The basics of Christian theology

Jazzy

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
3,283
Location
Vermont
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What are the basics of Christian theology?
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
How about these seven points?


God Is!

All religions assume that there is a SUPER-natural, something outside and beyond the natural or physical realm. We of course can’t prove this via physics and science because it doesn’t belong to nature, it’s outside that. We argue that this is reasonable and credible; and Scripture seems to argue it’s manifest even in nature (Romans 1:19-21, Psalm 19:1-3). For Western religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) supreme in this is the Divine, God.

“In the beginning, God….” (Genesis 1:1). Christianity begins with the affirmation that God exists. Like the Bible itself, we don’t attempt to “prove” this in any absolute or mathematical sense, we rather affirm that it is a great reality… THE great reality! Perhaps the most important reality of all! Christianity is “monotheistic” affirming that there is one and only one God.

We affirm that God is the Creator (Genesis 1:1, Hebrews 11:3), He is eternal (Psalm 90:2), He is not evolving (Malachi 3:6), He is all-powerful (Genesis 17:1), all – knowing (Psalm 139:1-4), all – present (Jeremiah 23:24), morally perfect (Leviticus 19:2), just (Deuteronomy 32:4) faithful/dependable (2 Timothy 2:13), compassionate (Psalm 145:9-10) and filled with unconditional love (1 John 4:8). And that’s a mouth full!

While most people believe in some supernatural reality, Christianity affirms that God is much more than a “first cause” (deism) or “life force” (pantheism) or some “unknowable it” (monism). We affirm that God is PERSONAL – with attributes very much like a person. “God is love!” (1 John 1:8), “God was sorry” (Genesis 6:6), “God hears us” (1 John 5:14), “God hates such things” (Proverbs 6:16), “God cares about you” (1 Peter 5:7) and so on – personal characteristics! These are more than pious anthropomorphisms; they affirm that our God relates to us, in personal, intimate ways!

Our conviction that God loves and saves and forgives and answers prayer and so much more all flow from this conviction that God really is and He really cares and is really involved in our world and lives. He is not some abstract Reality or philosophical concept or cosmic Force that may be used or manipulated or evaded or simply must be accepted; He is not “out there” somewhere – aloof and unaware. No! He is the “Immanuel” – the God WITH us and FOR us!

In Christianity, everything is from the perspective of this God. Christianity is a very God-centered religion! Eastern and native religions are man-centered, all about man and man’s quest to find God or appease God or become God or manipulate God. Christianity reverses that; Christianity is about God becoming man in the person and work of Jesus Christ.


God is holy!


In some “native” religions, the Divine is very much as we are – sinful, made in our image. The gods can act horribly and sinfully. And this makes them terrifying. Indeed, a “god” who is above us and strongly impacting us who is sinful, well, that’s a terrible thing!

Christianity affirms that God is morally perfect (Leviticus 1:2, Isaiah 6:3, 1 Peter 1:15-16, Revelation 15:4). God simply cannot sin… it,s simply entirely outside of His nature and being. A toaster cannot fly simply because it’s not its nature, it’s not what it does.

This attribute is one He holds as of great importance… and one that is to characterize His children. We were created in this… and we are to called to this holiness, reflecting this divine quality (Matthew 5:48… more on this in a future session).

Like monotheism, this quality of God seems first to have been affirmed by Judaism (there’s no evidence of anyone affirming the Divine as holy before Moses); This seems more stressed in the Old Testament, but it’s foundational also in the New because our failure to be holy is the basis of our need for salvation and the Savior. And of course, Christians are to be marked by their morality (and the next point).


Continues in next post....


.
 
Last edited:

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Continuing from above....


God loves!


”God is love!” (1 John 4:8). Indeed a “god” who is very real and very powerful – but nnot moral and loving – is a “god” to FEAR! But Christians affirm that God is, above all, both morally good and loving!

“God loves” is the concept for which Christianity is best known. For Muslims, the central ‘hub’ is “God is one.” For Judaism, it’s “God is holy.” While we agree with both of those things, our “hub” is that God is LOVE – everything flows from that affirmation and conviction! God LOVES! Me! It’s the root, the foundation, the starting-point, the key point of Christianity.

The entire New Testament is supersaturated with this concept! The word “love” appears 51 times in just the single book of First John - which is only 5 chapters long! John 3:16 is probably the most quoted verse by Christians – and for good reasons!

“Agape” is the Greek word for it. The word means unconditional love, love that is poured out irrespective of merit or the worthiness of the recipient. Not unlike how parents are passionately in love with their yet unborn child – who has not yet done ANYTHING to deserve all the love and sacrifice Mom and Dad are lavishing on him/her. Agape is unconditional, unmerited. It flows from the lover (God) to the object of that love (us) irrespective of what we deserve.

