Purgatory?

[MennoSota]

"Through God’s marvelous grace sinners are delivered from their sins and brought into a saving relationship with a holy God by the work of God on their behalf completely free of charge. This grace does not cease with salvation from sin’s penalty, but continues on as the foundation of the believer’s life with God throughout all eternity. These blessings of grace Paul and his associates wish for their readers."

Delivered from sins
Saving relationship with works on Gods behalf
Does not cease
Blessings
I never disagreed with that, God delivered me from tons of things but I do feel convicted of some sin and so I repent as the apostles taught God wont control someones hand from putting a joint to your mouth but the holy spirit can make you not want to, if you fight that spirit you may still do it and start diminishing the Spirit in you and stop believing and backslide, so repentance is very important you have will and you might have to cast off your spirital arm into the fire so to speak, that is willingly cease to sin and put the joint down.
Why is repentance such an issue with you anyway? This grace we agree on does not interfere with the process of repentance or vise versa, they complement eachother.
Im tired of all these grace alone faith alone scripture alone titles, these all work together. If you love God you will keep his commandments, backsliders dont care about grace they relapse and turn back to darkness, this does not help save the world.

Repentance is great for us who are made alive. A dead man cannot repent.
You are still dodging away from grace. Why is God doing all the work to save you so bothersome to you? Why must you add your own works to God's amazing grace?
What we are talking about is the fundamental means of salvation. Either you merit your salvation by the things you do...or...you merit nothing and God extends unmerited favor to you by his sovereign choice.
These are the two options. If God is to be your Savior then you must bow in humble acceptance that God has chosen to extend to you unmerited favor. That means you do nothing to receive God's salvation. Nothing. It is unmerited.

 

[MoreCoffee]

... If you love God you will keep his commandments, backsliders don't care about grace they relapse and turn back to darkness, this does not help save the world.

I agree with you that love for God means one's life is transformed and the transformation implies keeping the commandments that Jesus gave and those commandments encapsulate what the old covenant ten commandments taught Israel to do and to be.

Purgatory is about the purging of whatever remains of "the lusts of the flesh" in a Christian after their walk in this life is over.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Repentance is great for us who are made alive. ...

Repentance is necessary and it is a grace from God and it is godly sorrow for one's sins.

 

[Imalive]

LOL, your hyperbole does not make a good argument.
Paul tells the Ephesians that they were dead in their trespasses and sins, but God made them alive in Christ.
Please explain how a dead man repents.
When the message of repentance is shared in Acts and even today, only those whom God makes alive will repent. Repentance is an effect of God's work in giving life. Repentance is not a cause of salvation. To say it is a cause is to castrate God's grace and replace it with works, which is exactly what you are doing. You are essentially saying that God is not strong enough to save you without your glorious help.
@ DHoffmann, do you know what grace is?

Gods grace leads to repentance.
We are saved by grace through faith and faith without works is dead. Not by our own works, so noone should boast. Repentance is not a work. Call everyone to repentance. A work is doing good things. Repentance is seeing you do nothing good and can't even and ask God to do it.
The proof of being saved is good works.
Paul worked his socks off with good works, cause the love of Christ drew him, cause he was saved by grace.

 

[Imalive]

I agree with you that love for God means one's life is transformed and the transformation implies keeping the commandments that Jesus gave and those commandments encapsulate what the old covenant ten commandments taught Israel to do and to be.

Purgatory is about the purging of whatever remains of "the lusts of the flesh" in a Christian after their walk in this life is over.

The robber on the cross didn't even go to purgatory. 1 prayer. bam. paradise.

 

[Andrew]

So......... Purgatory.

As we all know, we can never stay on topic because "someone" always has to... well, let the picture speak for itself
(I love this one)

 

[MennoSota]

Repentance is necessary and it is a grace from God and it is godly sorrow for one's sins.

No. Repentance is not a form of grace that can only be activated by humans. You castrate grace when you force works upon it. You and DHoffmann and imalive keep adding works to God's gift of grace. It's the very thing Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

 

[Andrew]

The robber on the cross didn't even go to purgatory. 1 prayer. bam. paradise.

Yep, in fact the Catholic church recognizes hime as St. Dismas... Thief turned Saint at death (Dismas is greek for "sunset" "death")

 

[Imalive]

No. Repentance is not a form of grace that can only be activated by humans. You castrate grace when you force works upon it. You and DHoffmann and imalive keep adding works to God's gift of grace. It's the very thing Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

No it's the very thing Paul teaches, to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It's what Jesus says. Hear My Words and do them. Revelations. Repent and do your first works again.
Galatians, that's about circumcision and other Mosaic laws.

 

[Andrew]

No. Repentance is not a form of grace that can only be activated by humans. You castrate grace when you force works upon it. You and DHoffmann and imalive keep adding works to God's gift of grace. It's the very thing Paul condemns in his letter to the Galatians.

Why because you take "lest ye boast" entirely out of context and base your entire faith around it? What is all that "repentance" talk in the bible? did you rip them out?

