What Is Sin?

[Josiah]

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The word "sin" literally means "to miss the mark" or "to fall short of the mark."

In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."

Sin means to fall short, to miss, to not attain the Calling set before us, to not met the will of God.




The LAW, the MARK

What is the Law? What is the MARK? It is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection, justice and love. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.


Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"

Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."

Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all for all have sinned."

First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"

Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."

Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."

First John 1:10, "If any claims to have no sin, they make God a liar and His word is not in them."

There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT - and still more in the NT



What does the Law mandate? Essentially, that our character be identical to His.


Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."

John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."

Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."

First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."

Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."






The LAW has two functions:

Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own national laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all.

The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, if we were God's equal in love, morality and character - we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7......) but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed.

Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides")

The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"



BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.



We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't) and thus never be absent of sin (this side of heaven, anyway). "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. No way! We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.




- Josiah




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[MoreCoffee]

You do not know?

 

[Josiah]

You do not know?

I know it's NOT just some intentional ACTION that specifically violates the BIG TEN...

I know it's NOT something that those under the age of X are incapable of.

 

[Josiah]

The Sin Nature (aka "Original Sin")


The concept -

Stuff doesn't spring out of nothing. There's a HISTORY. If I pull the trigger to my gun (I don't have one, but....) and kill my innocent, harmless neighbor, yeah we all agree that's bad. But did the action of my pulling the trigger spring out of nothing whatsoever? Likely, there's a history here! And if we traced it all back, it would go to something twisted, broken, flawed, fallen deep in my heart. THAT'S the beginning, the origin, the root cause..... what followed simply flows from that.

Let's say I have a cold (I don't, but again....). Now, at this moment, I may be not be coughing or sneezing or have a runny nose or sore throat. Does that mean I don't have a cold? Nope. It just means that at this moment, I have no SYMPTOMS. Indeed, I may have a cold (the disease) before I have any symptoms at all. The sin NATURE ("original sin") is this disease - this broken, fallen, twisted aspect - the ROOT of what's flawed. It acknowledges that coughing, sneezing, runny noses don't just spring out of NOTHING for NO REASON.... killers don't just pull the trigger because some involuntary movement happened in their finger...there's a history, there's a disease, a spiritual disease.

The Bible often refers to this is the singular, by "sin".


The SYMPTOMS in theology are called "Actual"or "Actualized" sin (the Bible usually speaks of this in the plural, "sins"). My blowing away my neighbor is an "actualized sin" and just one of my sins (which springs from a disease in me, my broken, fallen, twisted, flawed nature).

The symptoms can be active or passive. Active are symptoms whereby we think, say or do what we should not. "I shot my neighbor" Passive would be "I forgot to feed the bunny." Symptoms can be what we think, say or do that we should NOT have..... or..... what we neglected to think, say or do that we SHOULD have. Ways our sinful nature is - unfortunately - revealing itself. Symptoms. Like coughing, sneezing, runny nose, sore throat.



The Scriptures -


1. See the opening post and the many Scriptures there.... There is nothing there that remotely suggests that those under the age of X are free of sin. That those under this (never disclosed) age ARE perfect as God is perfect, holy as God is holy, love as much as Jesus loves, or any of the other standards and requirements of God. And the Bible says "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the standard" - not "for ALL under the age of X are perfect, holy and void of any sinful nature." Not one of the verses in the Opening Post (or in Scripture) remotely states that people are born without a sinful nature or modify what these Scriptures state (for example, "for all have sinned and fall short")


2. Refer to the following -

Genesis 8:21

Psalm 14:2-3

Romans 5:12

Ephesians 2:1-3


3. Consider.....

The Bible specifically states that death is the punishing FOR SIN (Romans 5:12, Romans 6:33, etc.). Babies die (even while still in the womb). Thus, babies must have sin and must be held accountable for such. People often point out that Jesus died yet He was without sin (being God as well): True, but He died because He had taken upon Himself the sins of the WORLD (of us) and THUS He had to die for the wages of sin is death. People will note that animals die, as well yet the Bible does not state they have sinned. The Bible ONLY applies this as punishment for sins to HUMANS and thus there's no biblical reason to believe that animals die for the same reason although we can't address that situation since the Bible is entirely silent on that.




Some helpful insights by Rev Dr. Joel Otto

“There’s a little bit of good in everyone.” “Such a cute baby . . . so innocent.” “Everyone’s got the choice to be good or bad. We just have to put people into the right environment so they’ll make the right choices.”

We have all heard such thoughts. It’s the prevailing view today. It is also the view of every non-Christian religion and even many Christian denominations. It’s nothing new. Throughout history, people have believed that they are not that bad, that they can do enough good to earn heaven—or at least make some kind of contribution.

The Bible, however, says the opposite. The Bible teaches that every person who is born of a mother and father inherits a corrupt sinful condition, going all the way back to the first sin of Adam and Eve (Romans 5:12; Psalm 51:5).