The two great Christian festivals both stress this unmerited, unconditional LOVE of God. At Christmas, people ignored Christ, the innkeeper relegated Him to a barn, King Herald even tried to kill Him! AND YET – God’s LOVE prevailed. On that cold, silent night, in that barn, amid the straw and animals, the Savior was born for you and me. At Easter, the people rejected Him, deserted Him and betrayed Him. The religious leaders (who clearly knew better) subjected him to a mock trial so absurd even they must have been embarrassed, they twisted the arm of the Roman governor who clearly wanted nothing to do with this, they tortured Him and horribly crucified Him. AND YET – God’s LOVE prevailed! Jesus died for you and me. The Bible puts it this way, “Not because we love Him but because He loves us.” (1 John 4:10).

This fundamental embrace of God’s unconditional love is at the very root of Christianity.



God acts!

God doesn’t just sit up there, somewhere, passive and aloof. No! Ours is a God of ACTION. Christianity tells the story of what GOD has done, which perhaps is why most of the Bible is history – HIS story. Christian teachings are about what GOD has done and what GOD does; the arrow is from God to us! The emphasis is NOT on what we do for God but on what God does for us.

Think of all the Christian holidays, every one is about what God has done for us! Christmas, Palm Sunday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Easter, Ascension, Pentecost – every single one of them is about God loving us, God seeking us, God doing for us, God giving to us, God blessing us, God saving us. God acts! For us! He is the active giver, we are the passive receivers.

The universal symbol of the Christian religion is not a heart but the Cross, because Christianity is not about emotion but action. God’s love was not just a warm, fuzzy feeling in God’s heart like the “gods” of other religions that smile down upon us but don’t do a thing for us. No, God’s love is an active, doing, giving, blessing reality because if love doesn’t have a “so that” when so what?

Christians tend to define God with VERBS (loves, cares, forgives….) rather than with nouns; we are much more focused on what God does than on metaphysical discussions of what He is.

Appreciating the significance of this is critical to understanding historic, orthodox Christian theology. If we forget this and lump Christianity together with all the false religions, if we assume that it’s what we do for God, how we please and bless Him, then much of Christianity will make no sense.


God relates!

Christianity is about the loving, living, trusting, personal RELATIONSHIP that exists between God and us. The very word “Christian” means “to be in Christ.”

So much of the Bible stresses this very point. “You shall be my people and I shall be your God” (Leviticus 26:12), “We are the children of God” (1 John 3:1), “Because we are His children, God sent the spirit of His Son into our hearts crying ‘Abba, Father’ (“Abba” means Daddy).” (Galatians 4:5). “We abide in God and He in us” (1 John 4:13), “I am with you always!” (Matthew 28:20),

It is no coincidence that God uses the term “Father” to speak of Himself and uses the term “children” to refer to us – both strong RELATIONAL terms. It’s no coincidence that Jesus begins His model prayer with the words, “Our Father.” And it’s no surprise that when Christians speak of God, they almost always do so with relational terms and allusions. So does God!

This is the basis of Christian morality. “We love because God first loved us!” (1 John 4:9). “A new commandment I give to you, that you love as I first loved you.” (John 13:34) Note the order! We do not love so that God will love us, no! We love because God first loved us! As God’s love for us lead to action, so our love for Him and others leads to action. God first gives to us, then we share with those around us. OUR morality and love flow from GOD’S morality and love – out of the relationship we have with Him.

This is also the basis for Christian comfort. There’s the story of a hospital that was having problems in the nursery. The walls were painted plaster, the ceiling the same, and the floors hard tile. As a result, every noise in the nursery echoed and reverberated so that the crying of one baby would wake up all the others and soon there was a constant din of wailing! One nurse suggested that they play music to calm them, but this only added to the noise. Then another nurse had a radical idea. She taped the sound of her heart beating. That’s all, just the sound of her heart beating. It worked. Christians understand that! We are comforted as we hear the sound of God’s heart beating for us. We may not know the future, we may not escape the storm, but we are in His loving arms, close to His heart, and we can hear it beating – for us.


Continues in the next post....


.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Continuing from above....


In addition to these affirmations, we also affirm that…

God is Triune!

One of the most ecumenical teachings of Christianity is the Trinity (it’s the only doctrine celebrated in the Church Year – on Trinity Sunday). But it wasn’t easy!

The Bible, from Genesis – Revelation, is a profoundly MONOTHEISTIC (“one God”) book, proclaiming this truth loudly over and over (1 Corinthians 8:4, Isaiah 44:6, Deuteronomy 6:4). BUT, also from Genesis through Revelation, there is also a certain multiple-ness about God. How do we embrace this – affirming both and denying neither?

