USA State of the Union Address?

[Lamb]

Thoughts on last night's State of the Union Address?

I didn't stay up to watch it, so I'll try to watch a video later.

 

[Frankj]

A shame the Democrats didn't just try the strategy of holding their breath till they turned blue, it would have actually looked better for them than refusing to, say, stand for Iryna Zarutska's Mother to honor her and the tragic death of her daughter or the little 6 year old girl that sustained severe and life changing injuries at the hands of an illegal alien driver.

But each side will see themselves as being the righteous ones, not regarding the sanity or lack thereof expressed by themselves.

Aside from that, it should put to rest any doubts about the physical and mental fitness of Trump since he just outdid any previous president in history with the length, coherence and vigor of his speech.

But each side will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe, seeking out their leaders with itching ears as such.

 

[NewCreation435]

Thoughts on last night's State of the Union Address?

I didn't stay up to watch it, so I'll try to watch a video later.

I did not watch it, but I heard it was long.

 

[Lamb]

I watched parts of the video. I just don't understand why this has turned into a fighting match instead of being a union of the country? Why can't the Democrats just applaud the people there instead of disrespecting them? If they aren't going to stand for America now, they aren't going to stand for America at the mid-terms or after either. I'm just totally disgusted.

 

[NewCreation435]

I watched parts of the video. I just don't understand why this has turned into a fighting match instead of being a union of the country? Why can't the Democrats just applaud the people there instead of disrespecting them? If they aren't going to stand for America now, they aren't going to stand for America at the mid-terms or after either. I'm just totally disgusted.

I'm also disgusted with this administration constantly violating people's right to due process and violating their constitutional rights.
Just because a person is in the country illegally doesn't mean they still don't have rights.
It is also wrong to violate a person's right because of the color of their skin and detain them because they might look spanish or Mexican.
ICE does it all the time

 

[Lamb]

I'm also disgusted with this administration constantly violating people's right to due process and violating their constitutional rights.
Just because a person is in the country illegally doesn't mean they still don't have rights.
It is also wrong to violate a person's right because of the color of their skin and detain them because they might look spanish or Mexican.
ICE does it all the time

There were many that had court dates and violated those by not showing up, so they chose to skip their due process, right?

 

[Frankj]

There were many that had court dates and violated those by not showing up, so they chose to skip their due process, right?

I think many are arguing that they have the right to do that and we should respect that right.

 

[NewCreation435]

There were many that had court dates and violated those by not showing up, so they chose to skip their due process, right?

Yes, there are some who didn't show up for court dates. Probably because they thought they would get deported if they did show up. I'm sure many of them crossed the border illegally without any paperwork and knew they couldn't prove anything with legal documents.
That's still not justifying ignoring a person's basic civil liberties to due process. The Declaration of Independence says in its preamble

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

you notice the word all there meaning that all people have unalienable rights. That means all not just Americans and not just rich white guys. Please also note the word "equal" which means that regardless of their economic status or color of their skin or their political positions/party they are equal and nobody is above anyone else. That is simply not how this administration has been conducting themselves.

 

[Frankj]

The solution is actually pretty simple, just cut off all taxpayer aid, whether Federal State or Municipal, and let them make it on their own the same as almost all of our immigrant ancestors did.

Wonder why no one wants to do that.

 

[tango]

I read something about Senator John Fetterman (D-PA) wondering why it was so controversial to applaud points he agreed with and to stand to respect people. I forget the exact words but the gist was that he could agree with a point even if it was made by someone with an R after their name.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, there are some who didn't show up for court dates. Probably because they thought they would get deported if they did show up. I'm sure many of them crossed the border illegally without any paperwork and knew they couldn't prove anything with legal documents.
That's still not justifying ignoring a person's basic civil liberties to due process. The Declaration of Independence says in its preamble

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

you notice the word all there meaning that all people have unalienable rights. That means all not just Americans and not just rich white guys. Please also note the word "equal" which means that regardless of their economic status or color of their skin or their political positions/party they are equal and nobody is above anyone else. That is simply not how this administration has been conducting themselves.

Throwing around the term "due process" doesn't mean anything if you don't state exactly what you think should happen. Do you expect our courts to be tied up with the millions of illegal immigrants who invaded our country during the last administration? That costs Americans millions maybe even billions of dollars. Is that your wish?

 

[Frankj]

Throwing around the term "due process" doesn't mean anything if you don't state exactly what you think should happen. Do you expect our courts to be tied up with the millions of illegal immigrants who invaded our country during the last administration? That costs Americans millions maybe even billions of dollars. Is that your wish?

Due process is defined by law, not what you think it is or what you want it to be but what is in the books.

Due process for a parking ticket is not the same as due process for a felony charge and due process for migrants, illegal entry ones in particular, is defined in immigration law and carried out by the designated authorities according to how it is written.

 

[tango]

Throwing around the term "due process" doesn't mean anything if you don't state exactly what you think should happen. Do you expect our courts to be tied up with the millions of illegal immigrants who invaded our country during the last administration? That costs Americans millions maybe even billions of dollars. Is that your wish?

It's a tricky one because to determine an immigrant is illegal requires giving them fair chance to prove they are not. Simply rounding people up and sending them Somewhere Else doesn't seem helpful at all.

If someone is a legal immigrant they will have paperwork. In theory they are probably supposed to carry it with them at all times but it's typically asked for so infrequently it wouldn't be surprising if some people didn't happen to have it on their person (if I recall failing to carry a green card is considered a misdemeanour). Honestly, the only time I've ever been asked for proof of my immigration status was when I took a driving test to convert my foreign license for a local one (one time only), when I've re-entered the country following a trip abroad, when applying for a license to carry firearms (every five years), and when renewing the green card (every ten years).

If I were suspected of being illegal I can show a green card showing my photograph, date of birth, alien registration number etc. It matches federal records. It's hard to see why it would require anything more than a summary hearing, but to simply say I speak with a foreign accent and therefore need to be deported isn't a useful approach at all.

A US citizen who doesn't have a passport (and there are millions of those) might have a harder time finding documentation to prove their citizenship. If the only document that exists proving their citizenship is a birth certificate and they don't have ready access to it, I'm not sure how they could prove their status.

 

[George]

I saw like 30 seconds of it on a tv when I was out, but that was it lol.

 

[NewCreation435]

Throwing around the term "due process" doesn't mean anything if you don't state exactly what you think should happen. Do you expect our courts to be tied up with the millions of illegal immigrants who invaded our country during the last administration? That costs Americans millions maybe even billions of dollars. Is that your wish?

At a minimum, I would want those who are claiming that if they go back to their country they would face persecution or death would be granted an aslyum hearing. In the meantime, they can wait for their hearing date on Mexico's side of the border or in detention camps on our side. I don't think it is a good idea to go back to the old way of doing things like giving them a court date and then just letting them roam free in our country because as you said they don't tend to show up for court and that just rewards them for entering the country illegally.

 

[Lamb]

At a minimum, I would want those who are claiming that if they go back to their country they would face persecution or death would be granted an aslyum hearing. In the meantime, they can wait for their hearing date on Mexico's side of the border or in detention camps on our side. I don't think it is a good idea to go back to the old way of doing things like giving them a court date and then just letting them roam free in our country because as you said they don't tend to show up for court and that just rewards them for entering the country illegally.

They would all claim that, but what exactly is the truth? If they were so scared, they would have settled for any other country along the way. I don't buy it that most of them "walked" from their countries to the USA. I mean, how many of them could even walk 10 miles let alone hundreds? It was a mass invasion and if you look at the videos of who was entering, it was mostly men, not grandmas and babies, even though there were some coyotes smuggling in children to be exploited. How many children were left alone in the desert after those guys got their money?

 

[SetFree]

I'm also disgusted with this administration constantly violating people's right to due process and violating their constitutional rights.
Just because a person is in the country illegally doesn't mean they still don't have rights.
It is also wrong to violate a person's right because of the color of their skin and detain them because they might look spanish or Mexican.
ICE does it all the time

Illegal aliens have NO U.S. Constitutional rights.

Those who told them to try and use that pry bar well know many American citizens don't even know what the U.S. Constitution says.

Go to Mexico as a foreigner without legal entry, same thing. Same thing in all nations outside the U.S.

 

[SetFree]

One of the guys I used to work with was a part time jailer. He said they had a Hispanic guy caught driving without a U.S. license. The guy's family and friends came to bail him out. The jailer watched and noticed one of the others was driving, so he decided to wait until the guy behind the car wheel, and went out and asked to see his driver's license. The Hispanic guy said he was a Mexican, that he didn't need no license. So off to jail he went.

So U.S. citizens are supposed to just grin and bear it? even when an illegal alien driving a commercial semi truck without license causes a road accident and disfigures a little girl?

 

[SetFree]

I was in the U.S. military stationed in Spain. In our initial military briefing when our airplane landed, we handed over our U.S. Government red passports to the Spaniards who kept them until we rotated back to the States. By that if we got into any trouble while in Spain, they could hold us, like prisoners.

In our briefing we were warned about dealing with the Spanish public, as we didn't have diplomatic immunity. We were told there was a G.I. that got drunk in Madrid and caused a car accident that killed a Spanish citizen. He was in their Spanish prison.

When I left Spain, finished my tour there, that G.I. was still in Spanish jail three and a half years later. U.S. ambassadors to Spain were still trying to get him out of Spain's prison.

Anyone doubting how much harsher foreign countries outside the U.S. are on foreigners should watch the movie Midnight Express, a true story about Bill Hayes who got caught smuggling drugs in Turkey. He was going to be in prison for life, until somehow he escaped.

 

[tango]

One of the guys I used to work with was a part time jailer. He said they had a Hispanic guy caught driving without a U.S. license. The guy's family and friends came to bail him out. The jailer watched and noticed one of the others was driving, so he decided to wait until the guy behind the car wheel, and went out and asked to see his driver's license. The Hispanic guy said he was a Mexican, that he didn't need no license. So off to jail he went.

So U.S. citizens are supposed to just grin and bear it? even when an illegal alien driving a commercial semi truck without license causes a road accident and disfigures a little girl?

One question is how much truth there is to the assertion that "no license is required"

When I arrived in the US my foreign license was valid for a year. It made for some interesting potential situations when I went to take my local driving test because among the documents I needed to provide was the driving license of the person accompanying me. Since I already had a valid foreign license I techically didn't need that.

The driving test in the UK is far more difficult than the local test here. It's possible (even likely?) that a Mexican had a Mexican driving license. Is a Mexican driving license valid in the US? Does Mexico require drivers to carry their license with them (the UK does not)?