The Prosperity Gospel

[Romanos]

For some, this is what they believe and drive home as the Gospel of Christ. While some say many are strongly misguided and following this is aimless.

 

[Alithis]

-i would that you prosper even as your soul prospers ..

through out scripture we see the temporal word is a blurry reflection of the spiritual
to prosper in the temporal world of carnality amounts to nothing because we die and leave with what we came with .. nothing material .

so to prosper in the kingdom of God has nothing to do with material wealth or possession . but everything to do with what treasure we store up in heaven .
the rules of law in the kingdom of heaven differ from the natural rules of the carnal world .

in the kingdom of God the least is greater
the giver gains

but the lord makes it very clear.. If we gain it here in this life then we have already gained it -we have it .
there is not a double reward system
if we gain fame ,praise, recognition or wealth in our walk with him here in this life .. then we have received the reward already .
we forfeit the eternal reward for the temporal version .

so when we listen to some ministry telling us to give money so that it can be multiplied back to us .. and if our motive for falling for that line is so that it will be multiplied back to us in this life then our goals and motives are carnal and aimed at this carnal world and as such will never result in eternal reward . and so , seeking to save in this life we have lost it all in the next .

 

[Josiah]

IMO....

1. There IS a SENSE, at least, in which our gift of faith blesses us - not ONLY with heaven but in a rich, deep variety of ways. Most (maybe nearly all?) of those are spiritual and matters of the heart. My faith gives to me a sense of peace, comfort, hope, courage, strength.... Here and now. I count those as blessings.

2. There is ALSO a sense in which following Christ leads to hardships, persecution, attack - including from Satan. Look what happened to our Lord. Remember the warnings He gave to us. Untold numbers of Christians have become martyrs ("the church is founded on the blood of the martyrs").

3. But I'd be CAREFUL to conclude that the material blessings of our lives is necessarily a DIRECT result of our Christian faith. God causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust alike. MANY a bad person has been profoundly rich, and many a good person has been profoundly poor. I suspect my "personal wealth" is far above the world average - but then I was born in the USA in the midst of a very prosperious time, to middle class, grad school graduate, white parents. I suspect all that had a LOT to do with my economic position today. I'm THANKFUL for ALL I have because I only deserve death. But I'd be careful to NOT equate economics with faith.



Sorry.



- Josiah

 

[Tigger]

Although God can and will bless us at His choosing, I'm pretty much a 'Theology of the Cross' kind of guy. Here's a youtube video produced by Lutheran satire.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Prosperity gospel" beliefs can lead to some very tragic results. I was friends with a person who believed in "prosperity doctrine" and the associated beliefs about healing & faith. That person died of cancer in great distress because of guilt that their personal faith wasn't strong enough to heal them. I know another person who bought a new car on the "name it and claim it" principle and had it repossessed a few months later. Another was pastor of a small meeting and after a couple of years the meeting collapsed due to lack of interest despite many "confessions" of its success. One other person I knew confessed ownership of houses that were obviously owned by somebody else, in disillusion because of failure to obtain what was confessed that person departed from the faith altogether. Thus the evidence that I've personally encountered is that the "prosperity gospel" is far from benign or harmless.

 

[Lamb]

God blesses us so that we can in turn bless others (Genesis 12). Yet, those who believe in a so-called prosperity gospel are not believing in a "gospel" but a lie that their itching ears want to hear.

 

[Alithis]

For some, this is what they believe and drive home as the Gospel of Christ. While some say many are strongly misguided and following this is aimless.

Perhaps it would be advantageous o define -exactly what is "the prosperity gospel " your referring to .

so few seem to know what the actual "good news message is "
yet so many seem to be experts on what the " prosperity good news message is "

after all the word gospel means "good news "
and in scripture the sentance is used as - the good news of Jesus .the anointed one (christ/messiah)

so what is this prosperity good news of jesus ?

any one care to define it in words ?
and perhaps give it in comparison to the non prosperity good news of the lord Jesus the anointed one . ?

 

[tango]

Perhaps it would be advantageous o define -exactly what is "the prosperity gospel " your referring to .

so few seem to know what the actual "good news message is "
yet so many seem to be experts on what the " prosperity good news message is "

after all the word gospel means "good news "
and in scripture the sentance is used as - the good news of Jesus .the anointed one (christ/messiah)

so what is this prosperity good news of jesus ?

any one care to define it in words ?
and perhaps give it in comparison to the non prosperity good news of the lord Jesus the anointed one . ?

Good call on the definition.

For myself when I hear the concept of a prosperity gospel I associate it with the kind of preacher who teaches that perfect health and wealth (sometimes just the wealth without the health) are pretty much guaranteed to Christians as if it were some kind of birthright. Perhaps unsurprisingly it often seems to be associated with a concept of blessings for sale - the idea that if you send your money to me it will be returned to you tenfold or a hundredfold, or maybe that you'll be blessed in proportion to how much you send to me. It does little to further the cause when the likes of Creflo Dollar apparently feel the need to have their own private jet because they can't pray in a regular seat in first class (although in the meantime thousands of people manage to pray just fine in economy class).

 

[Alithis]

Good call on the definition.

