Ask a Christian - Pauline Christianity - a religion of the State?

[MoreCoffee]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I guess the pope doesn't get a word from the Lord.

No, that is the whole point isn't it. Popes never claim to be recipients of public revelations from God and completely reject any suggestion that anything they say or wrote is inspired but protestants who are ignorant of Catholic teaching keep saying that he does and is.

 

[MennoSota]

No, that is the whole point isn't it. Popes never claim to be recipients of public revelations from God and completely reject any suggestion that anything they say or wrote is inspired but protestants who are ignorant of Catholic teaching keep saying that he does and is.

402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.

 

[MoreCoffee]

402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.

I bet you don't have a clue what that means

 

[MennoSota]

I bet you don't have a clue what that means

The pope, the vicar (substitute) of Christ on the earth.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The pope, the vicar (substitute) of Christ on the earth.

Yep, you don't have a clue what it means. Not a clue.

 

[MennoSota]

Yep, you don't have a clue what it means. Not a clue.

Funny how the pope takes a pagan title.
The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest pontiff" or "greatest bridge-builder") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Funny how the pope takes a pagan title.
The Pontifex Maximus (Latin, literally: "greatest pontiff" or "greatest bridge-builder") was the high priest of the College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) in ancient Rome. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion.

It's a Latin title (not pagan) and it means Great bridge builder

 

[MennoSota]

It's a Latin title (not pagan) and it means Great bridge builder

The pagan high priest held the title in ancient Rome. Care to excuse your pontiff some more?

 

[MoreCoffee]

The pagan high priest held the title in ancient Rome. Care to excuse your pontiff some more?

I like his title as great bridge builder. It explains what a Christian leader ought to be.

 

[NewCreation435]

God raises up all nations and tears them down by his ordination. This includes the ones we consider extraordinarily evil.
Habakkuk 1:5-7
[5]The lord replied, “Look around at the nations; look and be amazed! For I am doing something in your own day, something you wouldn’t believe even if someone told you about it.
[6]I am raising up the Babylonians, a cruel and violent people. They will march across the world and conquer other lands.
[7]They are notorious for their cruelty and do whatever they like.

Yes, he did use Assyria and Babylon to judge Israel and Judea in different periods of time. It is an example of how God can use even evil people to fulfill his purposes. However, he didn't approve of all of their deeds. If he did, he would not have gone on to judge them also. There are plenty of references to the judgment of both Assyria and Babylon. If they were simply doing what he asked them to do then it would have been cruel to turn around and judge them for it.

 

[MennoSota]

I like his title as great bridge builder. It explains what a Christian leader ought to be.

A pagan high priest?

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, he did use Assyria and Babylon to judge Israel and Judea in different periods of time. It is an example of how God can use even evil people to fulfill his purposes. However, he didn't approve of all of their deeds. If he did, he would not have gone on to judge them also. There are plenty of references to the judgment of both Assyria and Babylon. If they were simply doing what he asked them to do then it would have been cruel to turn around and judge them for it.

Right. God uses rebels to prune the branches, but he also burns up the rebels when he is done with them. They have no connection to the vine.

 

[Stravinsk]

I find this comment "here's your chance to convince me I've got this all wrong. . . ." to be really patronizing. If you don't want to believe that is your choice. God is a God of truth, so to the extent that the government is established on truth then it is in God's will. But countries can rebel against God's authority just like man can. There are plenty of examples of that in the Old Testament with Israel. I believe America is already there having followed after an idol of money and materialism and is no longer for the most part following after God.
Please stop being patronizing

Using the qualifier "to the extent" is the same as what both Albion and Mennosota have done in their responses. I'm afraid the teaching of Romans 13 doesn't allow for this.

Not one person has answered my questions or gone point by point through my post, showing where I am in error.

As far as being patronizing, this is the second time you've been offended at one of my posts, jsimms435. Maybe it's time to check that pride. I am a firm in my beliefs about Saul/Paul, I know he speaks some truth but he also mixes it with lies. My offer to have anyone prove me wrong on the Romans 13 passage is a genuine one, and quite frankly whether someone takes offense or not is not the issue. Might as well tell Yeshua to be quiet when he called the Pharisees of his day sons of hell. Go on, tell me He was wrong because he didn't coddle to their feelings.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A pagan high priest?

A Christian bishop. But you knew that didn't you?

:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

A Christian bishop. But you knew that didn't you?

:smirk:

His title is taken from pagan priest, but you knew that didn't you?

 

[MoreCoffee]

His title is taken from pagan priest, but you knew that didn't you?

His title, he has lots of titles, among them "servant of the servants of God". But you are right, in ancient Pagan Rome when Rome was an empire the pontifix maximus was a kind of chief priest for the public cults. Usually an Emperor or similar senior politician was the pontifix maximus. The bishop of Rome acquired the title when he was given the rule over the city and territories still under Rome's direct control. I see nothing to worry about in it. "Pastor" is as much a pagan title as pontifix maximus and so is deacon, elder and all the other Christian titles in use today and in ancient times.

 

[MennoSota]

His title, he has lots of titles, among them "servant of the servants of God". But you are right, in ancient Pagan Rome when Rome was an empire the pontifix maximus was a kind of chief priest for the public cults. Usually an Emperor or similar senior politician was the pontifix maximus. The bishop of Rome acquired the title when he was given the rule over the city and territories still under Rome's direct control. I see nothing to worry about in it. "Pastor" is as much a pagan title as pontifix maximus and so is deacon, elder and all the other Christian titles in use today and in ancient times.

The bishop took the title when Constantine made Christianity the State religion. He became the pagan high priest of the Roman Empire. It was the beginning in the fall of the church at Rome.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The bishop took the title when Constantine made Christianity the State religion. He became the pagan high priest of the Roman Empire. It was the beginning in the fall of the church at Rome.

Nope, that is not right. "The title Pontifex Maximus has for some centuries been used in inscriptions referring to the Popes, it has never been included in the official list of papal titles published in the Annuario Pontificio, which instead includes "Supreme Pontiff of the whole Church" (in Latin, Summus Pontifex Ecclesiae Universalis) as the fourth official title, the first being "Bishop of Rome." "

 

[MoreCoffee]

The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church says that it was in the fifteenth century that "Pontifex Maximus" became a regular title of honour for Popes.

 

[Imalive]

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-limits-of-submission-to-man