The problem with denying the totality and severity of original sin is that people imagine they can do something to earn God’s favor. But how could anyone ever be certain they have done enough? When we confess and understand our absolute helplessness and hopelessness, we can see that salvation has to be entirely, from beginning to end, the work of God for us. And it is. Of that we are certain.

Questions to consider

1. Read Ephesians 2:1; Romans 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2:14. How do each of these passages describe our natural spiritual condition?

Ephesians 2:1: We are spiritually dead by nature. This means we are incapable of doing anything positive in a spiritual sense (a corpse cannot do anything except be lifeless). We do not have the power, for example, to make a decision for Jesus.
Romans 8:7: We are enemies of God, actively hostile to his will. We fight against his will. Not only are we incapable of obeying him; we do not even want to. This is even stronger than the description of spiritual deadness.
1 Corinthians 2:14: Unbelievers are incapable of understanding what God reveals in his Word. Without the Spirit’s work, the gospel remains foolishness; it makes no sense. It should not surprise us that people reject the good news about Jesus. We should be amazed and rejoice that we (and anyone) believes in Jesus.


2. Why is it so difficult for people to believe the Bible’s teaching about original sin? Why do you think this might be an especially “American” problem?

By nature, people think that they have the capacity to do what God says, at least to the extent that God will be pleased. Or people think they can accept Jesus on their own. No one wants to think that they are spiritually dead, enemies of God, and blind to spiritual truth, which is how the Bible describes them. No one wants to believe that they are as powerless as the Bible says. This is an especially “American” problem because the American dream and mindset is that if you just set your mind to it, you can be anything you want. You can succeed. You can climb the ladder of success. The American mindset thinks that you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and get things done. This kind of attitude especially makes the biblical teaching of original sin difficult to accept because this teaching leaves no room for human contribution in salvation.


3. Read Psalm 51:1-12. Explain how the teaching about original sin fits into this psalm of repentance. Why is confessing that we are “by nature sinful” so important in our regular confession of sins?

David wrote this psalm after Nathan confronted him about his sins of adultery and murder involving Bathsheba and Uriah. David was brought to repentance and expresses that repentance in this psalm. The first part of repentance is acknowledging our sins and turning from them. David confesses his natural sinful condition. That’s where actual sins begin. This is so important in our regular confession of sins. In our minds, we might be able to minimize and even excuse some of our sinful behavior. But we cannot get around our natural sinful condition. And because this condition is universal and makes us so spiritually powerless, we come to see and appreciate even more the grace and mercy of God in blotting out our transgressions and washing away all our iniquities. This is especially important in the corporate Confession of Sins in worship. Certain sins may not apply to some members of a congregation. But all of us are “by nature sinful.” Therefore, all of us equally need to hear and receive the forgiveness of sins which Christ has earned and which the Word and sacraments proclaim and give.

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The above is by Rev. Dr. Joel Otto, a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wisconsin, is a member at Salem, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.



- Josiah



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[Lamb]

Recognizing Original Sin is crucial in understanding our full need for the Savior. If we reject Original Sin then we tend to believe that man can somehow contribute to his salvation.

 

[Josiah]

Recognizing Original Sin is crucial in understanding our full need for the Savior. If we reject Original Sin then we tend to believe that man can somehow contribute to his salvation.

To make the Savior small, we have to make sin small.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Even if sins were small God would remain God. The "size" of one's sins does not alter God.

 

[Lamb]

Even if sins were small God would remain God. The "size" of one's sins does not alter God.

But some people like to alter sin as if they no longer sin. That's a huge problem.

 

[MoreCoffee]

But some people like to alter sin as if they no longer sin. That's a huge problem.

If it happens that it is a problem only for those who do it.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Sin is a disease we inherited from Adam and Eve. Baptism and drowning the old Adam inside all of us is the antidote. The sacrament of the Lord's Supper builds our faith and joins us physically and spiritually to our Lord. The rite of Confession and Absolution puts us back on track when we sin ( for although we've been forgiven, we do still sin). Sin separates us from God and puts self in God's place in our lives.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Holy Scripture says sin is lawlessness. That's a big word intended to mean living without one's conscience.

 

[MennoSota]

The interesting thing about Ephesians 2 :1-10 is that in vs 1, the idea is that the person is dead because they have utterly missed the mark. Later in the passage Paul says that not only did God make us alive, but he has brought us to the mark and beyond. It's a fascinating study in comparison and contrast between our sinful state and our redeemed state.
It should be noted that this action of God on our behalf is past tense, which completely annihilates MCs contention that our salvation cannot be secure until we die. His position is also wiped out by virtue of Paul telling us that we have been chosen from before the foundation of the world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The interesting thing about Ephesians 2 :1-10 is that in vs 1, the idea is that the person is dead because they have utterly missed the mark. Later in the passage Paul says that not only did God make us alive, but he has brought us to the mark and beyond. It's a fascinating study in comparison and contrast between our sinful state and our redeemed state.
It should be noted that this action of God on our behalf is past tense, which completely annihilates MCs contention that our salvation cannot be secure until we die. His position is also wiped out by virtue of Paul telling us that we have been chosen from before the foundation of the world.

The trouble with proof texting as you have done in the quote is that it loses context. Context is wider than a surrounding paragraph, it includes everything in the holy scripture and specifically those things that teach on the same topic that a particular passage addresses. Consider what saint Paul says Philippians 3:12-21 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. [13] Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, [14] I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let those of us who are mature be thus minded; and if in anything you are otherwise minded, God will reveal that also to you. [16] Only let us hold true to what we have attained. [17] Brethren, join in imitating me, and mark those who so live as you have an example in us. [18] For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, live as enemies of the cross of Christ. [19] Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. [20] But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, [21] who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.

 

[Josiah]

Holy Scripture says sin is lawlessness. That's a big word intended to mean living without one's conscience.

Sin = falling short of the law; this "lawlessness." Since the very word "sin" means to miss the mark, to fall short - that fits pretty well.

 

[Josiah]

Even if sins were small God would remain God. The "size" of one's sins does not alter God.

True enough, but people like to consider Him small.... really not necessary.... we ain't so bad..... maybe we need a good moral teacher, perhaps a nice example, a little inspiration and a bit of help now and then - and we'll be just fine (or at least good enough).

 

[MennoSota]

The trouble with proof texting as you have done in the quote is that it loses context. Context is wider that a surrounding paragraph, it includes everything in the holy scripture and specifically those things that teach on the same topic that a particular passage addresses. Consider what saint Paul says Philippians 3:12-21 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. [13] Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, [14] I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. [15] Let those of us who are mature be thus minded; and if in anything you are otherwise minded, God will reveal that also to you. [16] Only let us hold true to what we have attained. [17] Brethren, join in imitating me, and mark those who so live as you have an example in us. [18] For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, live as enemies of the cross of Christ. [19] Their end is destruction, their god is the belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. [20] But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, [21] who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.

You realize that the passage in Philippians 3 is not talking about salvation...don't you? It's not even addressing the same issue as Ephesians 2. If you want to compare, better to look at Colossians.
Colossians 1:11-22
[11]We also pray that you will be strengthened with all his glorious power so you will have all the endurance and patience you need. May you be filled with joy,
[12]always thanking the Father. He has enabled you to share in the inheritance that belongs to his people, who live in the light.
[13]For he has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of his dear Son,
[14]who purchased our freedom and forgave our sins.
[15]Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. *** He existed before anything was created and is supreme over all creation,
[16]for through him God created everything *** in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see *** and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. *** Everything was created through him and for him.
[17]He existed before anything else, *** and he holds all creation together.
[18]Christ is also the head of the church, *** which is his body. He is the beginning, *** supreme over all who rise from the dead. *** So he is first in everything.
[19]For God in all his fullness *** was pleased to live in Christ,
[20]and through him God reconciled *** everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth *** by means of Christ’s blood on the cross.
[21]This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions.
[22]Yet now he has reconciled you to himself through the death of Christ in his physical body. As a result, he has brought you into his own presence, and you are holy and blameless as you stand before him without a single fault.
Colossians 2:9-23
[9]For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
[10]So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.
[11]When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.
[12]For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.
[13]You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
[14]He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.
[15]In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.
[16]So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
[17]For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.
[18]Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on pious self-denial or the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud,
[19]and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it.
[20]You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as,
[21]“Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”?
[22]Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them.
[23]These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You realize that the passage in Philippians 3 is not talking about salvation...don't you? It's not even addressing the same issue as Ephesians 2. If you want to compare, better to look at Colossians.
...

Keep up the proof texting and before long you'll be ripe prey for any heresy.

 

[MennoSota]

Keep up the proof texting and before long you'll be ripe prey for any heresy.

You don't know what proof texting is. Here's a hint. It's when you take a sentence or two, out of context and create an entire doctrine from it.
Since I have quoted passages from various books it negates your claim and makes you look silly.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You don't know what proof texting is. Here's a hint. It's when you take a sentence or two, out of context and create an entire doctrine from it.
Since I have quoted passages from various books it negates your claim and makes you look silly.

Of course! How could I forget! It's "proof texting" whenever the verse or verses disagree with MennoSota's stated view and it is exegesis whenever the verse can be made to say whatever happens to be MennoSota's stated view. Dear me! Imagine forgetting that

:smirk:

 

[Josiah]

Reminder....

This thread is about sin..... especially it's nature.

It was motivated by another thread where it was stated that those a day short of their 12th birthday have no sin. And by the ever-growing belief in Christianity that sin doesn't exist (it's hardly mentioned in contemporary Christian songs, for example) or if it does, it's limited to what an ADULT premeditatedly decides to DO (only sins are sins of commission done intentionally by one on the day he turns 12 and over).

IMO, in much of Christianity, "sin" is a concept largely lost.

IMO, Christian quite depends on this concept.

Those who view sin lightly are going to view God and His Savior, mercy, grace and forgiveness lightly - which IMO is just what is happening in much of modern Christianity.




- Pax Christi



- Josiah