The Events of the Tribulation

[NewCreation435]

This web site outlines the events of the Tribulations mainly through the book of Revelations.

https://bible.org/illustration/events-tribulation-period

Do you believe in a literal Tribulation period before Jesus returns to earth?

 

[psalms 91]

Absolutely

 

[tango]

This web site outlines the events of the Tribulations mainly through the book of Revelations.

https://bible.org/illustration/events-tribulation-period

Do you believe in a literal Tribulation period before Jesus returns to earth?

I'm inclined to believe in some form of tribulation period but really struggle to align Tim LaHaye's version of a pretribulation rapture to my understanding of Scripture.

 

[Andrew]

My church is doing a great teaching on the end times. The dead in Christ rise first and those who are alive in Christ are caught up after them/with them. Then the 7 year tribulation ends when Christ and his army of angels return where we reign with Christ on Earth... maybe I can post the video when its uploaded

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[NewCreation435]

I'm inclined to believe in some form of tribulation period but really struggle to align Tim LaHaye's version of a pretribulation rapture to my understanding of Scripture.

I've had the same struggle. I struggle with the idea that the rapture and the second coming are two different events rather than the same thing

 

[NewCreation435]

My church is doing a great teaching on the end times. The dead in Christ rise first and those who are alive in Christ are caught up after them/with them. Then the 7 year tribulation ends when Christ and his army of angels return where we reign with Christ on Earth... maybe I can post the video when its uploaded

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I'm aware of the teaching. I first heard about this around 1983 as a teenager.

 

[psalms 91]

catching away caught up in the air, not a return, touching down at the end of tribulation, Christs second coming, a return

 

[Andrew]

https://youtu.be/5_Wc-pcTv-w
https://youtu.be/zlxlFqQQCU4

I didnt get to attend these first two (of three) only because pentecostal hours are crazy, i think the second was last night and the third I made it for sunday service but it hasnt been uploaded yet

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[tango]

I've had the same struggle. I struggle with the idea that the rapture and the second coming are two different events rather than the same thing

I read some of Tim LaHaye's work (the books presented as factual, as opposed to the Left Behind series) and really got the impression he was trying to shoehorn Scripture to support the conclusion, rather than using Scripture to draw a conclusion.

I can't help thinking there's a degree of arrogance in assuming we're somehow sufficiently special to not face persecution for our faith. When Christians around the world and throughout history have faced persecution and martyrdom for their faith there's no obvious reason why Christians in the west should get a free pass and conveniently whisked away before everything goes south.

Maybe it will work out that way, but personally I'm not expecting it.

 

[NewCreation435]

I read some of Tim LaHaye's work (the books presented as factual, as opposed to the Left Behind series) and really got the impression he was trying to shoehorn Scripture to support the conclusion, rather than using Scripture to draw a conclusion.

I can't help thinking there's a degree of arrogance in assuming we're somehow sufficiently special to not face persecution for our faith. When Christians around the world and throughout history have faced persecution and martyrdom for their faith there's no obvious reason why Christians in the west should get a free pass and conveniently whisked away before everything goes south.

Maybe it will work out that way, but personally I'm not expecting it.

No, I'm not counting on it to go that way either.

 

[tango]

I didnt get to attend these first two (of three) only because pentecostal hours are crazy, i think the second was last night and the third I made it for sunday service but it hasnt been uploaded yet

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It would be really nice to get transcripts rather than the opportunity to sit through over two hours of video.

 

[Andrew]

It would be really nice to get transcripts rather than the opportunity to sit through over two hours of video.

lol yeah I know, plus he starts off really slow and then has to rush it through toward the end. Les Feldick does a remarkable job on this subject.

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[Josiah]

"heresy is seldom the result of a man saying too little but rather a man saying too much." The teacher of my doctrine class.

I think WAY too much has been made of all this "end times" stuff.

 

[NewCreation435]

"heresy is seldom the result of a man saying too little but rather a man saying too much." The teacher of my doctrine class.

I think WAY too much has been made of all this "end times" stuff.

I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be much interest in end times theology on this forum for some reason. While other forums that is all they talk about. I wonder why the lack of interest since it is about things yet to happen?

 

[psalms 91]

I am very interested but seeeing some of the other discussions I havent brought it up as there seems to be such a wide difference of opinion on even basic doctrine. Some call that good discussion but I call it being unequally yoked. I dont mind a certain amount of discussion but I also like like minded people

 

[Andrew]

I have noticed that there doesn't seem to be much interest in end times theology on this forum for some reason. While other forums that is all they talk about. I wonder why the lack of interest since it is about things yet to happen?

I used to be obsessed with bible prophesy of end times and after hundreds of youtube videos I've seen so many theories or interpretations and no one seems to agree, its all a one up game with them. It would be interesting to discuss it with actual bible thumpers here rather than "YouTube Christians" and the other Christian forum boards are a bit nutty and chaotic, Christian Haven seems to be the only intellectual discussion board I found

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[tango]

I am very interested but seeeing some of the other discussions I havent brought it up as there seems to be such a wide difference of opinion on even basic doctrine. Some call that good discussion but I call it being unequally yoked. I dont mind a certain amount of discussion but I also like like minded people

Good discussion with people who hold a very different view is probably more productive than discussion with people who hold the same view. Personally I find the best way to understand an opposing viewpoint is to look for ways to defend it.

 

[Andrew]

I wish to note too that there is a catch when talking about tribulation, that being that we should not be here to identify the events as we will have been caught up or taken out of these events and wont return until they are over.
For instance, in 'theory', we shouldnt know what the mark of the beast is if we have the mark of God and we were taken up BUT if we aren't taken up as the 24 elders (the true Church) then we are among the rebellious, being so you can still be saved if we accept the word of God and become one among his tribulation saints (those who serve him with palms in their hands) for the word will be there even in tribulation. That being said I believe that as believers we should be caught up with Christ following those who have died in Christ or will be soon persecuted by death during the tribulation... hope that makes sense and I hope I'm not here to experience the tribulation

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[NewCreation435]

I wish to note too that there is a catch when talking about tribulation, that being that we should not be here to identify the events as we will have been caught up or taken out of these events and wont return until they are over.
For instance, in 'theory', we shouldnt know what the mark of the beast is if we have the mark of God and we were taken up BUT if we aren't taken up as the 24 elders (the true Church) then we are among the rebellious, being so you can still be saved if we accept the word of God and become one among his tribulation saints (those who serve him with palms in their hands) for the word will be there even in tribulation. That being said I believe that as believers we should be caught up with Christ following those who have died in Christ or will be soon persecuted by death during the tribulation... hope that makes sense and I hope I'm not here to experience the tribulation

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I believe the intention of the rapture is that God makes a difference between the saved and the lost. The scripture that comes to mind is in Genesis 18:24-26 where God and Abram are speaking and Abram is pleading for Sodom, in part because he knows Lot lives there. He says

24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

So, if God will spare Sodom if there was 50 righteous doesn't it make sense that God would spare the world or not bring about a worldwide judgment if there are literally millions of Christians all over the world? But, if the church is removed then judgment would be inflicted only on the lost. I believe this is the basis for the thinking of the rapture along with a few passages that talk about being "caught up" in the air which is what rapture means "to be caught up".

 

[psalms 91]

I believe the intention of the rapture is that God makes a difference between the saved and the lost. The scripture that comes to mind is in Genesis 18:24-26 where God and Abram are speaking and Abram is pleading for Sodom, in part because he knows Lot lives there. He says

24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

So, if God will spare Sodom if there was 50 righteous doesn't it make sense that God would spare the world or not bring about a worldwide judgment if there are literally millions of Christians all over the world? But, if the church is removed then judgment would be inflicted only on the lost. I believe this is the basis for the thinking of the rapture along with a few passages that talk about being "caught up" in the air which is what rapture means "to be caught up".

I agree and I also think thta there will be very hard times for Christians before we are taken out simply because of the verse that says but for the elects sake and I also believe that God will winnow out those who only mouth it and sit in church once a week instead of doing what Jesus did and following Him, those who are in the world and church and trying to balance the two will find out what God thinks of that