Mathew 3:11

[Andrew]

"Throw him the fire" is a term coworkers often express when inducting a new trainee into the field of work.

DEFINITION of 'Baptism by Fire' A phrase originating from Europe that describes an employee that is learning something the hard way, like being immersed in their field of employment.*Baptism by fire*has its roots in battle terminology, describing a soldier's first time in battle. -investopidia (first website by google in specification to a google search on "baptism by fire")

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." -Mathew 3:11

What are your devote beliefs on this particular verse in scripture?
I have faith in knowing what it means to me personally as likewise we all should, but on a more public term how would you explain this verse to a babe in Christ or even a nonbeliever?

I am in grace for secular opinions (other than my own) and wish to resonate with a common understanding if there be any.
Thank you


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[IACOBVS]

"Throw him the fire" is a term coworkers often express when inducting a new trainee into the field of work.

DEFINITION of 'Baptism by Fire' A phrase originating from Europe that describes an employee that is learning something the hard way, like being immersed in their field of employment.*Baptism by fire*has its roots in battle terminology, describing a soldier's first time in battle. -investopidia (first website by google in specification to a google search on "baptism by fire")

"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." -Mathew 3:11

What are your devote beliefs on this particular verse in scripture?
I have faith in knowing what it means to me personally as likewise we all should, but on a more public term how would you explain this verse to a babe in Christ or even a nonbeliever?

I am in grace for secular opinions (other than my own) and wish to resonate with a common understanding if there be any.
Thank you


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I have never heard that phrase used regarding new employees. I don't know what strange work environments you've been involved in.
Why would this passage of Holy Scripture be of concern to a new convert anyway? It is rather obscure.
A lot of the recent posts on here really hurt my head. Just sayin'.

 

[Andrew]

I have never heard that phrase used regarding new employees. I don't know what strange work environments you've been involved in.
Why would this passage of Holy Scripture be of concern to a new convert anyway? It is rather obscure.
A lot of the recent posts on here really hurt my head. Just sayin'.

What then can YOU make out of this scripture?
I live in Texas and work at a cabinet factory, believe me this term is not used loosely, more people leave than stay and we often refer to the new employees as "throwing them in the fire" because it can certainly seem that way. A year ago I would describe my job as pure hell because it just felt like I was burning alive lol it is a sweatshop but now I have learned to live in the moment of Christ and not let the flames burn me, not just of work but of life in general.
I am asking tho about the scripture and how you make sense of "baptism by fire"... What do YOU believe it means?

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[IACOBVS]

What then can YOU make out of this scripture?
I live in Texas and work at a cabinet factory, believe me this term is not used loosely, more people leave than stay and we often refer to the new employees as "throwing them in the fire" because it can certainly seem that way. A year ago I would describe my job as pure hell because it just felt like I was burning alive lol it is a sweatshop but now I have learned to live in the moment of Christ and not let the flames burn me, not just of work but of life in general.
I am asking tho about the scripture and how you make sense of "baptism by fire"... What do YOU believe it means?

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Ugh! If that is how you look at Holy Scripture, I'm done. It's craziness.

 

[atpollard]

Ugh! If that is how you look at Holy Scripture, I'm done. It's craziness.

Matthew 3:11 was fulfilled in Acts 2 (literally) and is fulfilled every time the Holy Sprit ignites the fire of faith in the heart of a new Christian that believes in Jesus Christ.

 

[atpollard]

Typologically, fire is used throughout scripture to signify the burning away of sin and the purification by God.

