The washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit

[MoreCoffee]

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

Cambridge Bible Commentary

Titus 3:5

not by works of righteousness] The exact grammatical form is rendered by not by virtue of works, works in righteousness which we did. We should read the neut. accus. of the relative with the best authorities, rather than the genitive here. Bp Wordsworth well explains the reason of the clause: that when those false teachers were asked what was their ground of hope of salvation, they would reply The works wrought in righteousness which we did; but St Paul would answer Gods mercy.

he saved us] Vulg. salvos nos fecit. Compare the aorist tenses in Col 2:13-15. Bp Lightfoot thus brings out the force (Revision of N.T. p. 85): St Paul regards this change from sin to righteousness, from bondage to freedom, from death to life, as summed up in one definite act of the past; potentially to ail men in our Lords Passion and Resurrection, actually to each individual man when he accepts Christ, is baptized into Christ. It is the definiteness, the absoluteness of this change, considered as a historical crisis, which forms the central idea of St Pauls teaching, and which the aorist marks. See also note on 1Ti 2:4.

by the washing of regeneration] Properly through the washing or through the laver; the preposition expresses the channel or means through which; the washing or laver of regeneration is evidently one phrase for the sacrament of Holy Baptism. The genitive marks the attribute or inseparable accompaniments, Winer § 30 2 b, who quotes Mar 1:4, repentance-baptism. Cf. Col 1:22, his flesh-body, i.e. His material, natural body, distinguished from the mystical body before mentioned. Cf. also the fire of testing, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles xvi. 5.

Should we render here washing or laver? It has been usual among English commentators as Wordsw., Alf., Conybeare, Ellicott, to render laver, and to understand the baptismal font, on the ground that the Greek word means always a vessel or pool in which washing takes place. So no doubt the form in tron properly signifies, as e.g. arotron a plough, alabastron, an ointment-bottle. But classical usage is in the plural a bath, Hom. Il. xviii. 489, Ag. 1080; in the sing, the act of washing, Hes. Op. 755, expiatory libations, Soph. El. 84, water for washing,Col. 1599; Aristoph. Lys. 378. The Septuagint usage is only in the sing., Jer 31:25, A man baptized from the death of sin, and again taking hold of it, what does he gain from his washing? Son 4:2 Thy teeth are like a flock of ewes that are newly shorn, which are come up from the washing. The N.T. usage is only in the sing., Eph 5:26, having cleansed it (the Church) by the washing of water with the word, R.V., with margin Gr. laver, and the present passage where R.V. gives washing, with margin Or, laver. According to R.V. rules this inconsistency neutralises its verdict. For in Eph 5:26 it is implied that laver is more exact; in Tit. that washing is more, and laver less likely, as the meaning of the Greek. On the whole the classical usage, the A.V. and R.V. text, support the rendering washing. As to the form of the word, the Greeks may have been at liberty to divert it from its proper meaning, having the kindred form lout for a bath, which, according to analogy, should be a bathing man. Somewhat similarly having ast for a star they used astron for a cluster of stars.

regeneration] Palingenesia is one of the many words which the Gospel found, and, so to speak, glorified. Abp Trench, who admirably draws out the enlargement here, N. T. Syn. 18. The word had been used by the Pythagoreans, in the doctrine of transmigration of souls, for their reappearance in new bodies; by the Stoics for the periodic renovation of the earth in spring; in Cicero it describes his restoration to his dignities and honours after his return from exile; in Josephus the restoration of the Jewish nation after the captivity. The word does not occur in the Septuagint; and in N.T. only here and Mat 19:28. In our Lords words there is evident reference to the new birth of the whole creation (Act 3:21), which shall be when the Son of Man hereafter comes in His glory; while St Pauls washing of regeneration has to do with the new birth not of the whole travailing creation, but of the single soul, which is now evermore finding place.… The palingenesia which Scripture proclaims begins with the microcosmus of single souls; but it does not end there; it does not cease its effectual working till it has embraced the whole macrocosmus of the universe.

