False teachers

[psalms 91]

Cant use carnal reasoning is a valid point except to those who prefer carnal reasoning which the bible says will never understand spiritual

 

[MoreCoffee]

Cant use carnal reasoning is a valid point except to those who prefer carnal reasoning which the bible says will never understand spiritual

Calling an objection 'carnal' does not make it so. Just like calling an abuse 'spiritual' does not make it so.

 

[tango]

Cant use carnal reasoning is a valid point except to those who prefer carnal reasoning which the bible says will never understand spiritual

But it isn't a valid point unless it's backed by something useful. If all an argument has to stand on is that its opponents can't use carnal reasoning then there's no sense in having any reason in the universe at all.

I could claim there were pink unicorns dancing around the bushes at the end of my garden, and reject all questioning by saying "I know in my heart they are there" and telling people they are using carnal reasoning. We could do the same about the dragons that fly around my town. I could be a great prophet speaking the words of God, and write off anyone seeking to test my proclamations by claiming they were using carnal reasoning. Whatever stance you want to take and support with vague comments about not using carnal reasoning falls down because I could take the exact opposite stance and support it using the exact same argument. Any time one argument supports two diametrically opposed viewpoints we know something is wrong. But then maybe that too is carnal reasoning.

Serious question, when that sort of approach just results in everything and nothing being true wouldn't you rather have an objective standard of truth we could all fall back on at the same time, rather than having different people proposing different things (some sensible, some so far out it's not funny), all insisting that they know in their hearts that it is true and all insisting that anyone who opposes them is using carnal reasoning and just doesn't "get it"?

 

[psalms 91]

But it isn't a valid point unless it's backed by something useful. If all an argument has to stand on is that its opponents can't use carnal reasoning then there's no sense in having any reason in the universe at all.

I could claim there were pink unicorns dancing around the bushes at the end of my garden, and reject all questioning by saying "I know in my heart they are there" and telling people they are using carnal reasoning. We could do the same about the dragons that fly around my town. I could be a great prophet speaking the words of God, and write off anyone seeking to test my proclamations by claiming they were using carnal reasoning. Whatever stance you want to take and support with vague comments about not using carnal reasoning falls down because I could take the exact opposite stance and support it using the exact same argument. Any time one argument supports two diametrically opposed viewpoints we know something is wrong. But then maybe that too is carnal reasoning.

Serious question, when that sort of approach just results in everything and nothing being true wouldn't you rather have an objective standard of truth we could all fall back on at the same time, rather than having different people proposing different things (some sensible, some so far out it's not funny), all insisting that they know in their hearts that it is true and all insisting that anyone who opposes them is using carnal reasoning and just doesn't "get it"?

It says that God will use the foolish to confound the wise, our standard is the bihble and we are to believe it as it is written

 

[Hammster]

It says that God will use the foolish to confound the wise, our standard is the bihble and we are to believe it as it is written

Right. And these false teachers you support do not believe the bible as written. They just make up crap that destroys lives.


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[psalms 91]

According to your interpretation. I fully believe that God heals and it is something that was bought and paid for in the atonement

 

[Brighten04]

According to your interpretation. I fully believe that God heals and it is something that was bought and paid for in the atonement

I believe this also. It is funny how satan wants us to believe that God's will is for us to sick when the word clearly says by His stripes we were(past tense) healed.

 

[tango]

It says that God will use the foolish to confound the wise, our standard is the bihble and we are to believe it as it is written

That doesn't mean that everybody who is foolish is there to confound the wise.

Our standard is the Bible, which is why it would be really nice to have a discussion that went back to the Bible rather than constantly fighting through endless comments about anointing and carnal reasoning.

Did you want to use the Bible to support the arguments you've been presenting?

 

[tango]

According to your interpretation. I fully believe that God heals and it is something that was bought and paid for in the atonement

I believe this also. It is funny how satan wants us to believe that God's will is for us to sick when the word clearly says by His stripes we were(past tense) healed.

Can either of you explain why Timothy wasn't healed, if healing was bought and paid for? The Word clearly says he had "frequent infirmities", which sits somewhat uneasily with the idea that healing is assured.

 

[Hammster]

I believe this also. It is funny how satan wants us to believe that God's will is for us to sick when the word clearly says by His stripes we were(past tense) healed.

Then Christians should never get sick.

Oh...wait


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

 

[Hammster]

According to your interpretation. I fully believe that God heals and it is something that was bought and paid for in the atonement

So you know of no Christians who have died from illness?


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[tango]

So you know of no Christians who have died from illness?


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Maybe they just didn't have enough faith?

 

[Hammster]

Maybe they just didn't have enough faith?

Where is that listed as a requirement?


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[psalms 91]

So you know of no Christians who have died from illness?


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Of course, how does that change the Word that says Isiah 53, that He shed His blood for out disease. To me that means that every drop that was shed from the garden to the cross bought and paid for healing

 

[psalms 91]

Where is that listed as a requirement?


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Faith as a requirement, lets see, for without faith it is impossible to please God, so is lack of faith sin? If so doesnt James say that the prayer of faith will heal and cleanse sin? If so doesnt this show that sin stops healing?

 

[tango]

Where is that listed as a requirement?


Sent from my iPhone using my right thumb.

Somewhere around the anointing, I believe.

 

[tango]

Faith as a requirement, lets see, for without faith it is impossible to please God, so is lack of faith sin? If so doesnt James say that the prayer of faith will heal and cleanse sin? If so doesnt this show that sin stops healing?

It still leaves open the question of why Timothy wasn't healed. Was Timothy's life riddled with sin?

James wrote that "the prayer of faith will save the sick" (some versions say "heal" instead of "save"), so perhaps Paul just didn't have faith.

James also wrote that the "prayer of a righteous man avails much" so maybe Paul just wasn't righteous. But then given what Paul wrote in Rom 3:10 ("There is none righteous, no, not one") maybe what James wrote was for theoretical reference only.

Hmmm... anyone would think we had to take the message of Scripture as a whole rather than picking individual verses.

 

[psalms 91]

Seems to me that all the verses that pertain to healing it isnt cherry picking, Mark 16 gives clear instruction to those who go forth about healing and a couple other things. Pretty clear to me, if it isnt happening I think we need to look to ourselves rather than looking to God to see why He changed considering it says that He doesnt change.

 

[tango]

Of course, how does that change the Word that says Isiah 53, that He shed His blood for out disease. To me that means that every drop that was shed from the garden to the cross bought and paid for healing

But sadly that healing didn't apply to poor Timothy, who was reduced to taking a little wine for his frequent infirmities. I wonder what poor Timothy did wrong, that this universal promise applied to everyone except him.

 

[tango]

Seems to me that all the verses that pertain to healing it isnt cherry picking, Mark 16 gives clear instruction to those who go forth about healing and a couple other things. Pretty clear to me, if it isnt happening I think we need to look to ourselves rather than looking to God to see why He changed considering it says that He doesnt change.

So what of verses like the one that makes clear Timothy wasn't healed? What of the thorn in Paul's flesh?

As for Mark 16, I'm led to believe that many scholars don't believe the passage at the end was in the original text at all.