 

[MennoSota]

Matthew explains what the fire is in the context of the passage.
Matthew 3:7-12
[7]But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to watch him baptize, he denounced them. “You brood of snakes!” he exclaimed. “Who warned you to flee God’s coming wrath?
[8]Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God.
[9]Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones.
[10]Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.
[11]“I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
[12]He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

When John sees the Pharisees and Sadducees he may be thinking of Amos 5 and the Day of the Lord. The great judgment that Amos wrote about where God's justice would role like thunder.
This is alluded to in verse 10 where the axe is about to fall and God will cast people into the fire of His eternal judgment.
Contrast this with God's amazing grace whereby some will be baptized (immersed) with the Holy Spirit while the others will be immersed in fire (hell).
In verse 12, Matthew confirms that this is the case. God chooses some unto salvation and others unto damnation.
The explanation is right there in the passage for you, DHoffman.
The fact that you only look at one verse (a couple of sentences) makes my ongoing point that context matters when we look at God’s word. These sentences are not to be interpreted in a vacuum.

 

[MennoSota]

Matthew 3:11 was fulfilled in Acts 2 (literally) and is fulfilled every time the Holy Sprit ignites the fire of faith in the heart of a new Christian that believes in Jesus Christ.

No, that is not what the fire of Matthew 3:11 is referring to.

 

[Andrew]

Ugh! If that is how you look at Holy Scripture, I'm done. It's craziness.

Thats not fair. I am merely giving an example of a common day work expression to accommodate my question.
I believe in a "heavier than thou" explanation, we are in the same boat brother... if you shake one end you're gonna rock the other, same page just sayin...

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[Andrew]

Matthew explains what the fire is in the context of the passage.
Matthew 3:7-12
[7]But when he saw many Pharisees and Sadducees coming to watch him baptize, he denounced them. “You brood of snakes!” he exclaimed. “Who warned you to flee God’s coming wrath?
[8]Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God.
[9]Don’t just say to each other, ‘We’re safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.’ That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones.
[10]Even now the ax of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.
[11]“I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am—so much greater that I’m not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
[12]He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

When John sees the Pharisees and Sadducees he may be thinking of Amos 5 and the Day of the Lord. The great judgment that Amos wrote about where God's justice would role like thunder.
This is alluded to in verse 10 where the axe is about to fall and God will cast people into the fire of His eternal judgment.
Contrast this with God's amazing grace whereby some will be baptized (immersed) with the Holy Spirit while the others will be immersed in fire (hell).
In verse 12, Matthew confirms that this is the case. God chooses some unto salvation and others unto damnation.
The explanation is right there in the passage for you, DHoffman.
The fact that you only look at one verse (a couple of sentences) makes my ongoing point that context matters when we look at God’s word. These sentences are not to be interpreted in a vacuum.

Apply this to the common day

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[MoreCoffee]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Matthew 3:11

Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear - The word translated here as shoes has a signification different from what it has in our language. At first, in order to keep the feet from the sharp stones or the burning sand, small pieces of wood were fastened to the soles of the feet, called sandals. Leather, or skins of beasts dressed, afterward were used. The foot was not covered at all, but the sandal, or piece of leather or wood, was bound by thongs. The people put off these when they enter a house, and put them on when they leave it. To unloose and bind on sandals, on such occasions, was formerly the business of the lowest servants. The expression in this place, therefore, denotes great humility, and John says that he was nor worthy to be the servant of him who should come after him.

Shall baptize you - Shall send upon you the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is frequently represented as being poured out upon his people, Pro 1:23; Isa 44:3; Joe 2:28-29; Act 2:17-18. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same, therefore, as the sending of his influences to convert, purify, and guide the soul.

The Holy Ghost - The third person of the adorable Trinity, whose office it is to enlighten, renew, sanctify, and comfort the soul He was promised by the Saviour to convince of sin, Joh 16:8; to enlighten or teach the disciples, Joh 14:26; Joh 16:13; to comfort them in the absence of the Savior, Joh 14:18; Joh 16:7; to change the heart. Tit 3:5. To be baptized with the Holy Spirit means that the Messiah would send upon the world a far more powerful and mighty influence than had attended the preaching of John. Many more would be converted. A mighty change would take place. His ministry would not affect the external life only, but the heart. the motives, the soul; and would produce rapid and permanent changes in the lives of people. See Act 2:17-18.

With fire - This expression has been variously understood. Some have supposed that John refers to the afflictions and persecutions with which men would be tried under the Gospel; others, that the word fire means judgment or wrath. According to this latter interpretation, the meaning is that he would baptize a portion of mankind - those who were willing to be his followers - with the Holy Spirit, but the rest of mankind - the wicked - with fire; that is, with judgment and wrath. Fire is a symbol of vengeance. See Isa 5:24; Isa 61:2; Isa 66:24. If this is the meaning, as seems to be probable, then John says that the ministry of the Messiah would be far more powerful than his was. It would be more searching and testing; and they who were not suited to abide the test would be cast into eternal fire. Others have supposed, however, that by fire, here, John intends to express the idea that the preaching of the Messiah would be refining, powerful, purifying, as fire is sometimes an emblem of purity, Mal 3:2. It is difficult to ascertain the precise meaning further than that his ministry would be very trying, purifying, searching. Multitudes would be converted; and those who were not true penitents would not be able to abide the trial, and would be driven away.​

 

[MennoSota]

Apply this to the common day

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I did.
God chooses to save some from the immersing flames of hell while immersing some in the Spirit.
DHoffman, it's right there in the passage as plain as day.
What John the Baptist stated is still taking place because the Day of the Lord has not yet happened. The wheat is being separated from the tares by God's good ordinance.

 

[MennoSota]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Matthew 3:11

Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear - The word translated here as shoes has a signification different from what it has in our language. At first, in order to keep the feet from the sharp stones or the burning sand, small pieces of wood were fastened to the soles of the feet, called sandals. Leather, or skins of beasts dressed, afterward were used. The foot was not covered at all, but the sandal, or piece of leather or wood, was bound by thongs. The people put off these when they enter a house, and put them on when they leave it. To unloose and bind on sandals, on such occasions, was formerly the business of the lowest servants. The expression in this place, therefore, denotes great humility, and John says that he was nor worthy to be the servant of him who should come after him.

Shall baptize you - Shall send upon you the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is frequently represented as being poured out upon his people, Pro 1:23; Isa 44:3; Joe 2:28-29; Act 2:17-18. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same, therefore, as the sending of his influences to convert, purify, and guide the soul.

The Holy Ghost - The third person of the adorable Trinity, whose office it is to enlighten, renew, sanctify, and comfort the soul He was promised by the Saviour to convince of sin, Joh 16:8; to enlighten or teach the disciples, Joh 14:26; Joh 16:13; to comfort them in the absence of the Savior, Joh 14:18; Joh 16:7; to change the heart. Tit 3:5. To be baptized with the Holy Spirit means that the Messiah would send upon the world a far more powerful and mighty influence than had attended the preaching of John. Many more would be converted. A mighty change would take place. His ministry would not affect the external life only, but the heart. the motives, the soul; and would produce rapid and permanent changes in the lives of people. See Act 2:17-18.

With fire - This expression has been variously understood. Some have supposed that John refers to the afflictions and persecutions with which men would be tried under the Gospel; others, that the word fire means judgment or wrath. According to this latter interpretation, the meaning is that he would baptize a portion of mankind - those who were willing to be his followers - with the Holy Spirit, but the rest of mankind - the wicked - with fire; that is, with judgment and wrath. Fire is a symbol of vengeance. See Isa 5:24; Isa 61:2; Isa 66:24. If this is the meaning, as seems to be probable, then John says that the ministry of the Messiah would be far more powerful than his was. It would be more searching and testing; and they who were not suited to abide the test would be cast into eternal fire. Others have supposed, however, that by fire, here, John intends to express the idea that the preaching of the Messiah would be refining, powerful, purifying, as fire is sometimes an emblem of purity, Mal 3:2. It is difficult to ascertain the precise meaning further than that his ministry would be very trying, purifying, searching. Multitudes would be converted; and those who were not true penitents would not be able to abide the trial, and would be driven away.​

Do you ever think for yourself or must you always find someone else to tell you what to think? I find your fixation on Albert Barnes quite fascinating.
After all your pasting of Barnes commentary, what does the text mean, MC. Please use your own words.