But if, as seems most consistent with the whole chapter, and with St Matthews grand aim to paint a present kingdom of the heavens, the reference of Mat 19:28 is to the Church, Catholic and Apostolic, then regeneration in both passages refers to the same act and epoch, when our Lord having overcome the sharpness of death opened the Kingdom of Heaven to all believers, and on the day of Pentecost 3000 souls said to Peter and the rest of the Apostles Brethren, what shall we do? and were baptized by them unto the remission of their sins, and continued stedfastly in the apostles teaching and fellowship. In our Lords words and in St Pauls the setting up of this kingdom, the entrance into it, is life from the dead, a second birth; and Joh 3:3; Joh 3:5 Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God; Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, (summed up in palingenesia Mat 19:28) explains and is explained by Eph 5:25-26, Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it, that he might cleanse it by the washing of water with the word (summed up in palingenesia:, Tit 3:5).

and renewing of the Holy Ghost] R.V. keeps this rendering of A.V. which necessarily makes renewing depend like regeneration on the washing; giving in the margin as a good, but not so good, construction and through renewing, where the government is carried back to the preposition. It is only a question of the naturalness of the order of words, and of the doctrine that renewing or renovation depends on Baptism being expressly stated or left to be inferred. The doctrine itself cannot but be true, as life must precede growth, and growth must depend upon life. Compare Eph 5:26, where the purpose of Christ giving Himself up for the Church is stated to be, first that He might cleanse it by the washing of water through the word (as above), and then that He might sanctify it, till there should be no spot nor blemish; and Rom 12:2, Be ye transformed (present tense) by the renewal of your mind; see that the gradual restoration of the Divine image be ever going forward. No nobler commentary on the phrase has been written than the ancient Veni Creator.​

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

My views of the Sacrament of Holy Baptism are quite simple and can be found between the covers of Concordia, the Book of Lutheran Confessions, also known as the Book of Concord: Baptism introduces the believer into the life of faith and it is a washing of the water with the Word. Here's something from the Smalcald Articles about the subject..

Part III, Article V. Of Baptism.

1] Baptism is nothing else than the Word of God in the water, commanded by His institution, or, as Paul says, a washing in the Word; as also Augustine says: Let the Word come to the element, and it becomes a Sacrament. 2] And for this reason we do not hold with Thomas and the monastic preachers [or Dominicans] who forget the Word (God's institution) and say that God has imparted to the water a spiritual power, which through the water washes away sin. 3] Nor [do we agree] with Scotus and the Barefooted monks [Minorites or Franciscan monks], who teach that, by the assistance of the divine will, Baptism washes away sins, and that this ablution occurs only through the will of God, and by no means through the Word or water.
4] Of the baptism of children we hold that children ought to be baptized. For they belong to the promised redemption made through Christ, and the Church should administer it [Baptism and the announcement of that promise] to them.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/smalcald.php#baptism

 

[NewCreation435]

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

Cambridge Bible Commentary

Titus 3:5

not by works of righteousness] The exact grammatical form is rendered by not by virtue of works, works in righteousness which we did. We should read the neut. accus. of the relative with the best authorities, rather than the genitive here. Bp Wordsworth well explains the reason of the clause: that when those false teachers were asked what was their ground of hope of salvation, they would reply The works wrought in righteousness which we did; but St Paul would answer Gods mercy.

he saved us] Vulg. salvos nos fecit. Compare the aorist tenses in Col 2:13-15. Bp Lightfoot thus brings out the force (Revision of N.T. p. 85): St Paul regards this change from sin to righteousness, from bondage to freedom, from death to life, as summed up in one definite act of the past; potentially to ail men in our Lords Passion and Resurrection, actually to each individual man when he accepts Christ, is baptized into Christ. It is the definiteness, the absoluteness of this change, considered as a historical crisis, which forms the central idea of St Pauls teaching, and which the aorist marks. See also note on 1Ti 2:4.

by the washing of regeneration] Properly through the washing or through the laver; the preposition expresses the channel or means through which; the washing or laver of regeneration is evidently one phrase for the sacrament of Holy Baptism. The genitive marks the attribute or inseparable accompaniments, Winer § 30 2 b, who quotes Mar 1:4, repentance-baptism. Cf. Col 1:22, his flesh-body, i.e. His material, natural body, distinguished from the mystical body before mentioned. Cf. also the fire of testing, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles xvi. 5.

