Ten Commandments.

[MoreCoffee]

In the Law God gave Israel commandments. The first giving of the commandments is recorded in Exodus 20 and a second giving of them is recorded in Deuteronomy 5. Here they are, numbered in the traditional Catholic enumeration suggested by saint Augustine:

Exodus 20:

• 1 God spoke all these words. 2 He said, “I am Jehovah your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. – 3 Do not have other gods before me. – 4 Do not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven, or on the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, Jehovah your God, am a jealous God; for the sin of the fathers, when they rebel against me, I punish the sons, the grandsons and the great-grandsons; 6 but I show steadfast love until the thousandth generation for those who love me and keep my commandments.
• – 7 Do not take the name of Jehovah your God in vain for Jehovah will not leave unpunished anyone who takes his name in vain.
• – 8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 9 For six days you will labour and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath for Jehovah your God. Do not work that day, neither you, nor your son, nor you daughter nor your servants, men or women, nor your animals, nor the stranger who is staying with you. 11 For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day he rested; that is why Jehovah has blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
• – 12 Honour your father and your mother that you may have a long life in the land that Jehovah has given you.
• – 13 Do not kill.
• – 14 Do not commit adultery.
• – 15 Do not steal.
• – 16 Do not give false witness against your neighbour.
• – 17 Do not covet your neighbour's house.
• Do not covet your neighbour's wife, or his servant, man or woman, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is his.”

Deuteronomy 5:
1 Moses gathered the whole of Israel and said to them: “Listen, Israel, to the laws and norms which I teach you this day. Learn them and be careful to put them into practice. 2 Jehovah, our God, made a Covenant with us in Horeb, and his Covenant 3 was not only with our fathers, but with us as well who are all alive here today. 4 Jehovah spoke with us face to face from the midst of the fire in the mountain. 5 And I stood between Jehovah and you to transmit his word to you, since you could not go up the mountain for fear of the great fi re. These were his words:

• 6 I am Jehovah, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of slavery. 7 Do not have other gods before me. 8 Do not have idols, do not make any figure of things in the heaven or here below on the earth, or in the waters under the earth. 9 Do not kneel before them or worship them, because I, Jehovah, am your God, a jealous God who punishes the children until the third and fourth generation for the wickedness of their parents who hate me. 10 But I am merciful to the thousandth generation to those who love me and obey my commandments.
• 11 Do not take the name of Jehovah, your God, in vain because Jehovah will not leave unpunished him who takes his name in vain.
• 12 Take care to keep holy the Sabbath day, as Jehovah, your God, commands you. 13 You have six days to work and do your tasks. 14 But the seventh day is the Day of Rest in honour of Jehovah, your God. Do not do any work, you or your child, or your servant, or your ox, or your donkey, or any of your animals. Neither will the foreigner who lives in your land work. Your servant will rest just like you. 15 Remember that you were once enslaved in the land of Egypt from where Jehovah, your God, brought you out with his powerful hand and outstretched arm. For that reason, Jehovah, your God, commands you to observe the Sabbath.
• 16 Honour your father and your mother as Jehovah, your God, has commanded, and you will live long and it will be well with you in the land which Jehovah, your God, gives you.
• 17 Do not kill.
• 18 Do not commit adultery.
• 19 Do not steal.
• 20 Do not give false testimony against your neighbour.
• 21 Do not desire the wife of your neighbour.
• Do not covet the house of your neighbour, or his field, or his servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is his.

Is it possible for a Christian to dispense with any of these commandments and remain faithful to God?

 

[atpollard]

I do not worship on Saturday. Does that disqualify me from being faithful to God?

 

[atpollard]

The real question is which of the 10 Commandments can one violate while still keeping the 2 Commandments given by Jesus in the Gospels ...

[Mark 12:30-31 NIV] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

 

[MoreCoffee]

I do not worship on Saturday. Does that disqualify me from being faithful to God?

Some say that not observing the sabbath from sunset Friday until sunset Saturday does disqualify one from being obedient to the ten commandments. The people who say that are usually Seventh Day Adventist, Seventh Day Baptist, or one of the various Messianic and Jewish Roots movements. I do not agree with their views. They build them on a "scripture alone" foundation with an admixture of claims about the early Christians and their Sabbath practises.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The real question is which of the 10 Commandments can one violate while still keeping the 2 Commandments given by Jesus in the Gospels ...

[Mark 12:30-31 NIV] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' 31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Do you really think that is the real question? It sounds so foreign to the teaching of Christ and the writings of the apostles and prophets.

