Trump may sign new executive order on health care soon

[tango]

Yes, in many cases that is what Trump has tried to do. Unfortunately, he can't get the Republicans in Congress to agree on a path forward with health care, so he's trying to go it alone. I won't what is going to happen when Republicans don't have a majority anymore and he's forced to work with Nancy and the Democrats. I could see that happening at the next mid term elections.

I think the best course of action would be to require members of Congress to source health care using the Marketplace and pay full price out of their own pockets. I'll bet the system would be sorted within a month or two at the most.

 

[Imalive]

I think the best course of action would be to require members of Congress to source health care using the Marketplace and pay full price out of their own pockets. I'll bet the system would be sorted within a month or two at the most.

That's the best. We used to have that here.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If I lived in the USA I'd move to Canada

Canadians have universal health care. That is probably why they live longer (on average) than USA people. People in Australia also live longer (on average) than do USA people. Good medical care probably extends life by a number of years (on average).

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

If I lived in the USA I'd move to Canada

Canadians have universal health care. That is probably why they live longer (on average) than USA people. People in Australia also live longer (on average) than do USA people. Good medical care probably extends life by a number of years (on average).

Unfortunately, relocating to another country isn't as easy as it might sound. It's not all about the money, either.

 

[tango]

If I lived in the USA I'd move to Canada

Canadians have universal health care. That is probably why they live longer (on average) than USA people. People in Australia also live longer (on average) than do USA people. Good medical care probably extends life by a number of years (on average).

Universal health care isn't always as good as it sounds. The UK has it but sometimes the treatment you actually get would be comical if peoples' lives weren't at stake.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Universal health care isn't always as good as it sounds. The UK has it but sometimes the treatment you actually get would be comical if peoples' lives weren't at stake.

UK people also live longer (on average) than USA people. Gotta think that universal health cover helps.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Unfortunately, relocating to another country isn't as easy as it might sound. It's not all about the money, either.

True. Very true. Fortunately I have citizenship in Canada, the UK, and Australia. I also have Swedish citizenship and they have universal health cover too. It's all good for me

 

[Imalive]

Universal health care isn't always as good as it sounds. The UK has it but sometimes the treatment you actually get would be comical if peoples' lives weren't at stake.

Yes it was nice when there was money enough. There are great cancer meds they dont use cause its too expensive.
Those healthcare jerks just ask way too much.
Let em come to our church, we pray for free.

 

[Albion]

UK people also live longer (on average) than USA people. Gotta think that universal health cover helps.

It didn't seem to work that way for baby Charlie Gard, tho. :saddd:

 

[tango]

UK people also live longer (on average) than USA people. Gotta think that universal health cover helps.

If you aren't killed by medical incompetence, or live in the sense of having a painful condition that just drags on because it wasn't properly treated. There's more to the picture than merely how many years someone lives.

 

[tango]

Yes it was nice when there was money enough. There are great cancer meds they dont use cause its too expensive.
Those healthcare jerks just ask way too much.
Let em come to our church, we pray for free.

Part of the problem is the price of medication but then the pharmaceutical companies have to make a profit to cover the costs of research and development of drugs, including the ones that never went anywhere. Another part is that government run healthcare systems should be large enough purchasers that they can negotiate the price way down yet always seem to end up paying top dollar for everything.

And then there's the institutionalised incompetence that you have to see to believe. The incompetence within parts of the NHS is truly mind boggling.

 

[Josiah]

This is a very, very complex issue..... the heathcare thing is HUGE in the USA..... This isn't like fixing a squeeky door.

I doubt the problem is the wonderful blessing of the pharmaceutical companies developing life-saving, life-enriching medicines (even though corporate greed is not unseen there). MUCH of the world benefits from this aspect of the American health care system. I suspect PART of the problem in the USA is that we expect to live and act as we want - and if anything hurts or goes wrong, it's the JOB of the doctors and health care system to make me feel better so that I can continue to act irresponsibly.