Should we render here washing or laver? It has been usual among English commentators as Wordsw., Alf., Conybeare, Ellicott, to render laver, and to understand the baptismal font, on the ground that the Greek word means always a vessel or pool in which washing takes place. So no doubt the form in tron properly signifies, as e.g. arotron a plough, alabastron, an ointment-bottle. But classical usage is in the plural a bath, Hom. Il. xviii. 489, Ag. 1080; in the sing, the act of washing, Hes. Op. 755, expiatory libations, Soph. El. 84, water for washing,Col. 1599; Aristoph. Lys. 378. The Septuagint usage is only in the sing., Jer 31:25, A man baptized from the death of sin, and again taking hold of it, what does he gain from his washing? Son 4:2 Thy teeth are like a flock of ewes that are newly shorn, which are come up from the washing. The N.T. usage is only in the sing., Eph 5:26, having cleansed it (the Church) by the washing of water with the word, R.V., with margin Gr. laver, and the present passage where R.V. gives washing, with margin Or, laver. According to R.V. rules this inconsistency neutralises its verdict. For in Eph 5:26 it is implied that laver is more exact; in Tit. that washing is more, and laver less likely, as the meaning of the Greek. On the whole the classical usage, the A.V. and R.V. text, support the rendering washing. As to the form of the word, the Greeks may have been at liberty to divert it from its proper meaning, having the kindred form lout for a bath, which, according to analogy, should be a bathing man. Somewhat similarly having ast for a star they used astron for a cluster of stars.

regeneration] Palingenesia is one of the many words which the Gospel found, and, so to speak, glorified. Abp Trench, who admirably draws out the enlargement here, N. T. Syn. 18. The word had been used by the Pythagoreans, in the doctrine of transmigration of souls, for their reappearance in new bodies; by the Stoics for the periodic renovation of the earth in spring; in Cicero it describes his restoration to his dignities and honours after his return from exile; in Josephus the restoration of the Jewish nation after the captivity. The word does not occur in the Septuagint; and in N.T. only here and Mat 19:28. In our Lords words there is evident reference to the new birth of the whole creation (Act 3:21), which shall be when the Son of Man hereafter comes in His glory; while St Pauls washing of regeneration has to do with the new birth not of the whole travailing creation, but of the single soul, which is now evermore finding place.… The palingenesia which Scripture proclaims begins with the microcosmus of single souls; but it does not end there; it does not cease its effectual working till it has embraced the whole macrocosmus of the universe.

But if, as seems most consistent with the whole chapter, and with St Matthews grand aim to paint a present kingdom of the heavens, the reference of Mat 19:28 is to the Church, Catholic and Apostolic, then regeneration in both passages refers to the same act and epoch, when our Lord having overcome the sharpness of death opened the Kingdom of Heaven to all believers, and on the day of Pentecost 3000 souls said to Peter and the rest of the Apostles Brethren, what shall we do? and were baptized by them unto the remission of their sins, and continued stedfastly in the apostles teaching and fellowship. In our Lords words and in St Pauls the setting up of this kingdom, the entrance into it, is life from the dead, a second birth; and Joh 3:3; Joh 3:5 Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God; Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, (summed up in palingenesia Mat 19:28) explains and is explained by Eph 5:25-26, Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it, that he might cleanse it by the washing of water with the word (summed up in palingenesia:, Tit 3:5).

and renewing of the Holy Ghost] R.V. keeps this rendering of A.V. which necessarily makes renewing depend like regeneration on the washing; giving in the margin as a good, but not so good, construction and through renewing, where the government is carried back to the preposition. It is only a question of the naturalness of the order of words, and of the doctrine that renewing or renovation depends on Baptism being expressly stated or left to be inferred. The doctrine itself cannot but be true, as life must precede growth, and growth must depend upon life. Compare Eph 5:26, where the purpose of Christ giving Himself up for the Church is stated to be, first that He might cleanse it by the washing of water through the word (as above), and then that He might sanctify it, till there should be no spot nor blemish; and Rom 12:2, Be ye transformed (present tense) by the renewal of your mind; see that the gradual restoration of the Divine image be ever going forward. No nobler commentary on the phrase has been written than the ancient Veni Creator.​

So your trying to use this verse to justify that baptism has the quality of saving someone? That isn't what the verse says. it uses the word washing, which could just as likely mean that it has a cleansing effect and not mean physical water at all. The word washing in Titus 3:5 is the transliterated word loutron which means the act of bathing, bath or bathing and doesn't mean baptism. Col 1:22 doesn't support that belief either. It talks about what Jesus did in his death, not supportive of the idea of baptism as a means by which a person is saved.

The problem with this is when you start adding things to the cross of Christ by which a person must be saved that you are saying that the cross isn't enough. The cross and the work of Christ through the cross and the resurrection is the means by which a person is saved and baptism is not necessary at all for a person to be saved.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So your trying to use this verse to justify that baptism has the quality of saving someone?
...