Some verses seem to stress the “three ness” of God (1 Peter 1:3, 1 Corinthians 13:14, Matthew 3:16-17, Galatians 4:5, John 5:23, John 20:28, John 19:30, Philippians 2:10-11, Acts 5:3-4, Psalm 139:7-8), often showing the “persons” very independently. These – taken alone and out of context – could suggest that there are 3 “gods” yet Scripture says there is ONE God.

Just to make things even more difficult, Scripture says that all 3 “persons” are equal in existence – none before or after the other (all eternal – no beginning or end).. There is, however, a difference in authority, a certain “chain of command” within the Trinity.

This was one of the “issues” early Christians really struggled with, and the debate threatened to tear Christianity apart. Some stressed the “three-ness” saying there are 3 Gods but they are so united in love, will and purpose that we may speak of them as if one (one in purpose rather than essence). Others said that there is one God but He has 3 roles or jobs or functions (rather like masks – thus the Greek term “persona” – mask - from which we still have the term “person” when speaking of God) but it’s the same God behind each one. Ultimately, these “explanations” and extremes were rejected (heresies still heard!). God IS one but God IS Father/Son/Holy Spirit. We cannot stress one over the other but must keep them in balance. We should affirm what God says – and leave it there! God is a TRI-UNITY, 3 in unity; He is TRI-UNE, Three-yet-One or Three-in-One. The ‘physics’ of this is simply left entirely to mystery – but the result is that we affirm that God IS one but there is some very real “three-ness” about Him that is equally true. The Nicene Creed (ca. 325 AD) was written in part to affirm this Trinitarian understanding. All this is “spelled out” in its final form as part of the Athanasian Creed – one of the three ancient “Ecumenical Creeds” embraced by Lutherans, Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican, and some Protestant denominations.

In historic, traditional, orthodox Christianity, we speak much of MYSTERY. Scripture calls us to be “stewards of the MYSTERIES of God.” It means we won’t always be able (in fact, perhaps usually not be able) to “wrap” our puny brains around the things of God – nor do we need to. It’s okay to ask questions, seek understanding (and that’s helpful) but we need to be careful that we don’t say too much, that we don’t think too highly of ourselves and our brains, that we don’t reverse things because we are to believe God, God has no need to believe us. It’s okay (often wise) to be humble before God, to admit we don’t fully understand things. These are often LOFTY things! Sometimes we just need to stand in awe of our God…. And believe. Luther said, “Humility is the basis of all sound theology.”


Continues in the next post....



.
 
Last edited:

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Continuing from above....


Jesus!


Jesus is the God/Man


Scripture teaches that Jesus is unique in many ways! This includes His very nature – for He is not JUST a human being (what we obviously can see) but He is also God!

He is a real “flesh and blood” human being, the son of Mary, a Hebrew descendent of Abraham, a Jew of the line of Judah and David (Galatians 4:4, John 19:34, 1 Timothy 2:5). But He is also the “incarnate” Second Person of the Trinity (John 20:28, 1 John 5:20). He is altogether BOTH God and Man (the Two Natures of Christ); 100% human and 100% God. Always.

These natures are united and inseparable but not blended into one. The “interplay” of these two natures (called “The Communication of Attributes”) is difficult stuff beyond the scope of our study here – but it’s enough to say that sometimes we see Jesus primarily in one nature or the other, but we must never forget He was/is always and fully both. This can be pretty “heavy” stuff and with a lot of mystery in this– we’ll need to wait for Christianity 201 (or maybe 301) to explore this more. This is enough: Jesus is fully BOTH God and man.

The Two Natures of Christ was another of the huge debates in the Early Church (the Trinity being the other biggie). This was a similar issue: sometimes Jesus is presented as fully human, other times as fully God. WHICH is true was a hot debate! Some argued that He is fully God but only LOOKED like a human being, rather like a ghost (Docetism), others that He was fully human but not really divine, just represented God on earth (Arianism, etc). And still others that both existed but fully separate (Nestorianism) and others that the two natures were blended into one entirely different and new nature. Early Christians prayed, studied Scripture, debated and prayed. In the end, the embraced that there is mystery here but that BOTH are equally and fully true, and physics or philosophy just can’t explain it. Scripture is to be taken at face value – even if we don’t understand it. He is BOTH fully God and man – inseparately and not blended. We accept this – and just stop where Scripture does, leaving our questions as our questions. This was finally affirmed at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.


