( Insert Church here) by Choice and Why Thread

Confessional Lutheran

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Hey, I'm just going to post this real quick before I go to work. I'll get into it in more detail later, but I am a member of a Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod church as an answer to prayer. I was looking for a Biblically based, liturgical church whose doctrine didn't deviate from area to area, as I saw the difference between the Catholic Church in Northern Virginia and the Catholic Church in Northeast Florida was so great, one could hardly think them to be the same church. One was a lot more liberal than the other. God led me to a church in walking distance that was LCMS. I now open this to the rest of the forum, should anybody choose to participate. God bless and God willing, I'll check up on this later tonight.
 

Josiah

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I'm Lutheran by choice (a convert from Catholicism).


See posts 20 and 21




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Albion

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Hi, Confessional Lutheran. I am an Anglican because IMO it is the mainline of Christianity, neither succumbing to the errors of the Roman Church nor to the innovations of most of the Protestant churches.

It is said that Anglicanism is both Catholic and Protestant, Apostolic but also reformed--which I would say is true and not just a bunch of slogans. It has retained the defining aspects of both while not going in for the fringe beliefs of either side. It is Biblical, but values Tradition. It has a statement of beliefs, accepts the historic Creeds, and yet is not legalistic. Of course, I appreciate the liturgy and a dignified worship service, just as you do.

It should be noted that the recent turmoil in and the decline of certain provinces such as The Episcopal Church in the USA may cause some readers to doubt all of this, but I'm answering with the wider picture in mind (just as you did when you posted about Lutheranism).
 
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MoreCoffee

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I became a Catholic without any specific prayer. I was not aiming for a liturgical church. I was not looking for something with a long history. I was not keen on air-tight doctrine. Nor was I keen on loosely defined doctrine. I'd come to appreciate that in my atheist world view goodness could be pursued but it was rather arbitrary. Being good and defining what goodness was was no easy task as an atheist. And I also had reached the conclusion that to me goodness matters. It still matters now. God could give a basis for defining goodness and reasons for pursuing it.

I'd recently read the gospel according to saint Matthew. And it was helpful. I'd read it before a number of times. I spent many years as a Presbyterian. Some as a Baptist. A year and some as a Pentecostal. And long ago a bit of time reading some of the books published by Jehovah's witnesses. I even tried to read The Book of Mormon but could hardly get past the weird illustrations. I managed about 10 pages before tossing it aside and never returning to it.

Saint Matthew talked about goodness and faith and compassion and numerous other things.

So how did this lead to Catholicism. This is how. After deciding the goodness mattered I visited a church. It was a Uniting Church - an Australian denomination made up of the union of Methodist, Presbyterian, and Congregationalist denominations. I visited once. It was okay. The pastor was a lady and she was kindly. The congregation was mainly elderly folk. There were few of them. So after that I had a few months away from any churches. Then near Easter I visited a local Catholic parish, not the one I am in now. I attended on Good Friday. It was confronting. I'd never been to a liturgical service before. The priest broke into chant at various points in the liturgy and that surprised me. He was not a very good preacher nevertheless what he said was thoughtful and biblical. The next day I went to a Easter Vigil Mass at the parish I now attend. It was very close to my home. So it was about a 60 second drive to get there. I'd never seen the like of that mass before. I liked it.

A couple of months later I emailed the parish and inquired about Catholicism. A week or so after that the parish pastoral worker replied. She was sister in one of the orders - I cannot remember which - and she was kindly. I chatted with her and she invited me to attend their Rite of Christians Initiation of Adults (RCIA) sessions starting in July. I had a few more interviews with her prior to the start of RCIA. She spoke to the pastor (he was new in the parish) and asked if I could skip RCIA because I already knew Catholic teaching rather well - I'd read a Catechism called The Teaching of Christ over the years since the days I was Presbyterian. He said I ought to take my time and do RCIA so I did.

That's how I became a Catholic. RCIA lasted until the Easter Vigil Mass in the year after I started RCIA. A total of about 9 months.
 
