Spirit of GOD through the Holy Spirit within the OT.

[popsthebuilder]

It is written that Jesus left earth and in doing so, would sent the Holy Spirit to believers in Him.

I have found that some people think the Holy Spirit wasn't given By GOD, to the faithful, prior to the physical manifestation of Jesus. I know this isn't the case, but would like to discuss the the Holy Spirit working within people within the Old Testament.

Cam anyone think of a case that the Spirit of GOD came upon man prior to Jesus?

thank any who participate in advance.

I will try to stay on topic and remain civil; I ask that we all do such.

peace

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[psalms 91]

David, Saul, all the prophets, and that is not all but it is a start for you

 

[atpollard]

[Jdg 3:10 NASB] 10 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel. When he went out to war, the LORD gave Cushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand, so that he prevailed over Cushan-rishathaim.
[Jdg 6:34 NASB] 34 So the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon; and he blew a trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called together to follow him.
[Jdg 11:29 NASB] 29 Now the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, so that he passed through Gilead and Manasseh; then he passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he went on to the sons of Ammon.
[Jdg 13:25 NASB] 25 And the Spirit of the LORD began to stir him in Mahaneh-dan, between Zorah and Eshtaol.
[Jdg 14:6, 19 NASB] 6 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him mightily, so that he tore him as one tears a young goat though he had nothing in his hand; but he did not tell his father or mother what he had done. ... 19 Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon him mightily, and he went down to Ashkelon and killed thirty of them and took their spoil and gave the changes of clothes to those who told the riddle. And his anger burned, and he went up to his father's house.
[Jdg 15:14 NASB] 14 When he came to Lehi, the Philistines shouted as they met him. And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him mightily so that the ropes that were on his arms were as flax that is burned with fire, and his bonds dropped from his hands.
[1Sa 10:6 NASB] 6 "Then the Spirit of the LORD will come upon you mightily, and you shall prophesy with them and be changed into another man.
[1Sa 16:13-14 NASB] 13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah. 14 Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.
[2Sa 23:2 NASB] 2 "The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue.
[2Ch 20:14 NASB] 14 Then in the midst of the assembly the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, the Levite of the sons of Asaph;
[Isa 11:2 NASB] 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and strength, The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
[Isa 61:1 NASB] 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives And freedom to prisoners;
[Eze 11:5 NASB] 5 Then the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and He said to me, "Say, 'Thus says the LORD, "So you think, house of Israel, for I know your thoughts.
[Mic 3:8 NASB] 8 On the other hand I am filled with power-- With the Spirit of the LORD-- And with justice and courage To make known to Jacob his rebellious act, Even to Israel his sin.

 

[Pedrito]

I would present for consideration the thought that the Holy Spirit has two distinct modes of operation:
- An external function of empowerment, emotional support, etc., available throughout the ages;
- An internal dwelling, evident only in true believers, and commencing only after Jesus' death and resurrection.

If that is indeed so, it could well help clarify a number of questions.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I would present for consideration the thought that the Holy Spirit has two distinct modes of operation:
- An external function of empowerment, emotional support, etc., available throughout the ages;
- An internal dwelling, evident only in true believers, and commencing only after Jesus' death and resurrection.

If that is indeed so, it could well help clarify a number of questions.

So you are saying that perhaps the Holy Spirit worked outwardly for the sakes of men and will of GOD, prior to Jesus, but now works within the believer?



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[psalms 91]

That is exactlt how it worked, the spirit came down upon in the Old and now dwells in us in the New

 

[popsthebuilder]

That is exactlt how it worked, the spirit came down upon in the Old and now dwells in us in the New

But do you think that the Spirit didn't dwell or work inwardly on any prior to Jesus?

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[psalms 91]

I cant recall any mentioon of that in the OLd

 

[popsthebuilder]

Ezekiel 36: 25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Job 27: 2. As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul; 3. All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; 4. My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit. 5. God forbid that I should justify you: till I die I will not remove mine integrity from me. 6. My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Exodus 35: 31. And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship; 34. And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. 35. Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.

Ezekiel 11: 19. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

1 Samuel 19: 20. And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.

Ezekiel 37: 13. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14. And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. 15. The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16. Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17. And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 19. Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

(Does the word "upon" necessarily mean outside of?)

peace

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[Pedrito]

In Post #9, popsthebuilder presented some Sciptures.

I will address those one by one.

Ezekiel 36:25-28

The context is given in Verses 16-24. God will bring the scattered people of Israel back into the land of Israel. God will do it. At a time that was then, and still is now, future. At that time, a new heart will be given to all of them. God's spirit will be within them, and (expressed in terminology they understood at that time), they will all be fully obedient. That aligns with Jeremiah 31:27-34 – note that the New Covenant will be established with Israel at that time. That points to both the restoration of Israel and to the future time generally termed "the Millennium", both of which some churches deny.

Job 27:2 ... All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils...

It is a matter of questionable translation, I suggest. Both of those Hebrew words have broad meaning. One meaning shared by both is “breath”. Is it more reasonable to conclude that Job meant the breath of God was in his nostrils (as in Genesis 2:7: Then the LORD God formed the man out of the dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.), or that the spirit of God was hovering in his nostrils, but going no further? Some translators (some translations) indicate the former.

Exodus 35:31

That simply reveals an overwhelming infilling with specific abilities. It has nothing to do with the indwelling of members of the true Church. To members of the true Church, the apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?.

Ezekiel 11:19

The context is found in Ezekiel 11:14-18 and Ezekiel 11:20. This simply confirms the comments made on the Ezekiel reference above. Israel will be restored at some future time, and conditions will then change.

1 Samuel 19:20

Once again, we see specific empowerment, not indwelling.

Ezekiel 37:13-28

Once again we see a future time referred to.

(As an extra thought, would And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14. And shall put my breath in you, and ye shall live (for instance) be a sensible translation?)

Genesis 41:38

This is referring to the power emanating from the individual, not the indwelling “spirit of Christ”.

We could also consider Numbers 27:18, Daniel 4:8, Daniel 4:18, Daniel 5:11, Daniel 5:14, Daniel 6:3.

We could also look at Isaiah 61:1-3 and Luke 4:18-19. That indicates that the same spirit from God gave both the prophet Isaiah in ancient times and the Messiah when He walked the Earth, the specific powers that each had.

 

[Pedrito]

Psalms 91 in Post #6:

That is exactly how it worked, the spirit came down upon in the Old and now dwells in us in the New

popsthebuilder in Post #7:

But do you think that the Spirit didn't dwell or work inwardly on any prior to Jesus?

The Holy Spirit indwells only the Spirit-begotten. See 1 Peter 1:3 and 1 John 5:18. There was no indication or understanding of that condition existing in Old Testament times (i.e. before Jesus' atoning death and His raising from death by God.)

The special empowerment of the Holy Spirit was also evidenced in the New Testament. Jesus had it. The disciples had it (as disciples). The apostles had it, as did those on whom the apostles laid hands.

The Scripture indicates that the ability for a person to pass that special empowerment on to others, was confined to the apostles themselves. (Are Readers aware of where and how that is revealed?) That situation was confirmed by historical observation.

What remains now is the indwelling of the Spirit within true believers (in whatever way that term should be defined).

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(God may choose to empower specific individuals directly in this day and age (as well as and as distinct from indwelling them), but if He endows someone with physical healing power (for instance) then everyone who comes to that person for healing will be healed without exception. Just as in Jesus’ and Apostolic times. Any failure to heal would tend to bring the source of that power into question.)