 

[Imalive]

And if the reformed believe they are saved only by grace and don't add works, why do they always read the 10 commandments in church? They're adding works.

 

[Imalive]

Galatians 5

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The robber on the cross didn't even go to purgatory. 1 prayer. bam. paradise.

One prayer and then death and then paradise in which the robber on the cross next to Jesus' cross is no longer a robber and no longer wants to sin because whatever motived him before and controlled his life has been purged (removed) from him by God's grace.

 

[Andrew]

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3:31

Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Romans 2:6

 

[Andrew]

This one reminds me of MC

 

[MoreCoffee]

The word purge is in the bible. At least it is in real 73 book bibles

Oh look, purge is also in the KJV.

2 Chronicles 34:3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

Psalms 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Psalms 65:3 Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away.

Psalms 79:9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

Isaiah 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

Ezekiel 20:38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 43:20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.

Ezekiel 43:26 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Malachi 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifer of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Tobit 12:9 For alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin. Those that exercise alms and righteousness shall be filled with life:​

 

[MennoSota]

Gods grace leads to repentance.

Correct. Repentance is an effect of God's grace.

We are saved by grace through faith and faith without works is dead.

Saved by grace. (a gift, unmerited)
Faith is given (a gift, unmerited)
Works are an effect of God's unmerited gift of faith. (Read Ephesians 2:1-10)

Not by our own works, so noone should boast.

Correct, faith is not something we conjure up by our own willpower.

Repentance is not a work.

Sure it is. It is an act of your will to choose to repent. You can choose not to repent as well. Repentance is not an unmerited favor that you have no control over.

Call everyone to repentance.

Absolutely, but only those who are made alive can confess their sins and be forgiven. Dead men cannot repent.

A work is doing good things.

A work is any action of the will to effect a change. Repentance is a work.

Repentance is seeing you do nothing good and can't even and ask God to do it.

A dead man cannot ask. Even you mentioned that it had to "dawn on me" before you could repent. Your very testimony makes my point.

The proof of being saved is good works.

Not necessarily. Most Muslims do better works than you or me. Does that prove they are saved?
Humans, attempting to be saved by their own merit, may buffet their bodies and subdue their will in an attempt to find favor with God. The Bible says that they will always miss the mark. Always.
The result of being saved is a changed life where the person is given the Holy Spirit as a Counselor to sanctify them and shape them in the image of Christ. Good works are an effect of God's adoption.

Paul worked his socks off with good works, cause the love of Christ drew him, cause he was saved by grace.

Indeed, Paul sought to be obedient to his King. It was the effect of God’s amazing grace.

 

[MennoSota]

As we all know, we can never stay on topic because "someone" always has to... well, let the picture speak for itself
(I love this one)

There is a simple fix. Read your Bible and stop making salvation be through works.

 

[MennoSota]

No it's the very thing Paul teaches, to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It's what Jesus says. Hear My Words and do them. Revelations. Repent and do your first works again.
Galatians, that's about circumcision and other Mosaic laws.

Honestly, can you butcher a verse any worse than your quote of Paul's comment to the Philipians? Make another thread so we can do an exegesis of that passage because you don't have a clue what Paul is referring to.

 

[TurtleHare]

Correct. Repentance is an effect of God's grace.

Saved by grace. (a gift, unmerited)
Faith is given (a gift, unmerited)
Works are an effect of God's unmerited gift of faith. (Read Ephesians 2:1-10)

Correct, faith is not something we conjure up by our own willpower.

Sure it is. It is an act of your will to choose to repent. You can choose not to repent as well. Repentance is not an unmerited favor that you have no control over.

Absolutely, but only those who are made alive can confess their sins and be forgiven. Dead men cannot repent.

A work is any action of the will to effect a change. Repentance is a work.

A dead man cannot ask. Even you mentioned that it had to "dawn on me" before you could repent. Your very testimony makes my point.

Not necessarily. Most Muslims do better works than you or me. Does that prove they are saved?
Humans, attempting to be saved by their own merit, may buffet their bodies and subdue their will in an attempt to find favor with God. The Bible says that they will always miss the mark. Always.
The result of being saved is a changed life where the person is given the Holy Spirit as a Counselor to sanctify them and shape them in the image of Christ. Good works are an effect of God's adoption.

Indeed, Paul sought to be obedient to his King. It was the effect of God’s amazing grace.

Yeehaw! It is certainly a pleasure reading your posts on here and seeing that you are like me in pointing salvation entirely to God and not back at our belly buttons which is the tendency of man to want to do and play some role in his being save. Grace isn't grace if we have to assist God as if he can't do it without us and that reminds me of how Jesus told about the sheep and how one got lost and the shepherd went out to find it and bring it back to the fold and then he went on to compare that to repentance and the point is that men forget the first part of the parable in how the shepherd shows what repentance is with the shepherd going out to rescue the sheep and not the sheep assisting which is ridiculous if you stop and think about it!