 

[TurtleHare]

Do you really think that is the real question? It sounds so foreign to the teaching of Christ and the writings of the apostles and prophets.

Nah, it is kinda what Lutherans teach that if you violate the first commandment you have violated all 10.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Nah, it is kinda what Lutherans teach that if you violate the first commandment you have violated all 10.

Saint Paul wrote something like that, I think, or was it saint James?

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. (James 2:10-11)

 

[JRT]

There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true if they are not the same? Exodus 34, the oldest version at about 950 BC, is from the pen of the “J” or Jahwist writer and is not one of which many have ever heard. The final commandment in this earliest version reads “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” Why, we are led to wonder, was this original set of Ten Commandments rejected or replaced? The second version Exodus 20, from about 850 BC, was from the pen of the “E” or Elohist writer, but was greatly expanded about 560 BC by a group of people called the “P” or priestly writers. Did these writers, who added so much to the entire body of the Jewish Scriptures, do so because they judged the original version to be so woefully inadequate that it required major additions and editing? Does one alter or tamper with what one believes to be “The Word of God?” The third version, Deuteronomy 5 in about 625 BC, was from the pen of the “D” or Deuteronomic writers composed somewhere between the original writing of Exodus 20 and the expansion done on that same text some 400 or so years later. For example, the version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest. Which of these versions of the Ten Commandments, we might ask, can qualify as “The Word of God?”

 

[MoreCoffee]

There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true if they are not the same? Exodus 34, the oldest version at about 950 BC, is from the pen of the “J” or Jahwist writer and is not one of which many have ever heard. The final commandment in this earliest version reads “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” Why, we are led to wonder, was this original set of Ten Commandments rejected or replaced? The second version Exodus 20, from about 850 BC, was from the pen of the “E” or Elohist writer, but was greatly expanded about 560 BC by a group of people called the “P” or priestly writers. Did these writers, who added so much to the entire body of the Jewish Scriptures, do so because they judged the original version to be so woefully inadequate that it required major additions and editing? Does one alter or tamper with what one believes to be “The Word of God?” The third version, Deuteronomy 5 in about 625 BC, was from the pen of the “D” or Deuteronomic writers composed somewhere between the original writing of Exodus 20 and the expansion done on that same text some 400 or so years later. For example, the version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest. Which of these versions of the Ten Commandments, we might ask, can qualify as “The Word of God?”

Interesting thoughts. How do we break down the ten commandments as given in Exodus 34?

Exodus 34:10-28 10 And he said, Behold, I am making a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been created in all the earth or in any nation. And all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the Lord, for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you. 11 Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

• 12 Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst. 13 You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim 14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice, 16 and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.
• 17 You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.
• 18 You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month Abib, for in the month Abib you came out from Egypt.
• 19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep. 20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.
• 21 Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
• 22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.
• 23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. 24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.
• 25 You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.
• 26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God.
• You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.

27 And the Lord said to Moses, Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.​

These commandments are so different from those in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 that one wonders how they can be reconciled - maybe there are 20 commandments?

 

[atpollard]

Do you really think that is the real question? It sounds so foreign to the teaching of Christ and the writings of the apostles and prophets.

One can obey the Ten Commnadments and still be far from doing what God requires in the Two Greatest Commnadments.

See for yourself:

The Ten Commandments written on the two tablets of stone say ...

[Exo 20:13 NASB] 13 "You shall not murder.
[Deu 5:17 NASB] 17 'You shall not murder.

Since I have never killed anyone, I have not violated this commandment ... or have I?
Jesus says ...

[Mat 5:21-26 NASB] 21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty [enough to go] into the fiery hell. 23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 "Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

So according to Moses, I am innocent of murder, but according to Jesus I am guilty of murder.

ADULTERY:
Moses ...
[Exo 20:17 NASB] 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
[Lev 18:20 NASB] 20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
[Deu 5:21 NASB] 21 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.'

Jesus ...
[Mat 5:27-30 NASB] 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Once again, I am safe under Moses and guilty according to the words of Jesus.
So let’s look at Jesus Two Great Commandments:

[Mat 22:37-40 NASB] 37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

So now let’s compare our actions to the Commandment “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Can I murder someone (Exo 20:13, Deu 5:17) and “Love them as myself”? ... No. The act of murder will violate the Second Great Commandment.
Can I be “angry” with someone, or call them a “good-for-nothing” or “fool” and “Love them as myself” (Mat 22:39)? ... No. The attitude or words will violate the Second Great Commandment. So it is possible to keep the Law of Moses to “not commit murder” and still be guilty of murder before God, but it is not possible to keep the commandment of Jesus to “Love your neighbor” and be guilty of murder before God.

Can I commit adultery (Lev 18:20) and “Love God with all my heart”? ... No. Violating the Covenant made before God will violate the Second Great Commandment. Can I look at a woman with “lust” and “Love them as myself” (Mat 22:39)? ... No. The attitude will violate the Second Great Commandment. So it is possible to keep the Law of Moses to not commit “adultery” and still be guilty of adultery before God, but it is not possible to keep the commandments of Jesus to “Love God with all my heart” and “Love your neighbor” and be guilty of adultery before God.

The Two Great Commandments, given to us by Jesus to replace the Law, written on our new hearts of flesh are more powerful and more effective that the Ten Commandments written on those cold, hard tablets of stone.

Paul understood and said the same thing this way ...

[Rom 13:9 NASB] 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

So YES, I really do think that IS the real question and a point that Jesus tried to hammer home himself. As the writer of Hebrews puts it, [Heb 8:6 NIV] But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

 

[MoreCoffee]

One can obey the Ten Commnadments and still be far from doing what God requires in the Two Greatest Commnadments.

See for yourself:

The Ten Commandments written on the two tablets of stone say ...

[Exo 20:13 NASB] 13 "You shall not murder.
[Deu 5:17 NASB] 17 'You shall not murder.

Since I have never killed anyone, I have not violated this commandment ... or have I?
Jesus says ...

[Mat 5:21-26 NASB] 21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' 22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty [enough to go] into the fiery hell. 23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. 25 "Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 "Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.

So according to Moses, I am innocent of murder, but according to Jesus I am guilty of murder.

ADULTERY:
Moses ...
[Exo 20:17 NASB] 17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
[Lev 18:20 NASB] 20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
[Deu 5:21 NASB] 21 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.'

Jesus ...
[Mat 5:27-30 NASB] 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Once again, I am safe under Moses and guilty according to the words of Jesus.
So let’s look at Jesus Two Great Commandments:

[Mat 22:37-40 NASB] 37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

So now let’s compare our actions to the Commandment “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Can I murder someone (Exo 20:13, Deu 5:17) and “Love them as myself”? ... No. The act of murder will violate the Second Great Commandment.
Can I be “angry” with someone, or call them a “good-for-nothing” or “fool” and “Love them as myself” (Mat 22:39)? ... No. The attitude or words will violate the Second Great Commandment. So it is possible to keep the Law of Moses to “not commit murder” and still be guilty of murder before God, but it is not possible to keep the commandment of Jesus to “Love your neighbor” and be guilty of murder before God.

Can I commit adultery (Lev 18:20) and “Love God with all my heart”? ... No. Violating the Covenant made before God will violate the Second Great Commandment. Can I look at a woman with “lust” and “Love them as myself” (Mat 22:39)? ... No. The attitude will violate the Second Great Commandment. So it is possible to keep the Law of Moses to not commit “adultery” and still be guilty of adultery before God, but it is not possible to keep the commandments of Jesus to “Love God with all my heart” and “Love your neighbor” and be guilty of adultery before God.

The Two Great Commandments, given to us by Jesus to replace the Law, written on our new hearts of flesh are more powerful and more effective that the Ten Commandments written on those cold, hard tablets of stone.

Paul understood and said the same thing this way ...

[Rom 13:9 NASB] 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

So YES, I really do think that IS the real question and a point that Jesus tried to hammer home himself. As the writer of Hebrews puts it, [Heb 8:6 NIV] But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

The points you've made are correct for anybody who reads the letter of the Law (the ten commandments of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, but not the ten of Exodus 34) and applies them as the hypocritical Pharisees did. For the Pharisees the letter was what mattered, like a tricky lawyer they fixated on the letter, when it suited them, and avoided the spirit of the commandments. Jesus criticised them for that fault. But the Lord gave proper place to the spirit of the Law and did not advise anybody to disobey it. Thus from the Lord's perspective the two great commandments summarised the ten and all the law and the prophets. It ought to be kept in mind that the two great commandments are found in the Law they are in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Listen, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. (Deuteronomy 6:4-5)
You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but reprove him openly, lest you have sin over him. Do not seek revenge, neither should you be mindful of the injury of your fellow citizens. You shall love your friend as yourself. I am the Lord. (Leviticus 19:17-18)​