Jesus is without sin


Because Jesus is God and God is without sin, one of the “functions” of the communication of attributes is that Jesus is completely without sin – He IS morally perfect and DOES fulfill the Law – He is the only human example of that (Well, Adam and Eve before the Fall). This sinlessness of Jesus is an important teaching of the New Testament (Hebrews 4:15, John 8:46, John 8:29, John 17:19, John 18:38, Matthew 27:19, Luke 23:41, Matthew 27:4, 2 Corinthians 5:21, etc.). We’ll later see why this is so important.

By His two natures, Jesus has all the attributes of God and all the attributes of man – except for sin.


Jesus is THE Savior!


“You will give him the name Jesus for he will save the people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). “Jesus is the Savior of the world” (John 4:42). “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven by which we are saved” (Acts 4:12). “For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son Jesus, that whoever believes in Him will not perish but has everlasting life” (John 3:16). “I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes unto the Father except by me.” It’s understandable that we spend FAR less time and effort on metaphysical stuff about Jesus and far more time celebrating what He did and does! He is the Savior!

Our salvation is the result of GOD’S heart, will and work – not our own. Nor is this a mixture of our works and His works (synergism) so that Jesus is PARTLY the Savior and we are PARTLY the Savior, no, Jesus IS the Savior. We are to keep our hearts and faith focused squarely and only on Jesus who ALONE is THE Savior.

Ask yourself: “Who is the Savior?” If it’s Jesus, then it’s not you. And that’s good news! My salvation is not dependent on MY feeble, lacking, errant efforts but on the perfect Jesus – His life, His death, His resurrection.

JESUS (and He alone, there is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved)

IS (really, actually)

THE (one and only, all sufficient)

SAVIOR (not just possibility maker or offerer or helper but the One who DOES it - all of it)


We are saved by His grace and mercy, by His life and death and resurrection! Our faith, our rest, our certainty are in Christ! Our peace, our confidence, our certainty are in Christ!

It’s not a case of Jesus did His part (the part that actually saves no one) and we do our part (the part that actually means we go to heaven) and together, the job gets done. It’s NOT “Jesus opened the gate to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it.” It’s not “Jesus did 99% of it, you just need to do the remaining 1%.”

Sadly, that “Jesus Plus Me” view is pretty common, OUR works added to the requirements of John 3:16 so that it reads, “For God so loved the world so that those who do “X, Y and Z” will not perish but have everlasting life.” In that case, the key factor then is not Christ but our performance of “X, Y and Z” – not His work but our work, WE become the Savior, not Christ. And we must worry if we’ve done “X, Y and Z” well enough, if we’ve done enough, if we’ve done well enough, if we’ve been sufficient. IF we answer “NO” the result is a “terror of the conscience” so that we never know if we are forgiven or saved or heaven-bound or not. IF we answer “YES” the result is often a prideful, self-righteous, condemning modern-day Pharisee. We must not mix our works with Christ’s works, the cause of salvation with the fruit of salvation. The result is the “peace that passes all understanding” and love that isn’t selfish and self-serving but truly of God.

The Five Solas...

Sola Gratia (Grace Alone). “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8, see also Romans 6:23, Titus 3:5, etc.). This places emphasis that our salvation flows from God’s heart – not ours. Grace is God’s unmerited, unconditional love. Grace means “getting what we don’t deserve.” It is “God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense”

Solus Christus (Christ Alone). “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). “There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved” (Acts 4:12). “No one comes to the Father except by Me” (John 14:6). Christ IS our Savior and our salvation. It’s CHRIST’s perfect live, CHRIST’s perfect sacrifice, CHRIST’s triumphant resurrection! Christ is the object of our faith. It is not how much we believe or how good we believe but in Whom we believe; our focus is on the quality of Christ’s work rather than on the quality of our faith; HE is our certainty.

Sola Fide (Faith Alone). “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!” (Acts 16:30-31. Also see John 3:16, Acts 10:43, etc.). This proclaims that His grace and salvation are embraced by God’s gift of faith. Faith means to trust or rely upon. It means to have active confidence or reliance especially upon something “unseen” or “unproven.”

Soli Deo Gloria (To God Alone be the glory). This simply proclaims that God gets ALL the credit for my salvation. His works, not mine. He is the Savior, not me.

“For God so loved the world (Sola Gratia) that He gave His only begotten Son (Solus Christus) that whosoever believes in Him (Sola Fide) will not perish but has everlasting life!” Soli Deo Gloria!


A word about faith…

“For by grace you have been saved through faith in Christ, and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God” Ephesians 2:8
“We are justified by faith” Romans 5:1
“God justifies he who has faith in Jesus Christ. Romans 3:26

The word “faith” means to rely, to trust. In its use here, it means to rely on Christ for Salvation (and beyond). It is the means by which we embrace the promise and the work of Christ. Faith is not our doing, it is the ‘gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). Faith is not just (or even primarily) a cognitive or mental thing. Faith means to place our trust, our life in another – to rely. When we ride in an airplane, we may not understand how the plane flies – but we can board the plane and literally entrust our very lives to it. We may submit to surgery and to a surgeon whom we don’t even know and have no idea what will happen – literally entrusting our very life to him/her. Trust is a key factor in lives (to not trust is to be paranoid). For a Christian, we trust our soul and much of our life to God. In salvation, we trust in His works rather than in our own, we look to HIS perfect life rather than our sinful one, to His death rather than the one we deserve. We are placing our lives in His loving hands.

While God can give faith “immediately” (as He did to John the Baptist before he was even born), NORMALLY He works through means. We call these “The Means of Grace,” “Tools in the hands of the Carpenter.” While in the broadest sense, these could be anything, we usually group them into “Word” and “Sacrament.” God working through the proclamation of the Gospel (“Word”) and through Baptism. Because MEANS are involved, we are involved by applying those (with love). Thus the Great Commission: (You) GO and make disciples of everyone, baptizing them… teaching them.”


Blessings!


- Josiah



.
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
.
What are the basics of Christian theology?

1) Christianity begins with a supreme being and intelligent design.

Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

2) Christianity alleges that humans were created rather than evolved.

Gen 1:27 . . God created Man

3) Christianity alleges that Man is supreme in the grand scheme of things.

Gen 1:26 . . Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of
the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
that creepeth upon the earth.

4) Christianity alleges that there are only two genders.

Gen 1:27 . . male and female created he them.

5) Christianity alleges that women were constructed with material taken from a man.

Gen 2:21-22 . . And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he
slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib
which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman.


NOTE: The Hebrew word translated rib has no reference to a specific skeletal bone.
It simply means side, viz: both flesh and bone. (Gen 2:23)
_
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
6) Christianity alleges that men and women were intended to be together, as
unified couples.

Gen 2:24 . . A man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto
his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

7) Christianity alleges the husband was given a primary role, and the wife was given
a secondary role.

Gen 2:18 . .The Lord God said: It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a
helper suitable for him.

8) Christianity alleges the first couple started out innocent, viz: their moral
perception was at first free of a guilt complex relative to sex and the human body.

Gen 2:25 . . And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

9) Christianity alleges there is a Devil-- an intelligent Devil.

Gen 3:1 . . The Serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord
God had made.


NOTE: "Serpent" is an alter ego of the creature also known as Satan. (Rev 12:9)
_
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
10) Christianity alleges that the entire human family-- regardless of race, color, or
gender --descends from that first man.

Acts 17:26 . . From one man He made every nation of men, that they should
inhabit the whole earth.

** The Greek word translated "nation" pertains to ethnic identity, e.g. Inuit, Pacific
Islander, Asian, Caucasian, Hispanic, Ethiopian, Semitic, Native American, Aboriginal,
Pigmy, et al.

11) Christianity alleges that mortality is universal due to the effects of the first
man's conduct.

He was forbidden to eat from a specific tree. Long story short, he did anyway;
which eventuated in his death. However, the man's mortality came as no surprise
seeing as how he was fully aware of the consequences for stepping over the line.

Now the thing: the man wasn't alone eating from that tree. In accord with a very
strange aspect of justice-- that I have thus far found impossible to understand --the
man's entire posterity was included as joint principals with him in the act, viz: not
in their own time, but in his time, i.e. the very moment that the incident occurred.

Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin
brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

"for everyone sinned" is grammatically past tense. So then Romans isn't talking
about the sins that Adam's posterity commit during their own lives, no, it's talking
about the first man's life, viz: Adam's forbidden-fruit sin.


FAQ: Was Adam's conduct Hell-worthy?

REPLY: No; the appropriate consequence for the forbidden-fruit incident is mortality.
So when people pass away, that particular matter is settled once and for all.


FAQ: Was Jesus implicated too? After all: it is very easy to show the first man was
among Jesus' paternal ancestors.


REPLY: Yes, had Jesus not been executed he would've eventually died of some
other cause.


FAQ: How then can it be truthfully said he was a lamb without spot or blemish?

REPLY: Jesus committed no personal sins of his own to answer for. (John 8:29,
2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)
_
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
12) Christianity alleges that walking with God involves more than rituals, rites,
and/or church attendance. (cf. John 4:21-24)

For example; Cain's offering was refused whereas his brother's was accepted.

"The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering
He did not look with favor." (Gen 4:4-5)

The thing to note is that God looked upon the men + their offerings, rather than
looking only upon their offerings. So Cain himself is where we need to focus our
attention because that's where God put the emphasis when speaking to him person
to person.


Gen 4:6-7 . .Then the Lord said to Cain . . . If you do what is right, will you not
be accepted?

The most obvious not-right conduct in Cain's life was animosity towards his brother.

"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your
brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First
go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift." (Matt 5:23-24)

In point of fact, Cain not only eventually slew Abel, but even resented his brother's
piety, viz: Cain hated Abel for the simple fact that he was a good man.

1John 3:12 . . And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil
and his brother's were righteous.

** You know, God has as much right to pick His own companions as anybody else;
and people like Cain are just too incompatible.
_
 
Last edited:

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
13) Christianity alleges that God-given diets are flexible.

Gen 9:3 . . Every creature that lives shall be yours to eat; as with the green
grasses, I give you all these.

Bible students are often curious about the disparity between what was right and
wrong for Noah and what was right and wrong for Moses since the laws of God are
supposedly absolute in any era.

Well; for one thing; God's codified laws are not retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17)

And for another; God-given diets are typically in effect only during a specific era,
and sometimes only for a specific people. For example: Christ's followers are
permitted to eat whatever want because their association with God is governed by
a different covenant than that governing Moses' people. (Matt 26:27-28)
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
14) Christianity alleges that viable meat is unfit for human consumption.

Gen 9:4 . .You must not, however, eat flesh with its life-blood in it.

Life-blood speaks of meat that hasn't begun to spoil; viz: it's still fresh enough for a
transfusion and contains enough active ingredients to carry oxygen and heal
wounds.

Ancient Jews understood it that way.

T. But flesh which is torn of the living beast, what time the life is in it, or that torn
from a slaughtered animal before all the breath has gone forth, you shall not eat.

(Targum Jonathan)

The way I see it: Man isn't forbidden to dine upon raw meat; only that it absolutely
has to be dead with no chance of recovery. Same with blood. This law is the very
first law God laid down in the new world after the Flood. It has never been
repealed, and remains among the list of primary rules imposed upon Christians.

"You are to abstain from blood that's from the meat of strangled animals." (Acts
15:28-29)

A strangled animal still has all of its blood in it. The animal might be brain dead,
and its heart may have stopped beating, but its flesh will remain alive for some
time by reason of the viable blood still in its veins.

Recent changes to CPR procedures include no longer giving victims mouth-to mouth
respiration for the first few minutes because the blood in a victim's system still
contains useful oxygen that can save their life merely by pumping the chest as
before.

Because of the danger of pathogens, it was quite possibly necessary to add this
limitation to the grant of liberty to eat meat, lest, instead of nourishing his body by
it, Man should inadvertently destroy himself; and in this day and age of E.coli
0157:H7, E.coli 0104:H4, and salmonella; adequately cooking meat can be
considered a form of self defense.

The prohibition against eating living flesh and blood is neither Jewish, nor is it
Christian. It's universal; because God enacted that law long before there were any
Jews or Christians. All human beings are under its jurisdiction. Man can eat all the
raw meat he wants; and he can eat blood too; but he has absolutely no permission
to eat either blood or meat that's still alive.

The animal world isn't so fussy. They routinely devour their prey alive all the time.
Hopefully no one reading this will ever stoop that low. The very best way to assure
that meat and its blood are dead is to cook it-- thoroughly; and double check it with
a meat thermometer. That's my own personal opinion as I am aware of the
popularity of sushi. (cf. Rom 14:1-3)

At issue with the prohibition against eating blood are the feelings of some that
modern slaughter houses don't always kill animals properly. Many use a device
called a captured-bolt to stun the animals and then workers slit the animals' throats
while they're unconscious. Sometimes the bolt kills an animal instead of knocking it
out and then all that the slaughter house has to work with is gravity because the
animal's heart isn't pumping to assist. So there are those who feel no one should
eat common meat because you can't guarantee the animal's blood was properly
drained.

The precise characteristics of a "properly drained" animal are debatable because it's
impossible to drain every last drop of blood out of meat no matter how you might
go about it; so the prohibition against eating blood has got to be interpreted from a
practical perspective rather than from a purist's.

There are cultures that poke holes in cows' necks in order to drink blood straight
out of the animal utilizing its own blood pressure like a tap to fill their cups. Other
cultures cut open the thorax of animals freshly taken in hunting in order to take
blood-soaked bites of the animal's heart. Those examples are probably about as
close to vampirism as one can get without actually joining Edward Cullen's family
and undergoing the conversion process.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
15) Christianity alleges that capital punishment for murder is mandatory.

Gen 9:5 . . But for your own life-blood I will require a reckoning: I will require it
of every beast; of man, too, will I require a reckoning for human life, of every man
for that of his fellow man!

This law is universal regardless of one's age, race, gender and/or religious
preference. It applies to every family of Man and Beast that descends from the ark;
no exceptions: and we can't lay this responsibility off on God because He requires it
to be enforced by Man rather than Himself.

Gen 9:6a . .Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed;

God requires an investigation into the death of a human being whenever it is
caused by another human being or by a member of the animal kingdom. If the
killing cannot be justified, the perpetrator has to be executed at the hands of
human beings: no exceptions.

The death penalty here in Gen 9:6 is mandatory only for murder; which Webster's
defines as: the crime of unlawfully killing a person; especially with malice
aforethought. The key word in that definition is "unlawfully"

Capital punishment for murder isn't optional. The word "shall" indicates an edict: it
is mistaken for someone to think they're in step with God while actively opposing
the death penalty.

Gen 9:6b . . For in His image did God make man.

So then; indiscriminate killing wasn't banned because it's immoral, but rather,
because it demeans the honor and dignity of God. Apparently, were humanity
lacking His image, people could go on safari and stalk each other like game animals
and mount human heads as trophies of the hunt.

The image of God lends humanity a measure of respect that it wouldn't have
otherwise.

"You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and
honor and put everything under his feet." (Heb 2:7-8)

Without that measure of respect, humanity would just be another in the long list of
expendable species.

Refusal to pursue the death penalty for murder denigrates the sanctity of Almighty
God. So we should never condone insistence that capital punishment for murder is
wrong. No; capital punishment for murder isn't wrong; au contraire, capital
punishment for murder is divine.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
FAQ: Don't you think it's better to lock all murderers away for life rather than risk
taking the lives of those who are innocent?


REPLY: It is never better to disobey God. The first couple did, and you see what
that got them.

Resistance is on a scale with dark arts and the worship of Shiva and Vishnu.

"Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the
voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat
of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity
and idolatry. (1Sam 15:22-23)

In war, commanders expect a percentage of casualties by human error and/or
friendly fire; and those kinds of casualties are usually factored in as acceptable
losses. But it isn't wise to turn off a war off just because somebody might get hurt
by friendly fire. Accidents happen; even under ideal conditions.

It's the same with the war on crime. Just because a percentage of innocent people
get executed for something they didn't do, is no excuse to get in bed with the Devil
and oppose God's edicts.

America's justice system, although far from perfect, has a pretty good batting
average. The overwhelming majority of people dead from executions fully deserved
what they got. Only a tiny percentage are victims of error; and those percentages
should always be considered acceptable losses in any legitimate endeavor to
protect domestic tranquility.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
16) Christianity alleges that all human beings today are Noah's paternal
descendants

"Now the sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Japheth.
These three were the sons of Noah; and from these the whole earth was
populated." (Gen 9:18-19)


FAQ: From whence did Noah's sons find wives?

REPLY: Incest wasn't codified until many centuries after the Flood via the covenant
that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy.

The codified laws of God are not retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13,
and Gal 3:17) That being the situation, then Noah's sons were at liberty to take
their nieces for wives which really wasn't much different than Cain taking one of his
sisters, or Adam taking a woman constructed with material removed from his own
body because there just weren't any other women available in their circumstances.

People were a lots more healthy in that day than now. For example: Noah lived to
be 950 (Gen 9:2) and his son Shem, thru whom Christ came, lived 600 (Gen
11:10-11) By the time of Abraham longevity had decreased quite a bit as he
survived only 175, which the Bible describes as a ripe old age. (Gen 25:7-8) And by
David's time, it had decreased to an average of 70 (Ps 90:10)

In comparison; the average longevity of an America man was around 47 in 1900.
And I'd imagine the average American man would still be dying at that age were it
not for the marvels of modern medicine.

The ancient peoples had some advantages. There was no such thing as processed
food. All their fruits, grains, and vegetables were 100% organic and usually always
fresh because they had no refrigeration. All their cattle grazed on pasture and none
were inoculated. All their water was 100% potable with no need for treatment
whether it be from rain, aquifers, creeks, rivers, or lakes. Their air and their soil
was not yet contaminated by man-made toxic materials. They had no electric
lighting so folks got to bed at a reasonable hour and awoke via circadian rhythm
rather than disturbed by an alarm clock. And without powered conveyances, a lot of
their travel was either on foot or by means of beasts. All in all; their speed of life
was quite a bit slower than a modern man's pace.

I let my past go too fast,
No time to pause.
If I could slow it all down,
Like some captain whose ship runs aground,
I could wait until the tide comes around.

Time Stand Still, RUSH, 1987
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
17) Christianity alleges that by the time of Abraham's father Terah, Shem's line
had slipped away and no longer acknowledged Noah's deity.

Josh 24:2 . .Then Joshua said to all the people: Thus said the Lord, the God of
Israel: In olden times, your forefathers-- Terah, father of Abraham and father of
Nahor --lived beyond the Euphrates and worshiped other gods.

Because of their dad's association with other gods, the two brothers grew up as
pagans until Noah's deity stepped in and broke the chain by appearing to Abram,
and instructing him to get away from his relatives' influence and leave the region of
Ur of the Chaldees. (southern Iraq)


NOTE: Up to this point, there were plenty of Hebrews at large-- a line of people fathered
by a man named Eber (Gen 10:21) --but no Jews yet; and wouldn't be until
Abraham's grandson Jacob produced them by means of Rachel's sister wife Leah.
(This is sort of a hot-button that would be wise to avoid with modern Jews as some
are sincerely convinced their all their ancient patriarchs were Jews.)

So then, what exactly defined primitive Jews. Well, the term basically pertains to
folks who recognize and/or accept the tribe of Jacob's fourth son Judah as the
source of their supreme sovereigns per Gen 49:8-10 which says:

"Judah, your brothers will praise you; your hand will be on the neck of your
enemies; your father's sons will bow down to you. You are a lion's cub, O Judah;
you return from the prey, my son. Like a lion he crouches and lies down, like a
lioness-- who dares to rouse him? The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the
ruler's staff from between his feet, until He comes to whom it belongs and the
obedience of the nations is His."

** An Hebrew word for "Jew" doesn't show up in the Bible till 2Kgs 16:6 where its
associated with a Syrian political figure named Rezin who lived sometime around
the eighth century BC. Apparently no one yet has managed to ascertain a reliable
date for Abraham.
_
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
32,646
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Basically, God created mankind, they fell into sin and God planned the path for salvation by coming to earth in the form of man, living the perfectly obedient life we could not, and dying on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Only those who have faith in Him shall have salvation and live with Him eternally.
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
18) Christianity alleges that Abraham was the rootstock of a people who became
Christ's biological ancestors. In other words; Jesus wasn't a nobody from out of
nowhere; he was generated just as naturally as everyone else.

Gen 12:1 . . The Lord had said to Abram: Leave your country, your people, and
your father's household, and go to the land I will show you.


NOTE: Abram's spelling was later changed to Abraham. (Gen 17:5)

Gen 12:2-3 . . I will make you into a great nation . . . and all peoples on earth will
be blessed through you.

Long story short: Abraham eventually produced Isaac, and he in turn produced
Jacob, who in turn produced the twelve original tribes of Israel. Of those twelve,
Judah is the guy because his became the source tribe of Israel's royalty.

Gen 49:10 . .The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from
between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the
nations is his.

Of the tribe of Judah, David's men were designated to be Israel's monarchs.

2Sam 7:8-14 . . . Now then, tell my servant David this is what The Lord Almighty
says: "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your
offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish
his kingdom. He is the one who will build a house for My name, and I will establish
the throne of his kingdom forever."

"the one" was Solomon.

1Chron 22:7-10 . . David said to Solomon: My son, this word of The Lord came to
me: "You will have a son. His name will be Solomon . . . he will be My son, and I
will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever."

So then, before we go about establishing Christ as Abraham's descendant in
whom all peoples on earth would be blessed per Gen 12:3, we must first establish
Jesus as one of David's paternal descendants, and we must also place Jesus in
Solomon's line to the throne; because Matthew's gospel places far more emphasis
upon Jesus as the Jews' ultimate political figure rather than upon him as their
ultimate national atonement.
_
 

Odë:hgöd

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
1,538
Age
80
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
~
19) Jesus' genealogy given in the gospel of Luke is sometimes appropriated to
establish his mother's connection to David, but I don't recommend that route
because the language, the grammar, and the punctuation of Luke 3:23 are much
too controversial.

Along with that: there's a serious question about the listings of Shieltiel and
Zerubbabel. In Matthew's genealogy the two men are linked to David via Solomon.
In Luke's genealogy, they're linked to David via Solomon's brother Nathan.

Their respective descendants are different too. Zerubbabel's son is listed as Abihud
in Matthew's genealogy, whereas his son is listed as Rhesa in Luke's.

It's been suggested that Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are common names so we
shouldn't be surprised to find them listed in both genealogies. However, they are
listed as father and son in both genealogies, which we cannot expect reasonable
people to accept as mere coincidence.

Unfortunately, to date there exists no consensus among the experts how best to
resolve the confusion caused by the presence of Shieltiel and Zerubbabel in both
genealogies. Were we scientific in our thinking; we'd have to consider the data
compromised; which is unfortunate because if we disregard Luke's genealogy, then
we pretty much have to disregard Matthew's too.

So the situation with Jesus' genealogies is such that I think it best to go about
establishing his family history from a different angle.
_
 
Top Bottom