 

[Andrew]

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Matthew 3:11

Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear - The word translated here as shoes has a signification different from what it has in our language. At first, in order to keep the feet from the sharp stones or the burning sand, small pieces of wood were fastened to the soles of the feet, called sandals. Leather, or skins of beasts dressed, afterward were used. The foot was not covered at all, but the sandal, or piece of leather or wood, was bound by thongs. The people put off these when they enter a house, and put them on when they leave it. To unloose and bind on sandals, on such occasions, was formerly the business of the lowest servants. The expression in this place, therefore, denotes great humility, and John says that he was nor worthy to be the servant of him who should come after him.

Shall baptize you - Shall send upon you the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is frequently represented as being poured out upon his people, Pro 1:23; Isa 44:3; Joe 2:28-29; Act 2:17-18. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same, therefore, as the sending of his influences to convert, purify, and guide the soul.

The Holy Ghost - The third person of the adorable Trinity, whose office it is to enlighten, renew, sanctify, and comfort the soul He was promised by the Saviour to convince of sin, Joh 16:8; to enlighten or teach the disciples, Joh 14:26; Joh 16:13; to comfort them in the absence of the Savior, Joh 14:18; Joh 16:7; to change the heart. Tit 3:5. To be baptized with the Holy Spirit means that the Messiah would send upon the world a far more powerful and mighty influence than had attended the preaching of John. Many more would be converted. A mighty change would take place. His ministry would not affect the external life only, but the heart. the motives, the soul; and would produce rapid and permanent changes in the lives of people. See Act 2:17-18.

With fire - This expression has been variously understood. Some have supposed that John refers to the afflictions and persecutions with which men would be tried under the Gospel; others, that the word fire means judgment or wrath. According to this latter interpretation, the meaning is that he would baptize a portion of mankind - those who were willing to be his followers - with the Holy Spirit, but the rest of mankind - the wicked - with fire; that is, with judgment and wrath. Fire is a symbol of vengeance. See Isa 5:24; Isa 61:2; Isa 66:24. If this is the meaning, as seems to be probable, then John says that the ministry of the Messiah would be far more powerful than his was. It would be more searching and testing; and they who were not suited to abide the test would be cast into eternal fire. Others have supposed, however, that by fire, here, John intends to express the idea that the preaching of the Messiah would be refining, powerful, purifying, as fire is sometimes an emblem of purity, Mal 3:2. It is difficult to ascertain the precise meaning further than that his ministry would be very trying, purifying, searching. Multitudes would be converted; and those who were not true penitents would not be able to abide the trial, and would be driven away.​

Come on Patrick, (.."yeah Patrick") this is obviously a thread about how "work" is a complete waste of time and devotion to our Lord and savior and thus a part of fire and hell Patrick

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you ever think for yourself or must you always find someone else to tell you what to think? I find your fixation on Albert Barnes quite fascinating.
After all your pasting of Barnes commentary, what does the text mean, MC. Please use your own words.

Albert Barnes does a good job most of the time. His comments on this verse are interesting. They offer an alternative to the stock-standard "it was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost with baptism in Spirit and tongues of fire". And please [MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION] do not pretend that your views are original with you. Even if you never were taught what you say it is certain that others before you have thought as you do now.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Come on Patrick, (.."yeah Patrick") this is obviously a thread about how "work" is a complete waste of time and devotion to our Lord and savior and thus a part of fire and hell Patrick

There's no escaping the voice of Patrick

 

[atpollard]

No, that is not what the fire of Matthew 3:11 is referring to.

