Alternative Energy: Do you?

[Stravinsk]

This is directed to folks in developed nations - I'm assuming most people who have internet access are going to be from a developed nation - and for the purpose of the thread Alternative energies are ways of harvesting energy that you do yourself, and is not State/community supplied for a $ amount.

Some possible alternatives:

- Solar panels
- Solar cookers
- Wind turbines
- BioDiesel
- BioGas (Green gas production such as methane)
- Other BioFuel (such as briquettes made from paper, grass clippings etc)
- Overunity devices (devices claiming to produce more energy output than input)
- Magnet motors and similar devices

Currently, I'm not doing any I had plans to do a few different things (a hydrogen producing device for example) but for various reasons I got stuck on something or it was placed on the back-list of to-do items. Currently I'm looking into making either BioGas or green briquettes or both as an experiment and may order a hobby kit if I can find one. Every year I have a lot of green waste that gets mowed or plucked that is collected by the City - and I'm starting to wonder if they are just turning around and turning it into some sort of fuel to sell back to the community - and if so...why give it away?

 

[tango]

I periodically think about running a 12v DC main throughout my house. It always strikes me that if things like solar panels produce 12v DC and the standard thing we do is run it through an inverter to make 120v or 240v AC (losing a good chunk of it through inefficiency) to feed the house breaker box, only for so many things to immediately convert it back into 12v DC (losing a chunk more of it), then most of what we're doing is wasting energy. It's a good way to break warranties but does seem like a good way to make everything work better, to run the DC straight into the devices that actually work on DC.

 

[Imalive]

No, a guy wanted to sell me green energy, but he was annoying and pushy and it costed more and was a fuzz. He didn't take a friendly no for an answer. Then I emailed him: DO NOT BOTHER ME ANYMORE!! NOO I WANT NO GREEN ENERGY I STICK W THE NUON. LOL I'm horrible.

 

[tango]

Years ago I looked into having solar panels fitted to my house, although at the time the numbers were such that it made no sense at all. Based on buying them outright (i.e. not paying interest on a loan), assuming they yielded figures in line with the "up to" claims, and assuming they needed no servicing or repairs, the figures were such that I might tentatively hope to have recovered the cost of installing them by the time it was time to pay someone to decommission them.

That said, since I'm in the process of a huge home renovation, now might be a good time to look at alternative energy sources again. I'm thinking of having a geothermal pump put in the basement, depending on the numbers involved.

 

[Josiah]

We don't have solar panels on our house, but a majority of the electricity we buy is "green" offering no carbon footprint (the utility has been going "green" for some time). We considered solar electricity a few months ago, but the only way it even began to "pencil out" was because of heavy tax credits (tax payers subsidizing us!) - I find that wrong and did not consider that in the "math." And since the utility here is move fast away from carbon, the "footprint' issue becomes less and less anyway.

We purchased "gas" autos, but we purposely chose models that get usually good mileage and the gas sold here is about 10% biofuel.

 

[Lamb]

A lot of areas in the US have codes and ordinances that either prevent or limit a lot of those options! I mean, if you live in suburbia you can't put in a giant turbine and expect neighbors to be happy

 

[Stravinsk]

A lot of areas in the US have codes and ordinances that either prevent or limit a lot of those options! I mean, if you live in suburbia you can't put in a giant turbine and expect neighbors to be happy

Turbines - there are smaller versions that make little to no noise.

As for the other options, provided they don't produce a toxic/nasty smell or a danger, I don't see the need for any ordinances - other than the obvious reasons that help keep monopolies in business.

Today I took a bunch of cardboard that I'd normally just throw into the recycle bin and instead am soaking it in water. We'll see how easy it is to break down after 3 or 4 days or so. Going to make some briquettes. In the next few weeks am going to experiment with some simple/small scale methane producers as well.

 

[Stravinsk]

I periodically think about running a 12v DC main throughout my house. It always strikes me that if things like solar panels produce 12v DC and the standard thing we do is run it through an inverter to make 120v or 240v AC (losing a good chunk of it through inefficiency) to feed the house breaker box, only for so many things to immediately convert it back into 12v DC (losing a chunk more of it), then most of what we're doing is wasting energy. It's a good way to break warranties but does seem like a good way to make everything work better, to run the DC straight into the devices that actually work on DC.

It's been a while since I've done my electronics/electricity course but I don't remember there being a large net power loss for the transition to AC from DC or vice versa.

Alternating current or AC, btw, was invented by Nicola Tesla, which allowed for transmission of electric current across large distances without loss of power.

 

[tango]

It's been a while since I've done my electronics/electricity course but I don't remember there being a large net power loss for the transition to AC from DC or vice versa.

Alternating current or AC, btw, was invented by Nicola Tesla, which allowed for transmission of electric current across large distances without loss of power.

It's been a while since I looked into it too, but I recall an issue with inverters having a fairly low efficiency while transformers had a reasonable efficiency.

For domestic purposes I don't care about transmitting electric current over large distances, as long as it can get from my roof to my basement it's fine...

 

[NewCreation435]

A lot of areas in the US have codes and ordinances that either prevent or limit a lot of those options! I mean, if you live in suburbia you can't put in a giant turbine and expect neighbors to be happy

It's too bad nobody has yet created mobile turbines that we could drop into hurricanes or storms and capture some of that energy for good reasons

 

[tango]

A lot of areas in the US have codes and ordinances that either prevent or limit a lot of those options! I mean, if you live in suburbia you can't put in a giant turbine and expect neighbors to be happy

I wouldn't want a neighbor to put a honking great tower in his back yard with a 200-foot turbine, but you can get much smaller things that essentially bolt onto the side of the chimney or similar.

We have a big flat roof so maybe as part of the renovation process I can cover it in solar panels. Wonder what that would cost...

 

[Josiah]

There are now solar panels that are just roof tiles; you can't tell them from regular tiles, and they serve equally as roofing material and solar collectors. I'm waiting for the cost of those to come way down and when my tile roof needs replacement (the house is about 20 years old), I can have those installed instead of the UGLY panels that now are typical.

 

[tango]

There are now solar panels that are just roof tiles; you can't tell them from regular tiles, and they serve equally as roofing material and solar collectors. I'm waiting for the cost of those to come way down and when my tile roof needs replacement (the house is about 20 years old), I can have those installed instead of the UGLY panels that now are typical.

Interesting... my flat roof still keeps the water out but the slate sides are very old and have lots of gaps. I wonder if they would work there. One side of the house gets the sun all afternoon...

 

[Lamb]

I wouldn't want a neighbor to put a honking great tower in his back yard with a 200-foot turbine, but you can get much smaller things that essentially bolt onto the side of the chimney or similar.

We have a big flat roof so maybe as part of the renovation process I can cover it in solar panels. Wonder what that would cost...

Still there are codes that forbid a lot of things. You need permits to even put up solar panels which is insane!

 

[Lamb]

There are now solar panels that are just roof tiles; you can't tell them from regular tiles, and they serve equally as roofing material and solar collectors. I'm waiting for the cost of those to come way down and when my tile roof needs replacement (the house is about 20 years old), I can have those installed instead of the UGLY panels that now are typical.

That would be awesome!! I would love to have those but they're probably the cost of the house itself!

 

[tango]

Still there are codes that forbid a lot of things. You need permits to even put up solar panels which is insane!

A lot depends on just where you live. The area I know best in PA seems pretty laid back - an electrician friend said that the code inspectors will check everything up to the first switch inside your property and beyond that they pretty much don't care, and from what I gather if you're renovating a home there's little to no code compliance required as long as you're not doing anything structural.

I guess in urban areas with houses really close to each other, if not attached to each other, if you do something silly it affects other people. In an area where most houses are detached with significant gaps between them it's easy to see why they might take the line that if I do something stupid and my house falls down it's my problem and nobody else's.

 

[Stravinsk]

I started my BioGas experimental/small scale system today. Still need to source a few parts but I'm hopeful to get it up and running in a few days time. When everything is set up, it's supposed to be 2 weeks to a month before it starts to produce methane.

 

[Josiah]

While I don't question the sincerity of any, I DO see some ironies....

Al Gore goes everywhere preaching "carbon footprint" - all in a huge private jet, likely leaving a bigger carbon footprint by the jet in one day than most do in a year....

This past week, I had meetings on the campus of a well-known and very liberal university, where preached EVERYWHERE (in the most passionate of terms) was tree hugging, enviornmentalism, "the sky is falling" and how we're all going to cook to death next year in global warming (honestly, the message was EVERYWHERE!). Yet, there was concrete everywhere (the making of such is a HUGE creator of CO2), the A/C was on everywhere to near freezing levels (the buildings were absurdly cold), I ordered a sandwich which came in a plastic clam box and a drink that was in a plastic cup with a plastic straw... I could go on and on. What the school DID and what it PREACHED were a complete contradiction.

I have a relative, a bit older than me. She lives in the Boston area and is a self-described tree hugger and CONSTANTLY talking about global warming and stuff. But she and her husband live in a least a 3000 sq. foot house that's like 80 in the winter and 60 in the summer, she drives a huge SUV (even though it's just to two of them, no kids) and he a Corvette. And they fly everywhere on fuel gulping jets.

I just sense this: At times, these "the sky is falling" tree huggers SEEM to think it's a message for everyone else. It's good to be passionate about things... but the place to begin is with who you see in the mirror?

Maybe?


.

 

[Stravinsk]

While I don't question the sincerity of any, I DO see some ironies....

Al Gore goes everywhere preaching "carbon footprint" - all in a huge private jet, likely leaving a bigger carbon footprint by the jet in one day than most do in a year....

This past week, I had meetings on the campus of a well-known and very liberal university, where preached EVERYWHERE (in the most passionate of terms) was tree hugging, enviornmentalism, "the sky is falling" and how we're all going to cook to death next year in global warming (honestly, the message was EVERYWHERE!). Yet, there was concrete everywhere (the making of such is a HUGE creator of CO2), the A/C was on everywhere to near freezing levels (the buildings were absurdly cold), I ordered a sandwich which came in a plastic clam box and a drink that was in a plastic cup with a plastic straw... I could go on and on. What the school DID and what it PREACHED were a complete contradiction.

I have a relative, a bit older than me. She lives in the Boston area and is a self-described tree hugger and CONSTANTLY talking about global warming and stuff. But she and her husband live in a least a 3000 sq. foot house that's like 80 in the winter and 60 in the summer, she drives a huge SUV (even though it's just to two of them, no kids) and he a Corvette. And they fly everywhere on fuel gulping jets.

I just sense this: At times, these "the sky is falling" tree huggers SEEM to think it's a message for everyone else. It's good to be passionate about things... but the place to begin is with who you see in the mirror?

Maybe?


.

Heh. There is a mind control technique called "endless repetition" and it is one of the methods the media uses to push the "global warming" agenda. I have friends who are so convinced of it they think anyone who doesn't believe in it is some kind of quack. And yet, most of them can't give real hard facts. It's just that the message has been marketed to them endlessly through various programming. First of all, the world isn't a globe - but of course one can't start there - because to most people proclaiming the earth is flat is like admitting you are a poached egg - until you start to give them some facts. Anywhoo.

One of the reasons biogas has appealed to me is that it's a little harder to monopolize. That is, without massive unfair government zoning restrictions based on lies. My biogas experiment is presently producing CO2 and collecting it in an inner tube. From what I understand it's supposed to take up to 2 weeks or more to start producing mostly methane. I used slightly different materials than what the instructions called for, so in 2-3 weeks if methane isn't being produced I'll have to follow the instructions more carefully - but I'm convinced of the concept and have seen a lot of people do it online. Nearly everyone has food scraps/waste and some kind of garden grass/weeds than can help reduce...

...not their "carbon footprint" (as if this was even necessary...it isn't)

...but their reliance on corporate energy.

And to me that is more important. Stick it to the monopolies and reduce one of the excuses for war (resource wars).

 

[tango]

While I don't question the sincerity of any, I DO see some ironies....

Al Gore goes everywhere preaching "carbon footprint" - all in a huge private jet, likely leaving a bigger carbon footprint by the jet in one day than most do in a year....

This past week, I had meetings on the campus of a well-known and very liberal university, where preached EVERYWHERE (in the most passionate of terms) was tree hugging, enviornmentalism, "the sky is falling" and how we're all going to cook to death next year in global warming (honestly, the message was EVERYWHERE!). Yet, there was concrete everywhere (the making of such is a HUGE creator of CO2), the A/C was on everywhere to near freezing levels (the buildings were absurdly cold), I ordered a sandwich which came in a plastic clam box and a drink that was in a plastic cup with a plastic straw... I could go on and on. What the school DID and what it PREACHED were a complete contradiction.

I have a relative, a bit older than me. She lives in the Boston area and is a self-described tree hugger and CONSTANTLY talking about global warming and stuff. But she and her husband live in a least a 3000 sq. foot house that's like 80 in the winter and 60 in the summer, she drives a huge SUV (even though it's just to two of them, no kids) and he a Corvette. And they fly everywhere on fuel gulping jets.

I just sense this: At times, these "the sky is falling" tree huggers SEEM to think it's a message for everyone else. It's good to be passionate about things... but the place to begin is with who you see in the mirror?

Maybe?

.

I remember reading an article some time back (not sure if I can find it again, if I do I'll link it) that basically said if you're not willing to live like the Amish you have no business preaching the alarmist climate change message.

The short version is pretty simple - if you truly believe that carbon emissions will cause an apocalypse that will primarily and initially affect the people least able to cope (typically those in coastal areas in developing nations) then by simply driving a car to work you are saying that your convenience is more important than the lives of millions of people. When you turn on your computer to post your messages you needlessly emit carbon, so you are basically sacrificing the lives of millions of (mostly) brown people for the sake of your vanity.

I honestly think we do have to question the sincerity of those who preach a message while living in a manner that shows they don't believe a word of it. Like, say, someone who preaches a message that climate change will cause a devastating rise in the sea level but lives in a beachfront property. Or someone who insists that reducing carbon emissions is crucial to our long term survival but flies in a private jet rather than rubbing shoulders with the plebs (you know, people like you and I).

Even recycling seems to be more of a business proposition than an environmental proposition, especially if you look at the levels of waste associated with using drinking quality water to wash out glass and plastic containers, and the fuel used to drive them to recycling centers.