ILLUSTRATION: Someone's feet hurt. They go to the doctor whose sole responsibility is to make the pain go away immediately (or better yet, retroactively). The doc is expected to be very sympathetic and to DO something! Prescribe some pill (doesn't matter the cost, that's what insurance and government welfare is for), just prescribe SOMETHING so that the doc is doing his job. What if the doctor said, "Hun, just loose 50 pounds and give your poor feet a chance!!!" What would happen? The American could just go out and make an appointment with some other doctor who will DO something, maybe prescribe that uber-expensive drug we see advertised on TV all the time..... and file a complaint about the rude, lazy, doctor guilty of malpractice.

I suspect PART of the problem is not that our "system" develops wonderful, amazing drugs (often at ENORMOUS cost) that blessed people all over the world.... I wonder if part of the problem is that many Amercians are taking LOTS of drugs, many of them very expensive, undergoing LOTS of tests, undergoing LOTS of proceedures - simply because they demand the health care system empower them to be fat and lazy and live on fast and junk food.... and that my being pain free, sleeping well, having great sex, all this and more is 100% the responsibility of the health care system. The patient being a 100 pounds over weight, junk eating couch potato has nothing to do with anything. I wonder if PART of the problem is cultural?


Sorry.



- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Many other western nations have found viable ways to provide health care for their people. Maybe the USA could learn from lessons that are provided by those other nation's ways of meeting the need.

 

[tango]

This is a very, very complex issue..... the heathcare thing is HUGE in the USA..... This isn't like fixing a squeeky door.

I doubt the problem is the wonderful blessing of the pharmaceutical companies developing life-saving, life-enriching medicines (even though corporate greed is not unseen there). MUCH of the world benefits from this aspect of the American health care system. I suspect PART of the problem in the USA is that we expect to live and act as we want - and if anything hurts or goes wrong, it's the JOB of the doctors and health care system to make me feel better so that I can continue to act irresponsibly.

I have to think you're largely right there. In the UK you sometimes see someone who is really unbelievably fat. In the US it's far from rare to see people who weigh 400, 500, or more. I remember in the UK when I was just a little under 300 pounds it became increasingly difficult to find clothes that fit. That in itself was something of a wakeup call that I needed to shed a bit of weight because otherwise I'd be shedding a lot of money paying top prices for the few places that did carry clothes big enough. The issue was when my 42-inch pants were snug and I was trying to find pants with a 44-inch waist. In the US that wakeup call doesn't happen - it seems easy to find pants with a 56-inch waist and bigger still if you need it. Throw in a culture where people drive if something is more than 100 yards away and so much food is loaded with fat and sugar, and it's easy to see why people get so fat. And then, once people are so fat they use a mobility scooter to get around, they continue to eat their own body weight in popcorn and ice cream.

ILLUSTRATION: Someone's feet hurt. They go to the doctor whose sole responsibility is to make the pain go away immediately (or better yet, retroactively). The doc is expected to be very sympathetic and to DO something! Prescribe some pill (doesn't matter the cost, that's what insurance and government welfare is for), just prescribe SOMETHING so that the doc is doing his job. What if the doctor said, "Hun, just loose 50 pounds and give your poor feet a chance!!!" What would happen? The American could just go out and make an appointment with some other doctor who will DO something, maybe prescribe that uber-expensive drug we see advertised on TV all the time..... and file a complaint about the rude, lazy, doctor guilty of malpractice.

That's certainly another issue, the idea that whatever is wrong there must be a pill that makes it go away so I don't have to do anything about it myself. You know, shovel lard into your mouth and when you gain weight it's someone else's fault and hey, you pay your insurance so you're entitled to a pill that solves everything, right?

A while back a friend of mine was told by his doctor that he was pre-diabetic and needed to lose some weight. So he initiated a new regime, he watched what he ate and made a point of climbing the stairs in his house at least 50 times every day. After three months he was visibly much slimmer, he needed to go and buy new clothes because his old clothes hung on him, and the doctor said that seeing him actually do something about the situation was unexpected because most people just figured they'd be going on insulin shots and did nothing about it.

I suspect PART of the problem is not that our "system" develops wonderful, amazing drugs (often at ENORMOUS cost) that blessed people all over the world.... I wonder if part of the problem is that many Amercians are taking LOTS of drugs, many of them very expensive, undergoing LOTS of tests, undergoing LOTS of proceedures - simply because they demand the health care system empower them to be fat and lazy and live on fast and junk food.... and that my being pain free, sleeping well, having great sex, all this and more is 100% the responsibility of the health care system. The patient being a 100 pounds over weight, junk eating couch potato has nothing to do with anything. I wonder if PART of the problem is cultural?

Part of the problem is also the way insurance works. I've personally seen a doctor perform totally unnecessary tests on an elderly patient (apparently they needed to see if her condition was hereditary, despite the fact she had no children and no surviving blood relatives under the age of about 60), presumably because she had comprehensive insurance that would pay for just about anything. She was old enough that she didn't challenge or even question what the doctor said, so the tests were done. In the meantime people without insurance struggle to get needed tests because there's no money for them. Likewise insurance drives up the price of everything - another personal experience was needing a prescription that was going to be something like $75 but as soon as I said I was paying cash it mysteriously dropped to less than half that. A hospital bill was $800, reduced to $400 if paid within 14 days. What can we conclude from this other than that going through insurance companies increases prices by 100% or more?

I suspect another issue is the idea that being morbidly obese is classed as a disability, thereby making it even less likely anything will be done about it. Of course there are people who have mobility issues that in turn cause weight gain (it doesn't take a genius to figure a quadriplegic is unlikely to take much exercise) but it's frankly hard to believe that every single person who weighs more than double their ideal weight, stuffing their face with a supersize portion of lard, is best served by being given a mobility scooter and a disabled badge, and assured that their condition is a disability rather than the result of their poor decisions.

 

[Albion]

Have we established that people in the USA do not have access to health care?? From what I know, there is no one who is flatly excluded by our "system" from receiving care when it's needed.

 

[tango]

Have we established that people in the USA do not have access to health care?? From what I know, there is no one who is flatly excluded by our "system" from receiving care when it's needed.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is the the ER isn't allowed to turn people away based on inability to pay but doctors are and do. In a way it makes sense to have to pay something to see the doctor - in the UK where there is no charge at the point of use there's certainly abuse of the freedom - but at the same time it doesn't make a lot of sense to allow conditions to deteriorate to the point an ER visit is necessary when it could have been treated sooner for much less cost.

I'd also be curious to know what "unable to afford" is actually taken to mean. If you go to the ER and emerge with a bill for many tens of thousands of dollars, do they simply come after any savings or investments you may have, or are you expected to sell your home and car to pay the bill? (This is a serious question, I don't know the answer). If the latter it's not much of a choice to know that going to the hospital might treat your condition but might also see you living out your days in a cardboard box under a bridge. Even without being quite so dramatic it would be concerning if a condition that was sufficiently debilitating to make it impossible to work could be treated but only at the cost of your car, thereby making it impossible to get to work.

 

[psalms 91]

Many do not have health care and if Trump has his way millions will be without it

 

[Albion]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but my understanding is the the ER isn't allowed to turn people away based on inability to pay but doctors are and do.

I believe that's correct as regards ERs, but if individual doctors take or refuse patients--which is done all the time--that doesn't mean that those who are not accepted by them have no recourse. The poorest people I know are able to see doctors, thanks to one government assistance program or another.

If you go to the ER and emerge with a bill for many tens of thousands of dollars, do they simply come after any savings or investments you may have, or are you expected to sell your home and car to pay the bill?

I can't speak as an expert, but when it comes to the very poor, hospitals normally "eat" the cost of those people's care. Of course, if someone comes into the ER and needs longer-term care, they will be hospitalized and not put out on the street.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Have we established that people in the USA do not have access to health care?? From what I know, there is no one who is flatly excluded by our "system" from receiving care when it's needed.

I know a USA person who has gallstones, ought to have surgery to remove the gallbladder but cannot afford it and his health cover does not cover it so he hasn't had the surgery.

 

[tango]

Many do not have health care and if Trump has his way millions will be without it

I'm not sure how this adds to the discussion?