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NewCreation435

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While my membership is at a Southern Baptist church, I have been attending a non denominational church the last few months. I felt called to try something different after I had a bad experience in a Baptist church and the non denominational church I attended has great teaching every week and a good amount of service opportunities which was important to me.
 

psalms 91

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I go to a non-denom church and also to the Methodist church. I am at the Methodist mainly for service opportunities and the non-denom for the teaching
 

Imalive

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Non denom I think, no idea, it has no name.
Why?
Well I didnt want to go anymore, but my son said:
Mom you have to go to dads church! Its the best!!
LOL
 
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Tigger

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I go to a non-denom church and also to the Methodist church. I am at the Methodist mainly for service opportunities and the non-denom for the teaching

Mind if I ask why the Word of faith icon?
 

Imalive

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Mind if I ask why the Word of faith icon?

He went to a Word of Faith Bible school, the teaching is a mix of evangelic/ pentecostal/ Word of Faith. But he only picked some stuff out of it from the Bible school, we're not like other real Word of Faith churches I've seen here. Also not like evangelicals here and also not like pentecostal churches. I used to call it charismatic but since the charismania we surely don't call it that. No name. We're christian.
 

psalms 91

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Mind if I ask why the Word of faith icon?
Because I believe in healing, supplying and providing and all the gifts of the spirit, while I will admit that some carry it to excess it is closest to what I believe.
 

Imalive

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Because I believe in healing, supplying and providing and all the gifts of the spirit, while I will admit that some carry it to excess it is closest to what I believe.

Ah yes, that's the answer. Me too.
 

MennoSota

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My dad was a missionary pastor in northern Minnesota. My background is Mennonite.
I went to what I would call a hodge-podge bible school out of high school. If you understand theological labels, it was semi-pelagian. A semi-pelagian can attend nearly any Evanjellyfish church and fit in with the worship. I attended some assembly of God, covenant, baptist, mennonite and non-denom. Through all this I kept reading my Bible and I was struck by God's activity in choosing his servants out of the rest of the world. From the fall to Revelation I read about God choosing, electing and predestinating people by his will for his glory. I ended up reading books by Arthur Pink and CH Spurgeon and how they viewed scripture resonated with how I was viewing scripture. It turned out that I was following a path similar to Augustine and Calvin.
I didn't really know what a "Calvinist" church looked like, but I happened upon a baptist church where the pastor was John Piper. One of the sunday school teachers was Tom Schreiner who is now a prof at Southern Theological Seminary in Louisville. Their teaching kept challenging my semi-pelagian questions and over time I have accepted what people call Calvinism as my understanding of scripture. It is an odd path because Mennonites are Arminian at heart. For me it has simply been a progression of change as I read my bible. Liturgical or extemporaneous is less important than being a Berean in spirit and questioning denominational teaching to see if it aligns with God's word. Tradition, while having value, is only good if it is subordinate to the Bible and God's word. Thus, I feel that challenging tradition is important when tradition seems blatantly opposed to the Bible. I note that every church on earth can therefore be questioned because tradition can take our eyes off from God.
 

Josiah

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... always interesting to me how many active Christians these days are converts. Some more than once. I think this is a mostly new thing.

I've often learned that converts tend to be rather zealous, more so than the "cradle" members - and I guess that makes sense.

I'm just such a "convert". For ME, the leaving was very difficult and I was very hesitant, it was NOT something I wanted to do. The finding a new church was surprisingly easy - especially since I had NOT A CLUE where I would go, that part was rather easy and pleasant; I quickly found a home and felt very, very good about it. I think for SOME, there are a lot of social pressures. That I also didn't face: my parents, my family and friends (even my VERY Catholic ones) - they were surprisingly supportive, even helpful. One of my most treasured Catholic teachers even came to my Lutheran Confirmation, kind of a big deal because it was a Sunday morning and she (and her family) had a lot of Sunday responsibilities, but there she was - with her husband and kids, at my (not close!) Lutheran church, to support me being Confirmed Lutheran. I can't say how much I appreciated that. But I KNOW that's not real common....


[Edit: True Story - A couple of years after my conversion, I actually (purely by chance) ran into my Catholic Deacon. We chatted and I told him I had become a Lutheran. He leaned over and said, "Please tell me it's Missouri Synod." I said yes. He patted me on the back and said, "Well done." THAT attitude also is new, I suspect.]



- Josiah




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Andrew

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So many converts are from Catholicism. With all its creeds and explanations it sure does leave people thirsty, but blessed are the meek the Catholic church has a legit history, and history is never pretty to begin with.

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Confessional Lutheran

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Okay, I'm back. Well, let me get started right away by saying that I was brought up as a Southern Baptist and their emphasis on Scripture is certainly something I appreciated. In Sunday School, I was the guy who asked some pretty tough questions ( I had been interested in Church History from a rather early age and since my maternal grandmother was born and raised as a Catholic, I was very interested in Catholic history). Baptist worship seemed dull to me ( I liked the retreats. Summit Lake in Emmitsburg, Maryland was a favorite place to go in the Fall) and I asked about the whole " is" deal. It was explained to me that they accepted the " this do in remembrance of me" ( which were the words carved into the Communion table in the Sanctuary), meaning they thought of the Lord's Supper as a memorial. I could never accept that. I was like a block I couldn't get past.

When I was fourteen, I walked up to the Communion table after the Altar call and expressed my wish to get baptized. I felt that I needed to get that done as soon as I could and if I were to convert to Catholicism ( which I'd already determined to do), I wouldn't have to worry about being baptized again. Not that I actually said this to my Baptist Reverend Foreman ( Rev. Foreman was my childhood minister, he married my parents, that kind of thing). So, I got baptized. When my Sunday School class graduated from High School, we each received a copy of CS Lewis' " Mere Christianity" from the youth minister, Morgan Jones.

I waited, read, read some more and kind of blinded myself to anything except the Roman Catholic Church. In late 1994, I started RCIA at St. Anne's Catholic Church in Bristol, VA. I was confirmed at All Saints Catholic Church in Manassas, VA at Easter of 1995 ( I lived a pretty dissolute life during my first semester in College, away from home. I flunked out and went back in the Fall of 1995). The Richmond Diocese, let it be said, was a good deal more liberal in its attitudes than the Arlington Diocese of Virginia. I went to Mass every Sunday, Confession every month, read my morning and evening prayers and kept up my Bible reading ( I'd started that habit before I was baptized). I was quite content as a Catholic, but I wasn't really doing anything except following the rules. I made two or three friends at the parish, a few more at the Catholic Campus Ministry at George Mason University. Yes, I went to some Catholic functions in College and prayed the Rosary every month. I drifted away from the Faith for awhile, but returned and got my marriage convalidated by the Catholic Church in late 2008. I'd married a Wiccan and I was dabbling in Buddhism for awhile.

We moved down to Florida, where we tried to attend St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Jacksonville and then San Sebastian's in St. Augustine. My wife and I quarreled a lot. That was just part of the marriage. She gets bored, picks a fight and I'd apologize later. I was isolated, without any real means of support, my family being back in Northern Virginia. I prayed for discernment and I also prayed for God to lead me to a place where I could be of most use to His people. I'd looked at Lutheranism before, but it was a liberal variety. My girlfriend at the time ( 2003- 2004) was a Lutheran of the ELCA bent and when our daughter was born in 2004, we had her christened as an ELCA Lutheran. Her and her mother still attend one of their churches in West Virginia. Fast forward to 2012. I was in despair. I wanted to get back to the basics in Scripture and liturgy and I didn't want to attend a liberal church.

I discussed this with my wife and she agreed to try an LCMS or WELS church. We called Hope Lutheran Church in Jacksonville first. They were a mission church at the time. They met in a former office building in walking distance from our condo. So, we went and we were embraced by that congregation. There was a Lifetree Café program ( a guided discussion) that my wife ( eventually her parents, too) and I volunteered at. We volunteered to help out with the Altar Guild and after a couple of months, around December, we asked about being received into membership. We took some New to Lutheranism classes and in February ( the later part of February), we made our Reaffirmation of Faith with a couple of other people and were received into Hope Lutheran Church ( when I transferred to Hope in Manassas, I had to make a similar declaration of faith as a transfer).

It feels good to actually be a part of a Church where I'm close to people. When my wife decided to divorce me, the people of Hope helped me enormously, as did the Pastor. I was a Lector, worked as a member of the Altar Guild and volunteered in other ways. When I finally returned to Virginia, I worked as a Sunday School teacher for awhile here at Hope Lutheran in Manassas, I work as an usher and volunteer as a lector. I was the Church Council Secretary for two years. I enjoy the rite of Private Confession and Absolution when I need it and the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper every Sunday. I read my chapters of the Bible and some articles from Concordia, the Book of Lutheran Confessions as part of my daily devotions. I love the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod ( not everybody will go to the lengths that these people have for me. I'd be hard put not to do the same for them) and completely agree with the theology.
 
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Albion

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Because I believe in healing, supplying and providing and all the gifts of the spirit, while I will admit that some carry it to excess it is closest to what I believe.

Not that we want to cross-examine you, but Word of Faith is a denomination. We assumed that you are a member of that denomination and more or less reflect whatever it is that WOF teaches.

Isn't there an icon for Charismatic or Pentecostal or something like that which isn't strictly denominational??

In fact, the lineup of religious icons we choose from is messy all round. Some people name their denomination and others just say Christian or Protestant. Others say non-denominational when they mean that they don't go to church, which isn't what most people associate with the term. I wish it were possible to clean some of that up, mainly because we all are faced with trying to figure out where the poster is "coming from" when something is posted that seems ambiguous or confusing.
 

psalms 91

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OK if that is confusing I changed to charasmatic
 

Albion

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Imalive

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Oh I don't even have that dove anymore. I have a cross now. I had WOF a while.
Oh LOL Tigger asked Psalms91, not me. I thought I still had that WOF thing and he asked me. Was wondering why Bill answered hahahahahahaha. I want that dove too now. It's the nicest looking icon.
 

Josiah

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I converted from Catholicism to Lutheranism (LCMS)....


Why I LEFT the RCC:


1. I disagree that Christians are a specific institutional denomination, the RCC as the RCC itself alone so insists for itself alone. The egotistical, divisive, INSTITUTIONAL, self-centered, self-serving, power-grabbing, truth-evading, accountability-denying claims of it itself alone for it itself alone was something I found to be unbiblical, unreasonable and absurd. I came to believe that Christians are PEOPLE, and so the "assembly, community, gathering, communion" of PEOPLE is also PEOPLE - not a denominational, geopolitical, legal, denomination. I rejected the self-serving ecclesiology of the RCC. I came to embrace the ancient creed: one, holy, catholic communion of believers. And thus all the obsession the RCC has with itself, all the enormous e power-grabbing, "lording-it-over-all-as-the-Gentiles-do" of the RCC increasingly revealed to me that the RCC is wrong. In what is the foundation of the RCC, the key point on which it stands or falls. The claims of the RCC here are not only unbiblical and unhistorical - but dangerous and wrong.


2. I came to reject the epistemology of "just swallow WHATEVER I'M officially saying because I'M saying it." This "just drink whatever I'M feeding 'ya" rubric (CCC 87, etc.). The foundational epistemology of the RCC. Over and over and over in Scripture (OT and NT) we are told to beware of false teachings - yet the RCC forbids this. Jesus praised Christians for doing this - yet the RCC condemns that (Rev. 2:2, etc.). I came to embrace that the TRUE TEACHER is likely to come into the light, to welcome the light, to insist on accountability - because TRUTH would matter, not the unmitigated power and lordship of self alone over all. It is the teacher of FALSEHOOD who is likely to hide in the dark, reject the light, insist on building around self huge, thick, divisive walls of egotistical and power grabbing and self serving claims of self for self, insisting that he alone just be given a "pass" on truthfulness and that all just swallow whatever self alone says cuz self alone is saying it and self alone tells all to do that. Now.... I DO agree with a sense of "authority" but Catholicism (and also all the cults) confuse authority with dictatorship. There is a BALANCE between authority and responsibility, a balance the RCC has entirely, wholly, completely, absolutely abandoned - ironcially becoming the very thing it PRETENDS to reject: self appointing self the sole and UNACCOUNTABLE teacher, interpreter, judge, jury - a dictator. Now, what seems interesting to me is that generally, Catholicism is very sound, I have a huge respect for Catholic scholarship, and I think RCC theology is generally excellent. I am profoundly impressed with much of Catholic doctrinal history. So why the RCC retreats into a very unbiblical, unsound, dangerous, "cultic" epistemology puzzles me - but it does.


3. A "Catholic" by Catholic definition is one who just docilicly swallows what the RCC feeds them... BECAUSE it itself alone does. Truth is irrelevant, the only point is the RCC shouting "don't be insubordinate to ME!!!!!!!" That's the whole enchilada. Either you do - and thus you are Catholic, or you don't and thus you aren't. This finally dawned on me. While I largely AGREED with the RCC (I still agree with probably 95% of what it teaches - doctrinally and morally), I agreed with it MORE than the great majority of "Catholics" (I MUST put that in quotation marks!), I was not Catholic at all. What I accepted I did because I viewed it as true and sound - NOT because I was blindly being subordinate. I was what our deacon so powerfully condemned as the "greatest threat to the Catholic Church since Gnosticism" - I was a "Protestant hiding in the Church" as he characterized it, what he regarded as much WORSE than a "Cafeteria Catholic" which he also insisted were by definition not Catholic at all. If one doesn't mindlessly accept the ecclesiology and epistemology of the RCC - and thus SUBMIT to it (right or wrong, good or sound), then one is not a Catholic. Then I'm not Catholic. In MY view, my leaving was a move of integrity, honesty, character: an unwillingness to lie, to give false witness.


On the flip side.....


1. I agreed with the RC Denomination on nearly everything. Probably 95% of the 2,865 points of the latest edition of the RC Catechism was fully acceptable to me, I fully agreed with such. My own pastor told me that my embrace of Catholic teaching is "a whole lot better than most Catholics!" and he was right. But 95% is not the 100% demanded of me. Of the 5%, some things were not unacceptable to me - I simply could not docilicly state my absolute, full agreement (including to the level claimed). For example, I don't DENY the Perpetual Virginity of Mary or the Assumption of Mary - but I can't HONESTLY state that I affirm these as "matters of highest certainty and importance possible." I don't reject them but I don't accept them either. My only points of real disagreement are in the areas of ecclesiology (the doctrine of the church) and epistemology (accountability and norming). These include the De Fide Dogma of the Infallibility of the RCC's own Bishop of Rome, the self-declaration of the RCC that the RCC can't be wrong (in some things). I have an "issue" with the dogmas of Purgatory and Transubstantiation but those were by no means "deal breakers" - I didn't leave because of those. To this day, I think I AGREE with the RCC more than most Catholics known to me (certainly more than most of my family members).


2. I LOVED the worship in Catholicism. I still do. I'm very liturgical and Sacramental. I loved the tradition, the way worship is VERY carefully prepared and done, the beautiful music, even the "choreography" was embrace (doing the Sign, the kneeling, etc.) This is a powerful draw keeping me in Catholicism.


3. I very, very much respected (still do) the willingness of the RC Denomination to stand up for biblical morality and values, it's very "pro-family" and "pro-life" stance. In fact, I'm very disappointed that this seems to be waning. I'm very passionately pro-life. While so many denominations seem to stand by and say or do little ... or even stand with sin and wrong.... the RCC has the "guts" to say what is right. I totally like how Mother Teresa stood up to President Clinton on the issue of abortion! I like how Popes and Bishops have been bold voices for peace. I don't always agree with the RCC on these things (not ALWAYS) but I give it a LOT of credit for standing up for what it sees as right. Many churches have become whimps at best.


Due to length, this continues in the next post.....




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