No. I am not "trying" I AM using the verse to point to baptism as the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit because that is what baptism is and it is what the verse teaches.

 

[NewCreation435]

No. I am not "trying" I AM using the verse to point to baptism as the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit because that is what baptism is and it is what the verse teaches.

no sir, it does not. it doesn't mention baptism at all. The work of regeneration is a work of the Spirit. Physical water has nothing to do with the verse. Washing implies cleansing.

 

[MoreCoffee]

no sir, it does not. it doesn't mention baptism at all. The work of regeneration is a work of the Spirit. Physical water has nothing to do with the verse. Washing implies cleansing.

Tell me this, jsimms435, why is it that the verse says by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit if it is not about baptism then why is there a bath?

Titus 3:5 NAB "not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit,"​

Titus 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[Barnes]

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done - The plan was not based on our own good works, nor are our own good works now the cause of our salvation. If people could have been saved by their own good works, there would have been no need of salvation by the Redeemer; if our own deeds were now the basis of our title to eternal life, the work of Christ would be equally unnecessary. It is a great and fundamental principle of the gospel that the good works of men come in for no share in the justification of the soul. They are in no sense a consideration on account of which God pardons a man, and receives him to favor. The only basis of justification is the merit of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the matter of justification before God, all the race is on a level; see the notes at Eph 2:8-9.
But according to his mercy -

(1)It had its origin in mercy;
(2)It is by mere mercy or compassion, and not by justice;
(3)It is an expression of great mercy, and,
(4)It is now in fact conferred only by mercy.​

Whatever we have done or can do, when we come to receive salvation from the hand of God, there is no other element which enters into it but mercy. It is not because our deeds deserve it; it is not because we have by repentance and faith wrought ourselves into such a state of mind that we can claim it; but, after all our tears, and sighs, and prayers, and good deeds, it is a mere favor. Even then God might justly withhold it if he chose, and no blame would be attached to him if he should suffer us to sink down to ruin.
He saved us - That is, he began that salvation in us which is to be completed in heaven. A man who is already renewed and pardoned may be spoken of as saved - for:

(1)the work of salvation is begun, and,
(2)when begun it will certainly be completed; see the notes at Phi 1:6.​

By the washing of regeneration - In order to a correct understanding of this important passage, it is necessary to ascertain whether the phrase here used refers to baptism, and whether anything different is intended by it from what is meant by the succeeding phrase - renewing of the Holy Ghost. - The word rendered washing (λουτρόυ loutrou) occurs in the New Testament only in this place and in Eph 5:26, where also it is rendered washing - That he might sanctify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word. The word properly means a bath; then water for bathing; then the act of bathing, washing, ablution. Passow and Robinson. It is used by Homer to denote a warm or cold bath; then a washing away, and is thus applied to the drink-offerings in sacrifice, which were supposed to purify or wash away sin. Passow. The word here does not mean laver, or the vessel for washing in, which would be expressed by λουτὴρ loute and this word cannot be properly applied to the baptismal font.

The word in itself would naturally be understood as referring to baptism (compare notes at Act 22:16), which was regarded as the emblem of washing away sins, or of cleansing from them. I say it was the emblem, not the means of purifying the soul from sin. If this be the allusion, and it seems probable, then the phrase washing of regeneration would mean that outward washing or baptism which is the emblem of regeneration, and which is appointed as one of the ordinances connected with salvation; see the notes at Mar 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. It is not affirmed in this phrase that baptism is the means of regeneration; or that grace is necessarily conveyed by it; and still less that baptism is regeneration, for no one of these is a necessary interpretation of the passage, and should not be assumed to be the true one. The full force of the language will be met by the supposition that it means that baptism is the emblem or symbol of regeneration, and, if this is the case, no one has a right to assume that the other is certainly the meaning.
And that this is the meaning is further clear, because it is nowhere taught in the New Testament that baptism is regeneration, or that it is the means of regeneration. The word rendered regeneration (παλιγγενεσία palingenesia) - occurs in the New Testament only here and in Mat 19:28, - in the regeneration when the Son of man, etc. It means, properly, a new birth, reproduction, or renewal. It would properly be applied to one who should be begotten again in this sense, that a new life was commenced in him in some way corresponding to his being made to live at first. To the proper idea of the word, it is essential that there should be connected the notion of the commencement of life in the man, so that he may be said to live anew; and as religion is in the Scriptures represented as life, it is properly applied to the beginning of that kind of life by which man may be said to live anew. This word, occurring only here and in Mat 19:28, and there indubitably not referring to baptism, should not be here understood as referring to that, or be applied to that, because:

(1)that is not the proper meaning of the word;
(2)there is no Scripture usage to sanction it;
(3)the connection here does not demand it;
(4)the correlatives of the word (see Joh 3:3, Joh 3:5-6, Joh 3:8; 1Pe 1:3,) are applied only to that great moral change which is produced by the Holy Spirit, and,
(5)it is a dangerous use of the word.​

Its use in this sense leaves the impression that the only change needful for man is that which is produced by being regularly baptized. On almost no point has so much injury been done in the church as by the application of the word regeneration to baptism. It affects the beginning of religion in the soul, and if a mistake is made there, it is one which must pervade all the views of piety.

And renewing of the Holy Ghost - This is an important clause, added by Paul apparently to save from the possibility of falling into error. If the former expression, the washing of regeneration, had been left to stand by itself, it might have been supposed possibly that all the regeneration which would be needed would be that which would accompany baptism. But he avoids the possibility of this error, by saying that the renewing of the Holy Ghost is an indispensable part of that by which we are saved. It is necessary that this should exist in addition to that which is the mere emblem of it - the washing of regeneration - for without this the former would be unmeaning and unavailing. It is important to observe that the apostle by no means says that this always follows from the former, nor does he affirm that it ever follows from it - whatever may be the truth on that point - but he asserts that this is that on which our salvation depends. - The word rendered renewing (ἀνακαίνωσις anakainōsis) occurs only here and in Rom 12:2, where it is also rendered renewing; compare Note on that place. The verb (ἀνακαινόω anakainoō) occurs in 2Co 4:15, and Col 3:19, in both which places it is rendered renewed, and the corresponding word ἀνακαινίζω anakainizō, in Heb 6:6.

The noun properly means making new again: a renewing; a renovation; compare H. Planck in Bib. Repos. i. 677. It is a word which is found only in the writings of Paul, and in ecclesiastical Greek writers. It would be properly applied to such a change as the Holy Spirit produces in the soul, making one a new man; that is, a man new, so far as religion is concerned - new in his views, feelings, desires, hopes, plans, and purposes. He is so far different from what he was before, that it may be said he enters on a new life; see the notes at Eph 4:23-24. The renewing of the Holy Ghost of course means that which the Holy Spirit produces, recognizing the fact, everywhere taught in the Scriptures, that the Holy Spirit is the Author of the new creation. It cannot mean, as Koppe supposes, the renewing of the mind itself, or producing a holy spirit in the soul.
​

 

[Imalive]

no sir, it does not. it doesn't mention baptism at all. The work of regeneration is a work of the Spirit. Physical water has nothing to do with the verse. Washing implies cleansing.

Yes that's baptism. Baptism in the Spirit. And we do it symbolic w natural water. That was always the case w mikvahs in the O.T.
John said: Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Imalive]

No. I am not "trying" I AM using the verse to point to baptism as the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit because that is what baptism is and it is what the verse teaches.

Yes! MoreCoffee agrees w me and proves my point. It's fabulous.

 

[Imalive]

This is how DHoffman got saved. He went to a church, got baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and was saved.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes! MoreCoffee agrees w me and proves my point. It's fabulous.

I often agree with you, but I have no idea what point you think I proved

 

[NewCreation435]

Tell me this, jsimms435, why is it that the verse says by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit if it is not about baptism then why is there a bath?

Titus 3:5 NAB "not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit,"​

Titus 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[Barnes]

Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done - The plan was not based on our own good works, nor are our own good works now the cause of our salvation. If people could have been saved by their own good works, there would have been no need of salvation by the Redeemer; if our own deeds were now the basis of our title to eternal life, the work of Christ would be equally unnecessary. It is a great and fundamental principle of the gospel that the good works of men come in for no share in the justification of the soul. They are in no sense a consideration on account of which God pardons a man, and receives him to favor. The only basis of justification is the merit of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the matter of justification before God, all the race is on a level; see the notes at Eph 2:8-9.
But according to his mercy -

(1)It had its origin in mercy;
(2)It is by mere mercy or compassion, and not by justice;
(3)It is an expression of great mercy, and,
(4)It is now in fact conferred only by mercy.​

Whatever we have done or can do, when we come to receive salvation from the hand of God, there is no other element which enters into it but mercy. It is not because our deeds deserve it; it is not because we have by repentance and faith wrought ourselves into such a state of mind that we can claim it; but, after all our tears, and sighs, and prayers, and good deeds, it is a mere favor. Even then God might justly withhold it if he chose, and no blame would be attached to him if he should suffer us to sink down to ruin.
He saved us - That is, he began that salvation in us which is to be completed in heaven. A man who is already renewed and pardoned may be spoken of as saved - for:

(1)the work of salvation is begun, and,
(2)when begun it will certainly be completed; see the notes at Phi 1:6.​

By the washing of regeneration - In order to a correct understanding of this important passage, it is necessary to ascertain whether the phrase here used refers to baptism, and whether anything different is intended by it from what is meant by the succeeding phrase - renewing of the Holy Ghost. - The word rendered washing (λουτρόυ loutrou) occurs in the New Testament only in this place and in Eph 5:26, where also it is rendered washing - That he might sanctify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word. The word properly means a bath; then water for bathing; then the act of bathing, washing, ablution. Passow and Robinson. It is used by Homer to denote a warm or cold bath; then a washing away, and is thus applied to the drink-offerings in sacrifice, which were supposed to purify or wash away sin. Passow. The word here does not mean laver, or the vessel for washing in, which would be expressed by λουτὴρ loute and this word cannot be properly applied to the baptismal font.

The word in itself would naturally be understood as referring to baptism (compare notes at Act 22:16), which was regarded as the emblem of washing away sins, or of cleansing from them. I say it was the emblem, not the means of purifying the soul from sin. If this be the allusion, and it seems probable, then the phrase washing of regeneration would mean that outward washing or baptism which is the emblem of regeneration, and which is appointed as one of the ordinances connected with salvation; see the notes at Mar 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. It is not affirmed in this phrase that baptism is the means of regeneration; or that grace is necessarily conveyed by it; and still less that baptism is regeneration, for no one of these is a necessary interpretation of the passage, and should not be assumed to be the true one. The full force of the language will be met by the supposition that it means that baptism is the emblem or symbol of regeneration, and, if this is the case, no one has a right to assume that the other is certainly the meaning.
And that this is the meaning is further clear, because it is nowhere taught in the New Testament that baptism is regeneration, or that it is the means of regeneration. The word rendered regeneration (παλιγγενεσία palingenesia) - occurs in the New Testament only here and in Mat 19:28, - in the regeneration when the Son of man, etc. It means, properly, a new birth, reproduction, or renewal. It would properly be applied to one who should be begotten again in this sense, that a new life was commenced in him in some way corresponding to his being made to live at first. To the proper idea of the word, it is essential that there should be connected the notion of the commencement of life in the man, so that he may be said to live anew; and as religion is in the Scriptures represented as life, it is properly applied to the beginning of that kind of life by which man may be said to live anew. This word, occurring only here and in Mat 19:28, and there indubitably not referring to baptism, should not be here understood as referring to that, or be applied to that, because:

(1)that is not the proper meaning of the word;
(2)there is no Scripture usage to sanction it;
(3)the connection here does not demand it;
(4)the correlatives of the word (see Joh 3:3, Joh 3:5-6, Joh 3:8; 1Pe 1:3,) are applied only to that great moral change which is produced by the Holy Spirit, and,
(5)it is a dangerous use of the word.​

Its use in this sense leaves the impression that the only change needful for man is that which is produced by being regularly baptized. On almost no point has so much injury been done in the church as by the application of the word regeneration to baptism. It affects the beginning of religion in the soul, and if a mistake is made there, it is one which must pervade all the views of piety.

And renewing of the Holy Ghost - This is an important clause, added by Paul apparently to save from the possibility of falling into error. If the former expression, the washing of regeneration, had been left to stand by itself, it might have been supposed possibly that all the regeneration which would be needed would be that which would accompany baptism. But he avoids the possibility of this error, by saying that the renewing of the Holy Ghost is an indispensable part of that by which we are saved. It is necessary that this should exist in addition to that which is the mere emblem of it - the washing of regeneration - for without this the former would be unmeaning and unavailing. It is important to observe that the apostle by no means says that this always follows from the former, nor does he affirm that it ever follows from it - whatever may be the truth on that point - but he asserts that this is that on which our salvation depends. - The word rendered renewing (ἀνακαίνωσις anakainōsis) occurs only here and in Rom 12:2, where it is also rendered renewing; compare Note on that place. The verb (ἀνακαινόω anakainoō) occurs in 2Co 4:15, and Col 3:19, in both which places it is rendered renewed, and the corresponding word ἀνακαινίζω anakainizō, in Heb 6:6.

