including barstool evangelism, Im not condemning anyone. But shame on me)

Ok, I get that we're not perfect...I compete with Paul in being 'chief among sinners' , but it's not something Im proud of, not a contest I want to win.

I thought we were supposed to be being changed, conformed into the image of Christ .... (thats what predestination means, btw, not God pre-picked some to go to heaven, and the rest can rot in hell, thats a mis-understanding/-interpretation of the text) but ANYway...

The point is, all this acceptance/approval of lying, cheating, escapism ... 'Dishonesty', as was said ... I just get taken aback the more I hear about/experience it from christians.

And I understand diff ppl have diff ways of seeing things. I know theres ppl that will say 'Wull Im an American, or Im a Mexican, whatever, this is how we do things, and the rest of the world better like it.

Well, no... I'm an American, and I know lots of them, and we dont ALL do that, and as christians, we're to be called out of the world, ... IN, yes, but not OF.
(that doesnt mean we're 'superior'... we're all sinners, saved by grace, if we're saved)

But SALT and LIGHT, right? Shouldnt that mean that dishonesty, ... lies, deceit, manipulation, etc, ... is not how we want to be?

Hi, Im TimBulu...Im from the YumNoshi tribe. We're cannibals. You think YOU love neighbor?
We love neighbor so much, we EAT neighbor.

•Not anymore, TimBulu ... You're a christian now...we dont do that anymore.

BUT its my culture, we ALWAYS do that....Come on, get in the pot.

•Not any more. You're a christian now, Tim, christians shouldnt murder ppl, and we shouldnt bite and devour each other, either, and no, I am not climbing in that pot...just stop it.
•And stop poking me for tender spots.
•And stop gnawing on my leg.
•And put down that SALT shaker, Timmy, that's NOT what it means!

oke: :slap:

I was talking about lying destroys relationships
If one or the other has to constantly lie to his or her partner to get around things they are most likely hiding something or are afraid to confront them.
My friend on Fb just went on a long rant about her boy friend ditching plans to go out drinking and said he was at work.
I know how she is too and she can be soo pushy that you just cant get around it unless you are in an accident lol if you tell her "oh im actually going to go out with the boys..." she will blow up even though she claims "if he would have told me I would have been okay with that" .... yeah right.
They aren't Christians Snerfle, just saying, for them they should separate.... maybe they will learn better when they find Jesus

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[user1234]

I was talking about lying destroys relationships
If one or the other has to constantly lie to his or her partner to get around things they are most likely hiding something or are afraid to confront them.
My friend on Fb just went on a long rant about her boy friend ditching plans to go out drinking and said he was at work.
I know how she is too and she can be soo pushy that you just cant get around it unless you are in an accident lol if you tell her "oh im actually going to go out with the boys..." she will blow up even though she claims "if he would have told me I would have been okay with that" .... yeah right.
They aren't Christians Snerfle, just saying, for them they should separate.... maybe they will learn better when they find Jesus

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Got ya, brother...
Not being christians makes all the diff in the world.
Yes totally diff situation.
And yes, i guess i really took a more narrow view in my reply than what you were saying in the OP.
I was really zeroing in on
A: Christian (or at least Professing christians)
B: Relationship, as in Male/Female Bf/Gf ... or Husband/Wife .... Christian relationship.

That's where Im talking about hearing about/experiencing deceit, dishonesty, being tossed about almost non-chalantly these days that is heartbreaking and shouldnt be in a christians' walk.
I'm amazed how much Hebrews13:1 can apply in so many diff situations that arise.

And elsewhere it says that ppl would say 'See the love they have for one another'.

Last I checked, dishonesty, deceit, rejection and excommunication didnt fit with that.

But outside of being saved?
No, youre right, you cant really expect biblical exhortations on those things to be heeded by unbelievers, even though they could/should be principals for all of us.

God gives us things that apply to help us, bc He cares for us and knows whats best for us...not to make us miserable.
I think alot of times we bring misery when we try to do it our way instead if trusting Him.
Im guilty of it sometimes (SOMEtimes? lol).... But when you see the success rate, its like ... No thanks, best to go with Proverbs3:5-6. Good going. :thumbsup: