Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man in the Shroud is Jesus Christ

[tango]

How is trying to use the bible against Jesus make you a believer in him?

Who is using the Bible against Jesus? You're the one trying to draw theology from Youtube and acting as if your ex-wife having a son proves that some scraps of cloth once held the body of Jesus.

 

[brian100]

This is about the Shroud=open your eyes and see the hearts. ♥

 

[brian100]

Who is using the Bible against Jesus? You're the one trying to draw theology from Youtube and acting as if your ex-wife having a son proves that some scraps of cloth once held the body of Jesus.

You are using the bible agianst one of his miracles and this makes you his enemy. Those scraps as you call em = dying for us believers! Sacred scraps.

 

[brian100]

Um no I proved Jesus connected all this to her and I. . its my works that got her and I to heaven. I'm prepared to stand in front of Islam if I have to.

Nobody but God can tell me all this.

lukepostcard-shroud-vital-records-01

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What have you done for God?

 

[tango]

You are using the bible agianst one of his miracles and this makes you his enemy. Those scraps as you call em = dying for us believers! Sacred scraps.

You saying so doesn't make it so.

I'm also not using the Bible against it. I'm using Scripture to address some of your outlandish claims. If it was so important you'd have thought Jesus would have mentioned it. Pointing out that he didn't mention it, not even once, not even in passing, suggests it wasn't important.

What matters is that Jesus died and rose again. It clearly doesn't matter whether or not we have the particular scraps of cloth that once wrapped him, as they aren't needed any more. If we needed them Jesus could have told the disciples to preserve them. If we needed to know about them Jesus could have told the disciples that they were important. But apparently he forgot. I wonder why that might be....

 

[brian100]

I don't have to say it. Jesus Shroud says it. The Postcard says it. The Youtube upload date says it.

I didn't make up the Shroud or the postcard. Now show me what you have done?

 

[tango]

Um no I proved Jesus connected all this to her and I. . its my works that got her and I to heaven. I'm prepared to stand in front of Islam if I have to.

You proved nothing of the sort. You showed that a few things happened on the same date. My friend was born on the exact date that Nixon closed the gold window at the Federal Reserve. Perhaps that proves he is the harbinger of economic destruction, maybe even that he's one of the two witnesses described in the Revelation who will bring plagues to the earth. Hey, it makes as much sense as the "proof" you've offered.

Nobody but God can tell me all this.

I think if God had anything to do with it at all you'd be able to make at least a marginally convincing case. You know that bit in Scripture where it says "test all things, hold fast what is true"? It doesn't seem like your "proof" has passed much testing from anybody here. The fact you're not well known on TV presenting your "proof" suggests that others have also tested it and found it to be lacking.

 

[brian100]

Yeah some guy named Luke miraculously guessed which day I uploaded the Shroud to youtube. Yeah right. 17 years ago. And then made it my secret sons b-day?

I have Heaven on my side.

 

[Bluezone777]

We aren't saying those things don't exist as we are claiming the significance you claim them to have is what is made up. Scripture doesn't support your claims and an affirmative claim needs to be backed up with scripture or otherwise it should and will be roundly rejected by anyone standing on scripture alone.

Also you don't prove anything until someone else believes you. You believing it doesn't mean you proved it. When you convince anyone on this forum that what you say is true is when you proved it. Until then, you have proved nothing.

 

[brian100]

Alright then just wait for my God to answer you. You can not claim nobody has told you this.

 

[tango]

I don't have to say it. Jesus Shroud says it. The Postcard says it. The Youtube upload date says it.

I didn't make up the Shroud or the postcard. Now show me what you have done?

Gotcha. A postcard someone sent you fills in the gaps that Jesus forgot to mention. Someone posted a video on Youtube. If only Jesus had thought to mention it we'd have all we need. But since Jesus apparently forgot to mention his burial cloths it's just as well someone uploaded a video two millennia later to fill us in on what we missed out on.

What have I done? I've looked to the words Jesus actually said. You know, the bits in red letters in Scripture. Nowhere does he even mention the cloths that once wrapped his body (feel free to quote chapter and verse if I'm wrong on that.... I won't hold my breath). Yet you ignore Jesus' total silence on this topic because someone posted a video to Youtube and someone else sent you a postcard.

Unless you really want to think of Jesus as some kind of bimbling halfwit who ascended into heaven only to slap his forehead and shout "Oh no! I forgot to tell them to save those bits of cloth! Mankind is doomed for millennia until someone invents a handy platform where people can share videos and someone sends Brian a postcard!" you're going to have to do better than this.

 

[brian100]

You sound crazy trying to disprove Shroud and my postcard facts. 7/14.

 

[tango]

Yeah some guy named Luke miraculously guessed which day I uploaded the Shroud to youtube. Yeah right. 17 years ago. And then made it my secret sons b-day?

I have Heaven on my side.

Here's a tip for you. Go get yourself a dictionary and look up the word "coincidence". You could follow up with a class in probability theory.

Unrelated things don't become related just because they happened on the same day. But, you know, one of my drinking buddies has the same birthday as my mother so maybe God sent him to protect me. But I suspect the most I can hope for is that he'll buy me a beer.

 

[brian100]

3 guesses is not a coincidence.

I count 3

lukepostcard-shroud-vital-records-01

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[tango]

You sound crazy trying to disprove Shroud and my postcard facts. 7/14.

I'm not disproving anything. I'm pointing out that your proof is so full of holes it would make a Swiss cheese jealous.

 

[brian100]

Keep trying to desprove Jesus Shroud and see how long it takes for him to pass judgement on u.

 

[Bluezone777]

If he was to pass judgment on anyone, it would be the one who doesn't stand on the scriptures alone which is you. In fact, when have you ever stood on the scriptures alone and not just used them as props for one of your movie clips or "proofs" on this forum?

We don't have to disprove anything, it is on you who has the task of proving it by providing evidence that collaborates with your testimony and the affirmative claims you have made. So far, we have seen none hence why we are still unconvinced.

 

[tango]

Keep trying to desprove Jesus Shroud and see how long it takes for him to pass judgement on u.

I'm not disproving anything. I'm looking at your "proof" and the yawning chasm between what you call proof and what anyone else might call proof.

Good job trying to use a very transparent version of Pascal's Wager into the discussion. Hey, if you can't prove something you might as well offer the "but what if I'm right, and then you'll go to hell and THEN you'll be sorry" line.

But hey, here's a flip side to it. Forget about what I say, how about you look at Scripture (you know, the book that says Holy Bible on the front, not what some guy pretending to be Jesus says in a Youtube video) and what Jesus said. Jesus told us all sorts of things about the way we should live our lives. He died for us and rose again, redeeming us and giving us the chance to go to heaven. Not once did he mention the scraps of cloth that would one day be wrapped around his body. After his resurrection he still didn't mention them. You'd almost be forgiven for thinking they didn't matter any more, that they had served their purpose and were no longer needed.

Instead you endlessly insist that the topic on which Jesus was totally silent is of eternal significance. Do you know something Jesus didn't know? Are you filling in the gaps, providing information Jesus forgot to mention 2000 years ago? Or maybe, just maybe, you're the one who is missing the point so spectacularly.

 

[brian100]

Okay so lets leave it here w/ me as a believer in it. And then you guys can stay on the unbeliever side and wait for Mary's heel in Genesis 3:15 Douay Rhiems.

Holes in the Shroud? The Shroud is amazing evidence.

My 7/14 proof is rock solid.

 

[Bluezone777]

Well I guess it's good enough for you but it doesn't seem to be so rock solid for anyone else for good reaosn which has been clearly spelled out by multiple people. The only thing the shroud if it really belongs to Him only proves that He had lived and died not that He rose again which is crucial to the Christian faith. If He had not risen from death, everything He preached and is recorded in scriptures in regards to what He said is worth nothing if He had not rose again.