What must I do to be saved?

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
A man asked saints Paul and Silas "Men, what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) and the saints replied "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.". The story is instructive, but after they gave him that short answer "they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house." And that is also instructive.

What do you believe one must do to be saved?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,648
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It is by grace through faith that any of us are saved. Belief can only come because faith was first given to us from God as a gift :)

So even though we believe and we are saved, salvation (by grace through faith and this faith grasps onto the Good News that our sins are forgiven) is 100% God's work.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,282
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Romans is very clear what we must do. It says that if you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess with your mouth you willbe saved
 

king of the unknown

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
76
Age
35
Location
Inside my house
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I always reminds me of other religions such as Muslims who believe if you do the five pillars you will be save but that wasn't enough so they invented a sixth pillar and even then the pillar is actually two separate idea of the inward (greater jihad) and outward (lesser jihad). Part of the reason for these ideas was that they expected so sort of reward for doing so and got very little but it also bring up the idea of wanting to feel in control of our destiny. The idea that faith saves us rather then a set of yes and no answer is hard to swallow. It is like going into the DMV and being told just showing up was good enough to get your drivers license instead of filling out paperwork.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I always reminds me of other religions such as Muslims who believe if you do the five pillars you will be save but that wasn't enough so they invented a sixth pillar and even then the pillar is actually two separate idea of the inward (greater jihad) and outward (lesser jihad). Part of the reason for these ideas was that they expected so sort of reward for doing so and got very little but it also bring up the idea of wanting to feel in control of our destiny. The idea that faith saves us rather then a set of yes and no answer is hard to swallow. It is like going into the DMV and being told just showing up was good enough to get your drivers license instead of filling out paperwork.

Normally in addition to the paperwork one must also pass a driving test.
 

Hammster

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
1,459
Age
56
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
A man asked saints Paul and Silas "Men, what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) and the saints replied "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.". The story is instructive, but after they gave him that short answer "they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house." And that is also instructive.

What do you believe one must do to be saved?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
A man asked saints Paul and Silas "Men, what must I do to be saved?" (Acts 16:30) and the saints replied "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.".

I agree with Scripture, with Paul and with Silas.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
The RCC presents a MESS - a fuzzy, muddy, entangled, confusing MESS on what should be the clearest proclamation for Christians (as Paul and Silas did).

The reason for the MESS, this confused, twisted, entangled, knotty MESS the RCC presents is that it AT BEST confuses Law and Gospel, justification and sanctification (narrow sense, both) - or often, just forgets the Gospel entirely and justification wholly. It ends up with a MESS that seems far far closer to Judaism and Islam and some forms of Hinduism where God makes salvation possible, God empowers us, but we save ourselves in a slow, processive, synergistic, insecure process. Or what all my Catholic teachers taught me: "God HELPS those who help themselves." "God opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it."


I hope this helps:



There are TWO DIFFERENT issue here: Justification and Sanctification (narrow sense, both).

Let me use this analogy:

FIRST: On January 23, 1988, I was born. I was GIVEN life - the miracle, the wonderful, mysterious GIFT of life (we might agree that actually happened about 9 months earlier, but let's proceed). At that point, I became alive. I became a human being - with all that means, biologically and spiritually, all that means in terms of God and me. GIFT. G.I.F.T. This purely, solely, only, exclusively by mercy since prior to that, I did NOTHING. I thought nothing. I willed nothing. I sought nothing. I desired nothing. NO good works. GIFT. G.I.F.T. Mercy. M.E.R.C.Y. On January 23, 1988 - I was removed from my mother (C-Section) - unbreathing, unconscience - I had NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. Gift. Mercy. No merits. No works. No will. Nothing in or from me. GIFT. MERCY. Someone ELSE is to be credited. Entirely. Wholly. Completely. MONERGISTIC. Life is mine - by grace, by mercy, from God, as a GIFT. I am a human being, with all that means - by grace, by mercy, from God, as a GIFT.

In the same way, God saved me (what Protestants mean here is justification - narrow sense). God GAVE me spiritual life, God caused me to be born AGAIN, now not only with physical life but with spiritual life, now I am not only the child of my parents but a child of God. This CHANGES my relationship to God, as a result solely, only, exclusively because of God's mercy, grace, favor; solely, only, exclusively because of what CHRIST has done as THE Savior; solely, only, exclusively because God GAVE me the GIFT of faith in Christ as my Savior: Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. You know, the worst heresy ever, what Luther was excommunicated for, the view the RCC decided to split Christianity over. We believe this is MONERGISTIC, because CHRIST is the Savior - not me, not you, not the Pope, not Mary, not the RC Denomination. I'm NOT the Savior - in whole or in part - because the job is taken and He didn't blow it. What makes me a CHRISTIAN is that God's merciful, gracious, undeserved, unmerited, free GIFT of faith means I'm looking to CHRIST as THE Savior, not in the mirror as all my Catholic teachers taught me to do, many Catholic sermons taught me to do, as Catholics keep telling us we must do.

This, of course, we are told CONSTANTLY by Catholics is heresy, the antithesis of what the Bible says, condemned by every Christian who lived before 1517. As one of my Catholic teachers told me, "the greatest heresy ever." Luther was excommunicated for this. The RC Denomination split itself so as to anathmatize this. It is what Catholics constantly repudiate, even call "satanic" and "of the devil."



SECOND: Almost immediately after being born (well, maybe some months later, lol), my parents, my society and yes God called me to GROW. To mature. To become more loving, more caring, more righteous, more ethical. Not more human, but more mature. THIS completely OTHER subject is a process (unlike my conception). THIS entirely other subject is synergistic (unlike conception). GROWING to be more God like. GROWING in the directions that my parents, my society, my God call me: "Thou shalt be HOLY just as the Lord God is holy." "Thou shalt be PERFECT just as your Father in Heaven is perfect." "LOVE in exactly the same way as Christ loved us on the Cross." High callings! I'm not "there" yet. I'm still GROWING (well, I'd LIKE to say always growing..... sometimes I'm not, sometimes I even retreat). And I do so in large part because of God's EMPOWERING, not due to some innate homo sapian ability. Yes..... in a few cases, the Bible also calls this "grace" but the CONTEXT tells us this is entirely different, here it means "strength" or "empowering" in this context. It is still ours by mercy (we don't DESIRE anything from Him), but here it means strength. This growing up, this discipleship, this CHRISTIAN-walk is something a CHRISTIAN does, not something that makes one a Christian; it is the RESULT of justification not the cause. My being nice to my neighbor is not what causes me to have physical life, having physical life enables me to be nice to my neighbor. What I do as a growing, maturing, developing man is not what makes me a homo sapien nor worthy of being given life.

It is NOT a case of SELF somehow taping into the "gas" God gives in order to slowly "save" self in a SYNERGISTIC process - almost never complete in one lifetime and so (as in Hinduism) more time is supplied to finish the job, salvation being a JOINT EFFORT: Jesus doing what He can (perhaps) but it's insuffient, inadequate, He fails as a Savior - so we come to the rescue to help save Him from being a failure by supplying what He could not: Jesus does what He could (but it's inadequate, a failure) so WE help Him but adding the really important part, the part that actually results in our salvation (albeit we won't get the job done before we die - thus the RCC now gives us Purgatory). In the view of Protestants, AT THE VERY LEAST, modern Catholicism is confusing DIFFERENT ISSUES: man and God, law and gospel, sancatification and justification - leading to the Christless, Crossless, Bloodless, merciless religion we hear as constant din from them; nearly indistingishable from Judaism and Islam, all boasting of SELF. Yes, I know, a tiny few Catholics like to point out, we get HELP. HELP is the closest Catholics ever get to any "gospel." Of course, this is A point Jews and Muslims ALWAYS point out, always stress - but only a few Catholics do, and then usually only if pressured into it. But God HELPING us gain life is not the same as God GIVING us life. What I see is actually not a blending or confusing or entangling different issues, but the actual ABANDONMENT - entirely - of grace, mercy, Christ, the Cross, the Blood, in spite of such talk. The Gospel has simply been .... abandoned. What is left is just the growing part, the walk part, the maturing part. Christ AS SAVIOR has been lost (the key point of CHRISTianity!), all that is left is the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu point of getting closer to heaven each day by what WE do - with the HELP of God.


You CANNOT agree with me and remain a Catholic because Catholicism excommunicated Luther over this, declares Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide to be the worse heresy over. It likes Islam, the Pope kissed the Koran (which agrees with Catholicism on this point of we save ourselves - with divine help) but Protestants on this point are the worse heretics ever, Catholicism insists, Catholics proclaim.


As I have OFTEN stated, for years now, it is MY OPINION that IN SPITE OF the entangled mess the RCC now teaches, the Gospel has not been killed. Because of the verbatim reading of Scripture..... because of the gospel proclaimed in the liturgy and often in hymns (Often Protestant hymns!), because the ancient festivals continue..... Because God's Word does not return to Him void IN SPITE OF the mess Catholicism presents, Catholics STILL have some concept (however buried) of Christ as SAVIOR. IF..... oh what a big and difficult word that is...... IF you can help the Catholic untangle the MESS they've been taught, you can at times find they are actually Christians after all. I believe this to be the case; I believe Catholics generally ARE heaven-bound in spite of their denomination. Sad. Because the one issue a church should be MOST clear on, the MOST distinctively CHRISTian - that's the very doctrine Catholicism is weakest on, so blurry, so confused, so entangled, so NON-distinctively Christian.



I hope this helps.
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah, why would that help... :/
 
Last edited:

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Personally, I always enjoy the beginning of a good story:
"Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them..." (Acts 2: 37-40a).
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Romans is very clear what we must do. It says that if you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess with your mouth you willbe saved

I wonder if a person who cannot speak is excluded by a rule that says "confess with the mouth"?
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It is by grace through faith that any of us are saved. Belief can only come because faith was first given to us from God as a gift :)

So even though we believe and we are saved, salvation (by grace through faith and this faith grasps onto the Good News that our sins are forgiven) is 100% God's work.

Everything that everybody has is given to them by God, even the wicked receive life and breath and all things from God; saint Paul explained that when he was in Athens, he said:
Acts 17:24-25 NJB 'Since the God who made the world and everything in it is himself Lord of heaven and earth, he does not make his home in shrines made by human hands. (25) Nor is he in need of anything, that he should be served by human hands; on the contrary, it is he who gives everything -- including life and breath -- to everyone.​
So faith is given as much and from the same source as breath and life, yet not all receive faith ... what sort of faith is it that you think is given?
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I agree with Scripture, with Paul and with Silas.

I will hazard the opinion that all in this thread believe saints Paul and Silas.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Personally, I always enjoy the beginning of a good story:
"Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them..." (Acts 2: 37-40a).

Excellent passage from saint Peter's Pentecostal sermon. I completely endorse it :)
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I will hazard the opinion that all in this thread believe saints Paul and Silas.

Actually, Catholics typically get angry, furious when anyone agrees with St. Paul and St. Silas in this verse, or when they quote Jesus in John 3:16..... IMMEDIATELY screaming that we do good works to be saved, overshadowing John 3:16 with a very twisted, removed from context quote from James - all the stress that Jesus is not the Savior, He's the Helper certainly, He's the possibility-maker (we couldn't save ourselves if He hadn't opened the door to haeven) but we save ourselves by what WE do. After all, Luther was excommunicated and the RC Denomination split itself over what St. Paul and St. Silas said in this verse, what Jesus said in John 3:16.... Catholics rebuke Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide (john 3:16) as satanic, "the worse heresy ever" - insisting that it's not what JESUS did but what WE do (perhaps empowered by God).



Thank you.


- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Actually, Catholics typically get angry, furious when anyone agrees with St. Paul and St. ...

Nonsense. I am a Catholic and I am the one who said "I will hazard the opinion that all in this thread believe saints Paul and Silas." ... now if you want to write pretend Catholic responses you're doing a fine job but if you want for-real Catholic responses then the one I gave is the one to go with.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Josiah said:
Actually, Catholics typically get angry, furious when anyone agrees with St. Paul and St. Silas in this verse, or when they quote Jesus in John 3:16..... IMMEDIATELY screaming that we do good works to be saved, overshadowing John 3:16 with a very twisted, removed from context quote from James - all the stress that Jesus is not the Savior, He's the Helper certainly, He's the possibility-maker (we couldn't save ourselves if He hadn't opened the door to haeven) but we save ourselves by what WE do. After all, Luther was excommunicated and the RC Denomination split itself over what St. Paul and St. Silas said in this verse, what Jesus said in John 3:16.... Catholics rebuke Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide (john 3:16) as satanic, "the worse heresy ever" - insisting that it's not what JESUS did but what WE do (perhaps empowered by God).




.

Nonsense.



Nonsense. I've been discussing with Catholics since I was 12 (and still Catholic).... I've been at probably two dozen different Christian discussion forums. Since my conversion, since I learned the Gospel some 10 years ago, I have been stating what St. Paul and St. Silas said, what John 3:16 says and at nearly every turn, been repudiated by Catholics (at CatholicAnswers, at ChristianForums, at CARM, at Gracecentered, at all the sites I've posted at)..... IMMEDIATELY referred to James 2 and told that Jesus does not save, we gotta save ourselves by OUR works, that justification is NOT by faith, NOT by Jesus..... Remember: the RCC exommunicated Luther for teaching what St. Paul and St. Silas said, what John 3:16 says: EXCOMMUNICATED. Come on, friend....



Pax


- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,192
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Nonsense. I am a Catholic and I am the one who said "I will hazard the opinion that all in this thread believe saints Paul and Silas." ... now if you want to write pretend Catholic responses you're doing a fine job but if you want for-real Catholic responses then the one I gave is the one to go with.
... I've been discussing with Catholics since I was 12 ...

Having read many of your posts and seen what you euphemistically call "discussion" I have no reason to doubt that the "discussions" you have result in anger. It is all part of the unique, singular, assertive, aggressive style of the conversations no doubt.
 
Top Bottom