For myself when I hear the concept of a prosperity gospel I associate it with the kind of preacher who teaches that perfect health and wealth (sometimes just the wealth without the health) are pretty much guaranteed to Christians as if it were some kind of birthright. Perhaps unsurprisingly it often seems to be associated with a concept of blessings for sale - the idea that if you send your money to me it will be returned to you tenfold or a hundredfold, or maybe that you'll be blessed in proportion to how much you send to me. It does little to further the cause when the likes of Creflo Dollar apparently feel the need to have their own private jet because they can't pray in a regular seat in first class (although in the meantime thousands of people manage to pray just fine in economy class).

ahh yes .. .
so its not that the basis of the gospel is changed -so much as "used " for means other then its intended message . ie -"to profit "

so the term Prosperity gospel is an incorrect term to begin with .
its just the gospel.. but it is then used to coerce monetary gain out of people by presenting it in a manner favorable to the carnal nature

 

[Stravinsk]

For some, this is what they believe and drive home as the Gospel of Christ. While some say many are strongly misguided and following this is aimless.

Insofar as riches and earthly power is concerned (the power to command, order, imprison, take life etc), it is exactly the opposite of Christ's teachings. From a biblical context "the rich" are not just those who have an abundance, but they are often associated with over-abundance and greed, to the point where they have undue influence over their fellow men, and the attainment of, and continued possession of riches, power and influence must be at the expense of others, either outright, through subversion and/or deception or the occulting of knowledge. It is simply not possible for "everyone" to be "rich" in this sense. Nor is it a desireable goal for the meek at heart.

Human health, on the other hand, is something that is mentioned in both the OT and by Messiah through inference. "The pagans" run to and fro, afraid, wondering "what will we wear?", "what will we eat"? "what will we drink" - and how does Messiah respond? By referring to nature. The health of our bodies are tied to nature, how we live and what we consume. I have a peach tree in my yard, and I rarely eat peaches. Every year, the tree brings forth fruit that is not gathered and winds up rotting on the ground. What's in a peach though? Peaches contain compounds that slow and even kill some cancers. Wow, huh? Edit: The compounds are heat sensitive - so they only work in fresh and unprocessed peaches.

Daniel and his men ate only pulse (legumes and vegetables) and water, and were healthier than all the Babylonian King's men.

I believe the Prosperity gospel contains a message that has some truth, but is adulterated also with false teachings.

 

[Lamb]

The Prosperity MOVEMENT actually began around the 1970s but found traces of its beginnings in the 19th century mostly brought on the the Pentecostals. It suggests the name it and claim it theology which to me is very New Age. They believe that those who have enough faith will be the privileged of God.

 

[Romanos]

I'm referencing the likes of Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, etc.

 

[Alithis]

The Prosperity MOVEMENT actually began around the 1970s but found traces of its beginnings in the 19th century mostly brought on the the Pentecostals. It suggests the name it and claim it theology which to me is very New Age. They believe that those who have enough faith will be the privileged of God.

ouh it has far earlier origins than that ... the "selling "of the gospel for financial gain is very ancient. take a part of Gospel mix it with a dash of lie , and make a $buck to aid a goal .

its the very thing Luthar got so upset about .. selling prayers on rolls of paper for people in the non existent purgatory in order to raise funds for the organisation .. yes very old practice indeed .certainly did not begin oi the 70's

 

[Tigger]

Acts 8:18 Simon saw that the Spirit was given to the Samaritans when the apostles placed their hands on them. So he offered Peter and John money.

.This verse could fall into this category also.

 

[Alithis]

yeah...good catch

 

[tango]

I'm referencing the likes of Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, etc.

Not familiar with Joel Osteen's teachings although from what I've heard of him he doesn't sound like someone I would follow. If I can find one of his books at the local thrift store or my church library I'll read it so I can make an informed comment on his teaching.

I read enough about Creflo Dollar and his bid to get people to fund a private jet for him to put me off him for a long time. Nobody needs a private jet for their ministry. If you're too important to sit with the riffraff in economy class (people like the rest of us, the ones who are apparently meant to fund Mr Dollar's opulent desires) then you're not going to come out too well when faced with "the first shall be last".

 

[psalms 91]

I agree that some have abused and misused this idea and yes we will suffer but for Christs sake. There is such a thiing as being blessed by God, look at Abraham, Moses (although not sure three million people wanting to kill you and questioning what you are doing as a blessing), Boaz, seems that if you walk close to God that you get blessed, not just fionancially but spiritually as well. Most will not be rich but God still blesses

 

[Lamb]

I agree that some have abused and misused this idea and yes we will suffer but for Christs sake. There is such a thiing as being blessed by God, look at Abraham, Moses (although not sure three million people wanting to kill you and questioning what you are doing as a blessing), Boaz, seems that if you walk close to God that you get blessed, not just fionancially but spiritually as well. Most will not be rich but God still blesses

Yes He blesses us in ways we don't even know. The Prosperity Gospel preaches wealth and material gains though as a cause of faith and that's not biblical. Remember the woman who put in her mite and she was poor!! Yet she had great faith.

 

[TurtleHare]

If you're too important to sit with the riffraff in economy class (people like the rest of us, the ones who are apparently meant to fund Mr Dollar's opulent desires) then you're not going to come out too well when faced with "the first shall be last".

Would Jesus be flying first class or would he be with the rest of us broke sinners? :gathering: