The 73 canonical books of Holy Scripture.

[MoreCoffee]

Protestant usually claim 66 books in their bible.
Catholics say 73.
Greek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox say 76*.
Georgian Orthodox say 78*.
Syriac Orthodox say 78* but with 4 differences between them as Georgians.

* - according to Wikipedia.

I will stick with the 73 of the Catholic bible. So my bible is bigger than a typical Protestant bible, smaller than a bible from the Greeek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, and the Ethopian Orthodox have a larger canon (83 or so I think) which makes theirs bigger than everybody else's.

The Catholic list is

• Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.
• Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

I never liked 66 much, it is too close to 666 I reckon.

:smirk:

 

[Lamb]

Is bigger necessarily better?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Is bigger necessarily better?

Obviously 73 is just right. Perfect.

 

[Lamb]

Obviously 73 is just right. Perfect.

I dunno. The 66 God presents to me makes salvation perfectly clear

 

[pinacled]

i read 40 books from the TaNaKh and 27 from The testimony of fulfillment of the Lords promises.[ie new testament(Brit Chadashah]

The only difference ive seen comparing the TaNaKh and a king james version is the ommission of this Book from the TaNaKh
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16550

Curiously there is little spoken of these days concerning what is rendered unto the Lord and what is rendered unto caesar or pontif.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I dunno. The 66 God presents to me makes salvation perfectly clear

There's something disturbingly "beastly" about 66.

:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

Protestant usually claim 66 books in their bible.
Catholics say 73.
Greek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox say 76*.
Georgian Orthodox say 78*.
Syriac Orthodox say 78* but with 4 differences between them as Georgians.

* - according to Wikipedia.

I will stick with the 73 of the Catholic bible. So my bible is bigger than a typical Protestant bible, smaller than a bible from the Greeek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, and the Ethopian Orthodox have a larger canon (83 or so I think) which makes theirs bigger than everybody else's.

The Catholic list is

• Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.
• Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

I never liked 66 much, it is too close to 666 I reckon.

:smirk:

I suppose you accept The Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Mormon and the Quran as well...

 

[atpollard]

What about “The Davinci Code”?

 

[Lamb]

There's something disturbingly "beastly" about 66.

:smirk:

I was born in 66 (1966) so it was a pretty good year

 

[MoreCoffee]

I suppose you accept The Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Mormon and the Quran as well...

That is a very stupid supposition.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I was born in 66 (1966) so it was a pretty good year

Oh dear. I hope you were not born in June! 1966/6 eek!

:smirk:

 

[MennoSota]

That is a very stupid supposition.

As is your claim of 73 inspired books...

 

[MoreCoffee]

As is your claim of 73 inspired books...

73 books are in fact in the canon of holy scripture. "puff the magic dragon" is not. It's a lovely song by Peter, Paul, and Mary - USA performers famous in the 1960s.

 

[MennoSota]

73 books are in fact in the canon of holy scripture. "puff the magic dragon" is not. It's a lovely song by Peter, Paul, and Mary - USA performers famous in the 1960s.

Puff, George, Ringo...it's all apocryphal tales from the Roman crypt.

 

[Andrew]

What about 616?
I actually like the extra books, Bel and the Dragon is an excellent story

 

[Josiah]

Protestant usually claim 66 books in their bible.
Catholics say 73.
Greek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox say 76*.
Georgian Orthodox say 78*.
Syriac Orthodox say 78* but with 4 differences between them as Georgians.

* - according to Wikipedia.

I will stick with the 73 of the Catholic bible. So my bible is bigger than a typical Protestant bible, smaller than a bible from the Greeek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, and the Ethopian Orthodox have a larger canon (83 or so I think) which makes theirs bigger than everybody else's.

The Catholic list is

• Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.
• Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

For the past 600 years or so, the singular Roman Catholic denomination has officially had a UNIQUE Bible - one no one other agrees with; yes, with 73 books. True, for about 1000 years, most RC denomination Bibles had 74 books (including the Epistle to the Leodiceans in the NT - the often claimed book that Luther "ripped out" of the NT by not including it in his German translation) but it was not included in the Council of Florence or Council of Trent list - it's just that most Catholics didn't care and included it anyway.



The (perhaps shocking) truth is: This has NEVER been a issue. Everyone agreed with the 66 - and the books quoted and used were all in that group - so the others just didn't seem to matter much. Indeed, in my Catholic years, OCCASIONALLY there was a reading from one of them, but there were no sermons from them, no Bible studies from them, no quotes from them, no references to them, no use of them - they were for all practical purpose not in the Bible at all. The RCC never has had a problem with the additional (unofficial) books in the EOC Bible or the even more in the OOC Bibles because they don't seem to matter.


Lutherans take no official stance on these additional (pretty much unused) books. The Lutheran Confessions (ON PURPOSE) are silent on the issue of what books are and are not canonical.... although generally Lutherans follow Luther's personal advise to only use the historic 66 for the norming and formation of doctrine (permitting the others for inspirational, informational and historic use - but not as the source or norm for theology). The Lutheran confessions quote from them (more than the Catholic Catechism does) and Luther including MORE of them in his German translation than Catholics have in their post-Trent tome (Lutherans actually using MORE of them and MORE often than Catholics generally), but no Lutheran denomination has appointed it itself individually and exclusively to determine what should be excluded from the Bible (although the RCC, LDS, Anglican and Reformed churches have). The 66 are embraced ... the 28 or so deuterocanonical ones simply left "undetermined" in status. Luther regarded this as a matter for an Ecumenical Council (although the last one ended a bit before 800 AD so functionally he realized that's not going to happen).


Yeah, I'm back.


- Josiah




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[MoreCoffee]

For the past 600 years or so, the singular Roman Catholic ...

The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church has a 73 book canon and had one 600 years ago, 700 years ago, 800 years ago, and so forth until we go back 1,700 years ago when the first canon lists were authorised by the Catholic Church.
In 419 AD the council of Carthage produced a canon list of the holy scriptures, it is not the first list, but it is well documented.

Canon 24.

That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture

Item, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture.

But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows:

Genesis.
Exodus.
Leviticus.
Numbers.
Deuteronomy.
Joshua the Son of Nun.
The Judges.
Ruth.
The Kings, iv. books.
The Chronicles, ij. books.
Job.
The Psalter.
The Five books of Solomon.
The Twelve Books of the Prophets.
Isaiah.
Jeremiah.
Ezechiel.
Daniel.
Tobit.
Judith.
Esther.
Ezra, ij. books.
Macchabees, ij. books.

The New Testament.

The Gospels, iv. books.
The Acts of the Apostles, j. book.
The Epistles of Paul, xiv.
The Epistles of Peter, the Apostle, ij.
The Epistles of John the Apostle, iij.
The Epistles of James the Apostle, j.
The Epistle of Jude the Apostle, j.
The Revelation of John, j. book.​

Let this be sent to our brother and fellow bishop, Boniface, and to the other bishops of those parts, that they may confirm this canon, for these are the things which we have received from our fathers to be read in church.​

 

[Josiah]

The one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church has a 73 book canon

Wrong as your opening post admits.

Actually, only ONE singular, individual, exclusive denomination has an official 73 book Bible.... and that only since Florance at the earliest or more likely since Trent. NO other church on the planet in all of human history has agreed with the singular, unique, individual, exclusive RC Denomination on this matter. Not that most care much - especially since Catholics seem to give LESS credence to the additional 7 books than some others. Yes, you can find INDIVIDUAL persons who list exactly 73 books but that's not an official embrace (hey, Luther's Bible had 67 books in it - one yours does'nt - and a lot of Catholic tomes had 74 books in them, including the Epistle to the Leodiceans as my Catholic teachers freely admitted).


Okay, your singular, individual, exclusive denomination now has a UNIQUE Bible. Okay. We all knew that. NO other church officially agrees with your denomination on this (and many other matters), but we all knew that.



- Josiah (ain't 'ya glad I'm back?)




.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Wrong as your opening post admits.
...

I am glad that you're back. Not glad of your unreformed opinion posts, but glad to see that you have rested a little and are ready to discuss topics.

Now, back to the claim in your post. The claim is completely incorrect.

Protestant usually claim 66 books in their bible.
Catholics say 73.
Greek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox say 76*.
Georgian Orthodox say 78*.
Syriac Orthodox say 78* but with 4 differences between them as Georgians.

* - according to Wikipedia.

I will stick with the 73 of the Catholic bible. So my bible is bigger than a typical Protestant bible, smaller than a bible from the Greeek Orthodox and Slavonic Orthodox, Georgian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, and the Ethopian Orthodox have a larger canon (83 or so I think) which makes theirs bigger than everybody else's.

The Catholic list is

• Of the Old Testament: the five books of Moses, to wit, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first book of Esdras, and the second which is entitled Nehemias; Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidical Psalter, consisting of a hundred and fifty psalms; the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch; Ezechiel, Daniel; the twelve minor prophets, to wit, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggaeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of the Machabees, the first and the second.
• Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle. But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.

I never liked 66 much, it is too close to 666 I reckon.

:smirk:

 

[Josiah]

The claim is completely incorrect.

My statement of fact is undeniable.


Your claim that the whole church has always accepted exactly 73 books as canonical - no more, no less - is absurd, unhistorical and factually wrong.


There is ONE (just one) singular, individual, unique denomination that officially claims exactly 73 books (as you originally admitted) - and that officially only for the past 500 - 600 years (in spite of the fact that most Catholic Bibles had 74 books in them). NO OTHER DENOMINATION on the Planet Earth has EVER (in ANY year since the creation of the Earth) has officially claimed exactly 73 books. NO Eastern Orthodox Church does..... NO Oriential Orthodox church does..... NO Anglican church does.... NO Reformed church does..... NO Protestant church does..... NO other does. Your denomianation stands all alone, all by itself exclusively, with a grand unity of NONE on this topic, too. NO, the whole "one, holy, catholic church" does not - and NEVER HAS - agreed with your denomination on this "Exactly 73" claim. You know it. Everyone knows it. Like the LDS and a few other denominations, yours is permitted to appoint itself to determine this for it itself exclusively but it's silly, absurd and undeniably WRONG to claim that ANY other denomination has EVER agreed with your denomination on this.



- Josiah




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