The noun properly means making new again: a renewing; a renovation; compare H. Planck in Bib. Repos. i. 677. It is a word which is found only in the writings of Paul, and in ecclesiastical Greek writers. It would be properly applied to such a change as the Holy Spirit produces in the soul, making one a new man; that is, a man new, so far as religion is concerned - new in his views, feelings, desires, hopes, plans, and purposes. He is so far different from what he was before, that it may be said he enters on a new life; see the notes at Eph 4:23-24. The renewing of the Holy Ghost of course means that which the Holy Spirit produces, recognizing the fact, everywhere taught in the Scriptures, that the Holy Spirit is the Author of the new creation. It cannot mean, as Koppe supposes, the renewing of the mind itself, or producing a holy spirit in the soul.
​

I already did tell you and you didn't listen, so I am not going to repeat myself. You can't see it because you believe your churches teachings rather than sees what the verses say

 

[Imalive]

I often agree with you, but I have no idea what point you think I proved

You get saved when you're baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Fountain of living water. Normally at the same time you also get baptized in water, at least in Biblical times.
Now they don't baptize in living water anymore btw except the church of my mom that baptizes ppl in the river.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You get saved when you're baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Fountain of living water. Normally at the same time you also get baptized in water, at least in Biblical times.
Now they don't baptize in living water anymore btw except the church of my mom that baptizes ppl in the river.

I believe in one baptism so when a chap is baptised he receives the holy Spirit and water is used.

 

[Imalive]

I believe in one baptism so when a chap is baptised he receives the holy Spirit and water is used.

Yes most of the time. There is an example where they baptized em in water because they were already baptized in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lamb]

I believe in one baptism so when a chap is baptised he receives the holy Spirit and water is used.

"and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove from heaven and resting upon him... This verse from Luke gives is the foreshadowing of our own baptisms. Jesus did not need to be baptized because He didn't sin (but we need it). Jesus didn't need the Holy Spirit to descend upon Him (but we do).

 

[MennoSota]

John Gill ---

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done
The great instance of the kindness and love of God our Saviour is salvation; which the apostle denies that it is brought about by any works, even the best works of men; for "works of righteousness" are works done according to a righteous law, and in obedience to it; and in a righteous manner, from right principles of grace, in faith, and with a view to the glory of God; or otherwise they are not righteous actions, or works of righteousness; wherefore not works before, but after conversion, are here meant; for works before conversion are not properly works of righteousness: besides, these are such which we have done, who formerly were as before described, but now are regenerated and renewed by the Holy Ghost, and created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Now salvation, neither in whole, nor in part, is by these, either as causes; conditions, or means; (See Gill on 2 Timothy 1:9), "works of righteousness", is a Jewish phrase used for righteous or good works

but according to his mercy he saved us;
the mercy of God is natural and essential to him, but the actings and exercise of it, towards this or the other objects, are sovereign and free, and according to his will; the effects of it are many, he is rich and abundant in it; and they are channelled in, and flow forth through the blood and righteousness of Christ; and this is the moving cause of salvation: this moved God to make a covenant with his Son, the blessings of which are the sure mercies of David, and in which God is merciful to the sins and unrighteousnesses of his people; it is owing to the tender mercy of God, that Christ, the dayspring from on high, has visited the earth; and the glory of it is very conspicuous in the affair of redemption by him; the pardon of sin is according to the multitude of God's tender mercies; and regeneration springs from the abundance of it; and even eternal life is the effect of it. Now according to this, God has "saved" his people; salvation is not only a thing determined, and resolved on in the mind of God, but is actually and completely accomplished by Jesus Christ, and an application of it is made to the saints in effectual calling; and because of the certain enjoyment of the whole of it, even eternal glory, the saints are said to be saved already; as they are also in faith and hope, as well as in Christ, their head and representative; (See Gill on Ephesians 2:8). It follows, as the means of salvation,

by the washing of regeneration,
and renewing of the Holy Ghost; by the former is meant, not the ordinance of water baptism; for that is never expressed by washing, nor is it the cause or means of regeneration; the cause being the Spirit of God, and the means the word of God: and besides, persons ought to be regenerated before they are baptized; and they may be baptized, and yet not regenerated, as Simon Magus; nor is it a saving ordinance, or a point of salvation; nor can it be opposed to works of righteousness, as this washing is; for that itself is a work of righteousness; see ( Matthew 3:15 ) and if persons were saved by that, they would be saved by a work of righteousness, contrary to the text itself: but regenerating grace is meant, or a being born of water, and of the Spirit; that is, of the grace of the Spirit, comparable to water for its purity and cleansing virtue: hence such who are regenerated and sanctified, are said to be washed and cleansed, having their hearts purified by faith, and their consciences purged from sin by the blood of Christ: by the latter,

the renewing of the Holy Ghost,
is meant either the fruit and effect of the former, even newness of life and conversation, under the influence of the Holy Spirit; or else the gradual increase and progress of the work of grace upon the soul, renewed day by day in the spirit of the mind, by the Holy Ghost; or rather it means the same thing with regeneration, and is added partly as explanative of the washing of regeneration, showing that that is no other than the new creature, the new man, the new heart, and new spirit, formed in the soul, in the effectual calling; and partly to observe that the Holy Ghost is the author of it. Now it is in this way God saves his people, namely, by regenerating and renewing them; in this is the first appearance and discovery of the love of God to them; this is their open passage into a state of grace, and without this there is no entrance into glory; this is the foundation of all grace and good works, and by which saints appear to be heirs of the heavenly inheritance.

 

[MoreCoffee]

John Gill ---
...

Excellent that you found John Gill's commentary. I disagree with his analysis of Titus 3:5. I prefer the one given by Barnes and also the one in the Cambridge Bible Commentary.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes most of the time. There is an example where they baptized em in water because they were already baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I know of an example in Acts chapter nineteen where people who were baptised by John had not received the Holy Spirit and then Paul preached to them, they were baptised and received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. Is that the one you're referring to?

Acts 19:1-10 Now it happened that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul, after he had journeyed through the upper regions, arrived at Ephesus. And he met with certain disciples. (2) And he said to them, "After believing, have you received the Holy Spirit?" But they said to him, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." (3) Yet truly, he said, "Then with what have you been baptized?" And they said, "With the baptism of John." (4) Then Paul said: "John baptized the people with the baptism of repentance, saying that they should believe in the One who is to come after him, that is, in Jesus." (5) Upon hearing these things, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came over them. And they were speaking in tongues and prophesying. (7) Now the men were about twelve in all. (8) Then, upon entering the synagogue, he was speaking faithfully for three months, disputing and persuading them about the kingdom of God. (9) But when certain ones became hardened and would not believe, cursing the Way of the Lord in the presence of the multitude, Paul, withdrawing from them, separated the disciples, disputing daily in a certain school of Tyrannus. (10) Now this was done throughout two years, so that all who were living in Asia listened to the Word of the Lord, both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Imalive]

I know of an example in Acts chapter nineteen where people who were baptised by John had not received the Holy Spirit and then Paul preached to them, they were baptised and received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. Is that the one you're referring to?

Acts 19:1-10 Now it happened that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul, after he had journeyed through the upper regions, arrived at Ephesus. And he met with certain disciples. (2) And he said to them, "After believing, have you received the Holy Spirit?" But they said to him, "We have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." (3) Yet truly, he said, "Then with what have you been baptized?" And they said, "With the baptism of John." (4) Then Paul said: "John baptized the people with the baptism of repentance, saying that they should believe in the One who is to come after him, that is, in Jesus." (5) Upon hearing these things, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came over them. And they were speaking in tongues and prophesying. (7) Now the men were about twelve in all. (8) Then, upon entering the synagogue, he was speaking faithfully for three months, disputing and persuading them about the kingdom of God. (9) But when certain ones became hardened and would not believe, cursing the Way of the Lord in the presence of the multitude, Paul, withdrawing from them, separated the disciples, disputing daily in a certain school of Tyrannus. (10) Now this was done throughout two years, so that all who were living in Asia listened to the Word of the Lord, both Jews and Gentiles.

No that's first water baptism.
I mean Acts 10 Cornelius.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No that's first water baptism.
I mean Acts 10 Cornelius.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Interesting sequence of events isn't it. They were the first gentiles to believe and be baptised. God had to work hard to get Peter to visit them and I guess he had to work hard to get Peter and his Jewish-Christian friends to accept the gentiles. My guess is that is why they were given the Spirit first and then baptised - as proof for the reluctant Peter and his reluctant friends.