What Do Christians believe?

Josiah

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The translation of the Creed above uses the plural form "we" but if my memory serves me well - and it may not - the creed in Greek uses the singular form "I".


If my memory serves me, the Creed (orginally in GREEK) used the plural - WE believe. The Council was very consistent about this. But when the western parishes translated it into Latin, they did so with the singular and this soon became common in the East, as well. But liturgically, it is fine to use either and both forms are found in both the EOC and the RCC denominations.


I found this at a Catholic website:

At Mass today we use the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Profession of Faith. When this text was translated into Latin, pisteuomen (we believe) was rendered asCredo (I believe).
https://www.franciscanmedia.org/i-believe-or-we-believe-in-the-nicene-creed/



In Lutheranism, both forms are found, both forms are equally permitted.



Back to the issue at hand....



- Josiah
 
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Lamb

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I believe both forms of the creed (I and We) are acceptable because for I we are giving our own personal faith statement. For We it is a corporate statement given by the body of believers.
 

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Read John 3:16-17. Need I say more. As that is enough.
 

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Read John 3:16-17. Need I say more. As that is enough.

Those are lovely verses that tell me that God loves the world. That is one thing that Christians believe.
 

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The incarnation is one more Christian belief that is common to all orthodox Christians. It is also stated in the early creeds - here is what the creed says on the incarnation.

The right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
 

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The incarnation is one more Christian belief that is common to all orthodox Christians. It is also stated in the early creeds - here is what the creed says on the incarnation.

The right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

What creed is that?
 

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There is also the Creed of Chalcedonian AD 451

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.
 

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There is also the Creed of Chalcedonian AD 451

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

The council of Chalcedon produced the following formula as an antidote to various Christological heresies that were current in and around 451 AD.
Dogmatic Definition of the Council of Chalcedon, 451
The sacred and great and universal synod by God's grace and by decree of your most religious and Christ-loving emperors Valentinian Augustus and Marcian Augustus assembled in Chalcedon, metropolis of the province of Bithynia, in the shrine of the saintly and triumphant martyr Euphemia, issues the following decrees.

In establishing his disciples in the knowledge of the faith, our lord and saviour Christ said: "My peace I give you, my peace I leave to you"', so that no one should disagree with his neighbour regarding religious doctrines but that the proclamation of the truth would be uniformly presented. But the evil one never stops trying to smother the seeds of religion with his own tares and is for ever inventing some novelty or other against the truth; so the Master, exercising his usual care for the human race, roused this religious and most faithful emperor to zealous action, and summoned to himself the leaders of the priesthood from everywhere, so that through the working of the grace of Christ, the master of all of us, every injurious falsehood might be staved off from the sheep of Christ and they might be fattened on fresh growths of the truth.

This is in fact what we have done. We have driven off erroneous doctrines by our collective resolution and we have renewed the unerring creed of the fathers. We have proclaimed to all the creed of the 318; and we have made our own those fathers who accepted this agreed statement of religion -- the 150 who later met in great Constantinople and themselves set their seal to the same creed.

Therefore, whilst we also stand by the decisions and all the formulas relating to the creed from the sacred synod which took place formerly at Ephesus, whose leaders of most holy memory were Celestine of Rome and Cyril of Alexandria we decree that pre-eminence belongs to the exposition of the right and spotless creed of the 318 saintly and blessed fathers who were assembled at Nicaea when Constantine of pious memory was emperor: and that those decrees also remain in force which were issued in Constantinople by the 150 holy fathers in order to destroy the heresies then rife and to confirm this same catholic and apostolic creed: the creed of the 318 fathers at Nicaea, and the same of the 150 saintly fathers assembled in Constantinople.

This wise and saving creed, the gift of divine grace, was sufficient for a perfect understanding and establishment of religion. For its teaching about the Father and the Son and the holy Spirit is complete, and it sets out the Lord's becoming human to those who faithfully accept it.

But there are those who are trying to ruin the proclamation of the truth, and through their private heresies they have spawned novel formulas: some by daring to corrupt the mystery of the Lord's economy on our behalf, and refusing to apply the word "God-bearer" to the Virgin; and others by introducing a confusion and mixture, and mindlessly imagining that there is a single nature of the flesh and the divinity, and fantastically supposing that in the confusion the divine nature of the Only-begotten is passible.

Therefore this sacred and great and universal synod, now in session, in its desire to exclude all their tricks against the truth, and teaching what has been unshakeable in the proclamation from the beginning, decrees that the creed of the 318 fathers is, above all else, to remain inviolate. And because of those who oppose the holy Spirit, it ratifies the teaching about the being of the holy Spirit handed down by the 150 saintly fathers who met some time later in the imperial city--the teaching they made known to all, not introducing anything left out by their predecessors, but clarifying their ideas about the holy Spirit by the use of scriptural testimonies against those who were trying to do away with his sovereignty.

And because of those who are attempting to corrupt the mystery of the economy and are shamelessly and foolishly asserting that he who was born of the holy virgin Mary was a mere man, it has accepted the synodical letters of the blessed Cyril, [already accepted by the Council of Ephesus] pastor of the church in Alexandria, to Nestorius and to the Orientals, as being well-suited to refuting Nestorius's mad folly and to providing an interpretation for those who in their religious zeal might desire understanding of the saving creed.

To these it has suitably added, against false believers and for the establishment of orthodox doctrines the letter of the primate of greatest and older Rome, the most blessed and most saintly Archbishop Leo, written to the sainted Archbishop Flavian to put down Eutyches's evil-mindedness, because it is in agreement with great Peter's confession and represents a support we have in common.
It is opposed to those who attempt to tear apart the mystery of the economy into a duality of sons; and it expels from the assembly of the priests those who dare to say that the divinity of the Only-begotten is passible, and it stands opposed to those who imagine a mixture or confusion between the two natures of Christ; and it expels those who have the mad idea that the servant-form he took from us is of a heavenly or some other kind of being; and it anathematises those who concoct two natures of the Lord before the union but imagine a single one after the union.

So, following the saintly fathers, we all with one voice teach the confession of one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, of a rational soul and a body; consubstantial with the Father as regards his divinity, and the same consubstantial with us as regards his humanity; like us in all respects except for sin; begotten before the ages from the Father as regards his divinity, and in the last days the same for us and for our salvation from Mary, the virgin God-bearer as regards his humanity; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only-begotten, acknowledged in two natures which undergo no confusion, no change, no division, no separation; at no point was the difference between the natures taken away through the union, but rather the property of both natures is preserved and comes together into a single person and a single subsistent being; he is not parted or divided into two persons, but is one and the same only-begotten Son, God, Word, Lord Jesus Christ, just as the prophets taught from the beginning about him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ himself instructed us, and as the creed of the fathers handed it down to us.

Since we have formulated these things with all possible accuracy and attention, the sacred and universal synod decreed that no one is permitted to produce, or even to write down or compose, any other creed or to think or teach otherwise. As for those who dare either to compose another creed or even to promulgate or teach or hand down another creed for those who wish to convert to a recognition of the truth from Hellenism or from Judaism, or from any kind of heresy at all: if they be bishops or clerics, the bishops are to be deposed from the episcopacy and the clerics from the clergy; if they be monks or layfolk, they are to be anathematised.​
The context is helpful and interesting. Thanks for the quote in your post. It corresponds to the underlined text shown above.
 

Cassia

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The council of Chalcedon produced the following formula as an antidote to various Christological heresies that were current in and around 451 AD.
Dogmatic Definition of the Council of Chalcedon, 451
The sacred and great and universal synod by God's grace and by decree of your most religious and Christ-loving emperors Valentinian Augustus and Marcian Augustus assembled in Chalcedon, metropolis of the province of Bithynia, in the shrine of the saintly and triumphant martyr Euphemia, issues the following decrees.

In establishing his disciples in the knowledge of the faith, our lord and saviour Christ said: "My peace I give you, my peace I leave to you"', so that no one should disagree with his neighbour regarding religious doctrines but that the proclamation of the truth would be uniformly presented. But the evil one never stops trying to smother the seeds of religion with his own tares and is for ever inventing some novelty or other against the truth; so the Master, exercising his usual care for the human race, roused this religious and most faithful emperor to zealous action, and summoned to himself the leaders of the priesthood from everywhere, so that through the working of the grace of Christ, the master of all of us, every injurious falsehood might be staved off from the sheep of Christ and they might be fattened on fresh growths of the truth.

This is in fact what we have done. We have driven off erroneous doctrines by our collective resolution and we have renewed the unerring creed of the fathers. We have proclaimed to all the creed of the 318; and we have made our own those fathers who accepted this agreed statement of religion -- the 150 who later met in great Constantinople and themselves set their seal to the same creed.

Therefore, whilst we also stand by the decisions and all the formulas relating to the creed from the sacred synod which took place formerly at Ephesus, whose leaders of most holy memory were Celestine of Rome and Cyril of Alexandria we decree that pre-eminence belongs to the exposition of the right and spotless creed of the 318 saintly and blessed fathers who were assembled at Nicaea when Constantine of pious memory was emperor: and that those decrees also remain in force which were issued in Constantinople by the 150 holy fathers in order to destroy the heresies then rife and to confirm this same catholic and apostolic creed: the creed of the 318 fathers at Nicaea, and the same of the 150 saintly fathers assembled in Constantinople.

This wise and saving creed, the gift of divine grace, was sufficient for a perfect understanding and establishment of religion. For its teaching about the Father and the Son and the holy Spirit is complete, and it sets out the Lord's becoming human to those who faithfully accept it.

But there are those who are trying to ruin the proclamation of the truth, and through their private heresies they have spawned novel formulas: some by daring to corrupt the mystery of the Lord's economy on our behalf, and refusing to apply the word "God-bearer" to the Virgin; and others by introducing a confusion and mixture, and mindlessly imagining that there is a single nature of the flesh and the divinity, and fantastically supposing that in the confusion the divine nature of the Only-begotten is passible.

Therefore this sacred and great and universal synod, now in session, in its desire to exclude all their tricks against the truth, and teaching what has been unshakeable in the proclamation from the beginning, decrees that the creed of the 318 fathers is, above all else, to remain inviolate. And because of those who oppose the holy Spirit, it ratifies the teaching about the being of the holy Spirit handed down by the 150 saintly fathers who met some time later in the imperial city--the teaching they made known to all, not introducing anything left out by their predecessors, but clarifying their ideas about the holy Spirit by the use of scriptural testimonies against those who were trying to do away with his sovereignty.

And because of those who are attempting to corrupt the mystery of the economy and are shamelessly and foolishly asserting that he who was born of the holy virgin Mary was a mere man, it has accepted the synodical letters of the blessed Cyril, [already accepted by the Council of Ephesus] pastor of the church in Alexandria, to Nestorius and to the Orientals, as being well-suited to refuting Nestorius's mad folly and to providing an interpretation for those who in their religious zeal might desire understanding of the saving creed.

To these it has suitably added, against false believers and for the establishment of orthodox doctrines the letter of the primate of greatest and older Rome, the most blessed and most saintly Archbishop Leo, written to the sainted Archbishop Flavian to put down Eutyches's evil-mindedness, because it is in agreement with great Peter's confession and represents a support we have in common.
It is opposed to those who attempt to tear apart the mystery of the economy into a duality of sons; and it expels from the assembly of the priests those who dare to say that the divinity of the Only-begotten is passible, and it stands opposed to those who imagine a mixture or confusion between the two natures of Christ; and it expels those who have the mad idea that the servant-form he took from us is of a heavenly or some other kind of being; and it anathematises those who concoct two natures of the Lord before the union but imagine a single one after the union.

So, following the saintly fathers, we all with one voice teach the confession of one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, of a rational soul and a body; consubstantial with the Father as regards his divinity, and the same consubstantial with us as regards his humanity; like us in all respects except for sin; begotten before the ages from the Father as regards his divinity, and in the last days the same for us and for our salvation from Mary, the virgin God-bearer as regards his humanity; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only-begotten, acknowledged in two natures which undergo no confusion, no change, no division, no separation; at no point was the difference between the natures taken away through the union, but rather the property of both natures is preserved and comes together into a single person and a single subsistent being; he is not parted or divided into two persons, but is one and the same only-begotten Son, God, Word, Lord Jesus Christ, just as the prophets taught from the beginning about him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ himself instructed us, and as the creed of the fathers handed it down to us.

Since we have formulated these things with all possible accuracy and attention, the sacred and universal synod decreed that no one is permitted to produce, or even to write down or compose, any other creed or to think or teach otherwise. As for those who dare either to compose another creed or even to promulgate or teach or hand down another creed for those who wish to convert to a recognition of the truth from Hellenism or from Judaism, or from any kind of heresy at all: if they be bishops or clerics, the bishops are to be deposed from the episcopacy and the clerics from the clergy; if they be monks or layfolk, they are to be anathematised.​
The context is helpful and interesting. Thanks for the quote in your post. It corresponds to the underlined text shown above.

I think that's the one that is accepted by most, including most Protestants.
 

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I think that's the one that is accepted by most, including most Protestants.

It is accepted by a large majority including Catholic and Orthodox Churches and many (or most) Protestant denominations.
 

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Are you familiar with the saying "lex orandi, lex credendi?" Liberally translated, theology follows worship. I'm not so sure that the question is what Christians believe, but how they live, pray and worship. I think theology comes afterwards to explain it.

As I read the NT and early Christianity, Christianity exists because after Jesus' death, Christians experienced his presence, and experienced God through that. As a result, they worshipped him and prayed to him. The Incarnation and then the Trinity followed as explanations for this.
 

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Are you familiar with the saying "lex orandi, lex credendi?" Liberally translated, theology follows worship. I'm not so sure that the question is what Christians believe, but how they live, pray and worship. I think theology comes afterwards to explain it.

As I read the NT and early Christianity, Christianity exists because after Jesus' death, Christians experienced his presence, and experienced God through that. As a result, they worshipped him and prayed to him. The Incarnation and then the Trinity followed as explanations for this.

Historically the Church's teaching on Holy Trinity was articulated before the Church's teaching on the Incarnation.
 

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The thread is not "what makes a Christian?" or "How does a person find salvation?" it is "what do Christians believe?" because the idea is to examine what Christians believe.

" What do Christians believe?" Well, Christians believe in the articles contained in the Three Ecumenical Creeds ( Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian), the authority of Scripture and the doctrines taught by whatever denomination they identify with. Confessional Lutherans have a quia subscription to the Lutheran Confessions because they are based on Scripture.

Christians believe that we are justified only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ and that we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. These beliefs carry over into daily life in our behavior toward others.
 

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Historically the Church's teaching on Holy Trinity was articulated before the Church's teaching on the Incarnation.

Chalcedon came after Nicea. But as I read the history, the motivation behind Nicea was really clarifying what we now call the Incarnation. Arianism was a theory about the relationship between Christ and God, which is the core issue of the Incarnation. The main innovation of Nicea is saying that Christ is consubstantial with the Father, i.e. that he is fully divine. That's basically about Christology. I don't think the Trinity was ever motivated by discussions of the structure of God in the abstract. It was a way to talk about Christology, that Christ is the Word made flesh, and developed out of the ways Christians talked about Christ. I believe that was a result of Christians' experience that Christ's presence was God's presence, and that Christ was worthy of prayer and worship.
 

Josiah

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" What do Christians believe?" Well, Christians believe in the articles contained in the Three Ecumenical Creeds ( Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian), the authority of Scripture and the doctrines taught by whatever denomination they identify with. Confessional Lutherans have a quia subscription to the Lutheran Confessions because they are based on Scripture.

Christians believe that we are justified only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ and that we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit. These beliefs carry over into daily life in our behavior toward others.


IMO, Christian TRUST in Christ as their one and all-sufficient Savior. This gift of faith is what makes them "Christians"

IMO, traditional and correct Christian (orthodox) teachings - how Christians have traditionally and ecumenically (catholic) articulated Christian doctrine - developed and evolved, and is revealed well by the three Ecumenical Creeds and by the 4 - 7 Ecumenical Councils. Frankly, even quite orthodox Christians disagree on matters of doctrine and practice (Indeed, put 3 Christians into a room and eventually you'll have 3 different opinions; why I not infrequently disagree with myself on stuff).

Personally, I don't confuse the two. I think it's likely very possible to have one without the other; one is a matter of the heart and of trust and is a gift of God; the other is a matter of the head and articulation and while I believe guided by the Holy Spirit is nonetheless, in the final analysis, our "stuff." Did St. Peter articulate the Trinity in the exact way as does the Athanasian Creed? Probably not..... did he have the divine gift of faith in Christ as his one and all-sufficient Savior? Absolutely. Is the Doctrine of the Trinity as developed in the Councils true? I passionately think so. Is Jesus the Savior? I trust so with all my heart.


ALL Christians are my FULL, EQUAL, UNseparated brothers and sisters in Christ - blessed by God with the gift of faith, blessed by God with justification. I don't always agree with every Christian (not even me) as I attempt to wrap my brains around the mysteries of God, attempt to articulate what my heart embraces, apply all this to daily life. In my old age, I come to appreciate that the things of God are grand and we are small. And that our "task" is not so much to cognatively KNOW as to spiritually trust and lovingly live.


That's my fallible perspective....


Pax Christi






.
 

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IMO, Christian TRUST in Christ as their one and all-sufficient Savior. This gift of faith is what makes them "Christians"

IMO, traditional and correct Christian (orthodox) teachings - how Christians have traditionally and ecumenically (catholic) articulated Christian doctrine - developed and evolved, and is revealed well by the three Ecumenical Creeds and by the 4 - 7 Ecumenical Councils. Frankly, even quite orthodox Christians disagree on matters of doctrine and practice (Indeed, put 3 Christians into a room and eventually you'll have 3 different opinions; why I not infrequently disagree with myself on stuff).

Personally, I don't confuse the two. I think it's likely very possible to have one without the other; one is a matter of the heart and of trust and is a gift of God; the other is a matter of the head and articulation and while I believe guided by the Holy Spirit is nonetheless, in the final analysis, our "stuff." Did St. Peter articulate the Trinity in the exact way as does the Athanasian Creed? Probably not..... did he have the divine gift of faith in Christ as his one and all-sufficient Savior? Absolutely. Is the Doctrine of the Trinity as developed in the Councils true? I passionately think so. Is Jesus the Savior? I trust so with all my heart.


ALL Christians are my FULL, EQUAL, UNseparated brothers and sisters in Christ - blessed by God with the gift of faith, blessed by God with justification. I don't always agree with every Christian (not even me) as I attempt to wrap my brains around the mysteries of God, attempt to articulate what my heart embraces, apply all this to daily life. In my old age, I come to appreciate that the things of God are grand and we are small. And that our "task" is not so much to cognatively KNOW as to spiritually trust and lovingly live.


That's my fallible perspective....


Pax Christi






.

Quite right. As Christians, we are part of an extended family whose Head is Christ Himself. As different branches of that family have different relationships and histories and yet are united with the broader family through basic ties of kinship and affection, so we, whether our beliefs align with Confessional Lutheranism, Traditional Anglicanism or some other Trinitarian doctrine, are a part of the One, Holy, Christian and Apostolic Church. The differences shouldn't be ignored, but neither should they be inflated. This is my own personal opinion which you won't find on the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod's website.

We are all part of the Family of God. If I might indulge my Scottish heritage for a moment, I'll liken us to a great, divine Clan. Many families, many of them squabbling amongst each other, comprise this Clan. They come from all over the world, all ethnicities, all languages are accepted and embraced by this Clan. There is a unity under the authority of a High King, if you like. The ultimate loyalty goes to this Chief. One's interests are subservient to the family's. The family's interests are subservient to the Clan's and the High King determines the interests and looks out for the welfare of this Clan. This monarch's authority is Absolute. Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and He sends out His emissaries ( our clergy) to shepherd His people and to explain to them the Laws He's established and the Gospel that nourishes us. He gives us His Body and Blood under the Bread and the Wine of the Sacrament of Holy Communion to strengthen our Faith and to affirm our bonds with each other. Baptism is how God brings us into His Clan and our declaration of fealty, if you like, is our Confession of faith. We violate the laws and confess that to our High King, in full trust of His merciful forgiveness. When that forgiveness is granted, we go forth in faith, in absolute joy to find and share our faith with others, in the hope that God will use us to further and grow His Clan. That is my own, very fallible view on it.
 

Imalive

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What do christians believe?
We had a tv program here where Dutch famous persons could find God. So one guy, a boxer, went on a search for God with em. He asked groups of christians questions, later he got saved, but he was so funny and he was just being serious. He said: I asked this group of christians, that group of christians. This one says this. This one says that. Why can't they just come up with one story? That would be so much handier.
 

Albion

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What do christians believe?
We had a tv program here where Dutch famous persons could find God. So one guy, a boxer, went on a search for God with em. He asked groups of christians questions, later he got saved, but he was so funny and he was just being serious. He said: I asked this group of christians, that group of christians. This one says this. This one says that. Why can't they just come up with one story? That would be so much handier.

Of course...but, you know, it's hard to think of any intellectual movement in which there is complete unity among the adherents. Certainly, there is no other religion that can claim such a thing for itself.

So, if the question here comes down to "What is the common denominator that all who call themselves Christian must accept?" I'd say it is that they accept Jesus as God and as Savior. Where the line would be drawn (IMO) would be if they acclaim Jesus as a great teacher or emissary of God but not God himself. Doing that would, in effect, be to deny a belief in Christ because of having made him into someone else.

It's hard to exclude someone on the basis of their view of the afterlife, the sacraments, the ministry, and all of that, so long as they truly believe in Christ Jesus. We could say that they are wrong about some doctrinal matters, say that they are not orthodox, or something in that vein; but it probably is going too far to say that they are not Christian.
 

Stravinsk

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Of course...but, you know, it's hard to think of any intellectual movement in which there is complete unity among the adherents. Certainly, there is no other religion that can claim such a thing for itself.

So, if the question here comes down to "What is the common denominator that all who call themselves Christian must accept?" I'd say it is that they accept Jesus as God and as Savior. Where the line would be drawn (IMO) would be if they acclaim Jesus as a great teacher or emissary of God but not God himself. Doing that would, in effect, be to deny a belief in Christ because of having made him into someone else.

It's hard to exclude someone on the basis of their view of the afterlife, the sacraments, the ministry, and all of that, so long as they truly believe in Christ Jesus. We could say that they are wrong about some doctrinal matters, say that they are not orthodox, or something in that vein; but it probably is going too far to say that they are not Christian.

On that basis, (what I have underlined above) - then I'm a Christian.

Many Christians, however, pay lip service to this but do not really believe it. They refer to the God of the "old testament" as if it's some other "god" - but to be included they'll say "Jesus is Lord". Unfortunately, some of this is built into the Christian traditions. For example, if Jesus and the Father are ONE - then they share the same opinions on things like the Sabbath, eating Pork products, homosexuality etc. But to many believers they have different views. So then, they aren't "one" - and they can't be the same god - so the lip service comes in. It's highly dishonest and I have come to recognize that it's just something that is taken for granted in many church traditions as something one must accept and leave their spiritual and intellectual honesty at the door in order to be included but also not too "jewish".

I claim Deism mostly because I think it fits me as opposed to the various "molds" Christians like to define themselves (and others) into. Among those are rejection of certain gospels (Luke and Mark) and Saul/Paul's letters as being inspired (they contain truths mixed with errors). The book we know as the Bible was put together by the Roman Catholic Church. There is no law nor teaching of Yeshua that says I must accept it as Authoritive - EXCEPT Yeshua's acknowledgement of the Hebrew Cannon at the time and those Gospels written by disciples rather than non-disciples.

Claiming Christ as Savior also doesn't mean I need to know whether I am presently "saved". As far as I'm concerned - that's a future event - and it's up to God. Yeshua didn't give this assurance - the opposite in fact - and I've come up against hypocritical people (even here) who would use it as some sort of holy measuring stick. To this I suggest a reading of Matthew chapter 7 - not everyone who acknowledges Jesus will be saved. PERIOD. Don't matter what Saul/Paul says - Christ's words trump his.
 
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