Yes and no.

Baptize you with the Holy Spirit: This is the promised out-pouring of the Spirit promised with the New Covenant (Ezekiel 37:14).

ii. And fire: To baptize with fire means to bring the fires of judgment, which will purify the pure, but destroy the wicked like chaff. Chaff is the worthless residue of a wheat stalk after the kernel of grain has been removed. These proud and unrepentant leaders were just as useless to God. “Purification by fire was also a prophetic hope (Isaiah 4:4; Zechariah 13:9; Malachi 3:2; cf. Isaiah 1:25). John therefore predicts a real cleansing, in contrast with his own merely outward token.” (France)

iii. “A winnowing fork tossed both unto the air. The wind blew the chaff away, and the heavier grain fell to be gathered up from the ground. The scattered chaff was swept up and burned and the threshing floor cleared.” (Carson)

iv. The Jewish leaders thought that the Messiah would come with judgment, but only against Israel’s enemies. They were blind in their self-righteous confidence that only others needed to get right with God. Many today have the same idea. “John the Baptist is sadly needed to-day. Much of what we call Christianity is but christianized heathenism…we need that John the Baptist should come with his stern words about the axe, the winnowing-fan, and the fire. Nothing less will avail to prepare the way for a new coming of Christ.” (Meyer)

While the primary reference is indeed the judgement/destruction of evil, there is a secondary function of purifying that which is pure. It was not for no reason that the disciples were instructed to remain in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came upon them in power. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that we need to walk the Christian journey and it is the fire of purification that we need to transform the old man into the image of Christ. Fire is more than punishment, it also purifies.

As believers, we require both, the cleansing of the Holy Spirit and the refining fire of God to burn away the old man. So I believe that the primary reference of Matthew 3:11 is the fire of judgement on Israel, but a valid secondary reference is the refining of believers and the empowering of New Men for the work of God ... starting at Pentecost.

 

[MennoSota]

Albert Barnes does a good job most of the time. His comments on this verse are interesting. They offer an alternative to the stock-standard "it was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost with baptism in Spirit and tongues of fire". And please [MENTION=394]MennoSota[/MENTION] do not pretend that your views are original with you. Even if you never were taught what you say it is certain that others before you have thought as you do now.

I don't pretend my views are original. In fact, Barnes touches on them in his commentary.
What I find interesting is that you don't state anything yourself. You just copy and paste Barnes. Why not copy and paste Gill, MacArthur, Sproul, or Pope Francis? Any person can copy and paste. I want to know which position you take.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't pretend my views are original. In fact, Barnes touches on them in his commentary.
What I find interesting is that you don't state anything yourself. You just copy and paste Barnes. Why not copy and paste Gill, MacArthur, Sproul, or Pope Francis? Any person can copy and paste. I want to know which position you take.

Because John Gill does not do a good job as often as Albert Barnes does and John MacArthur represents a fringe element in USA evangelicalism, and R C Sproul is not interesting to me for all sorts of reasons. Pope Francis may have commented on Matthew 3:11 but I have not see his comments (if they exist) so I do not have them to cut and paste for you so that you can rail against them.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes and no.



While the primary reference is indeed the judgement/destruction of evil, there is a secondary function of purifying that which is pure. It was not for no reason that the disciples were instructed to remain in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came upon them in power. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that we need to walk the Christian journey and it is the fire of purification that we need to transform the old man into the image of Christ. Fire is more than punishment, it also purifies.

As believers, we require both, the cleansing of the Holy Spirit and the refining fire of God to burn away the old man. So I believe that the primary reference of Matthew 3:11 is the fire of judgement on Israel, but a valid secondary reference is the refining of believers and the empowering of New Men for the work of God ... starting at Pentecost.

These are all nice thoughts, but Matthew 3 doesn't teach it. The context is right in front of you. No need to make up anything that isn't there. Let Acts 2 speak for itself.