- Joined
- Jun 12, 2015
- Messages
- 13,927
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
What is the Law?
The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.
Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"
Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."
Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."
First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"
Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."
Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."
First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."
There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT - and still more in the NT. The Law is not "thou shalt try" or "Be better than the idiot bozo next door." It's be equal to God in morality, love and holiness. There's NOTHING in Scripture that says, "If you didn't mean to sin, ergo you didn't." There's NOTHING in Scripture about "If you don't feel remorse for your sin ERGO you never sinned." There's NOTHING in Scripture that says, "But those under the age of X cannot sin cuz they are equal to God" or "But those under the age of X aren't accountable for their sins."
What does the Law mandate?
Essentially, that our character be identical to His.
Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."
1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."
John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."
Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."
First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."
Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."
What is "Sin"?
"Sin" literally means "to miss the mark."
In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."
Sin = "Falling short" "Missing the mark"
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, missing the mark."
What is the consequence of sin?
Romans 6:23 "For the result of sin is death."
Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."
Isaiah 59:2 "Your sin has made separation between you and God."
Galatians 6:7-8 "Whatever a person sows, such will he reap"
Galatians 5:19-21 "Those who do such things will not gain the kingdom of God"
Obviously, non-homo sapiens die too but the Bible states that for humans anyway, this is a direct result of SIN. So, if a person dies obviously they had sin. Since people can die even before they are born, well.....
What are the functions of the Law?
1. Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own secular laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all.
The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed. We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.
2. Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides")
The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"
BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.
What are the two types of sin?
Original Sin
Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"
Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."
Romans 5:12 "Sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people for have sin."
Ephesians 4:22, "Put off the old man which corrupts."
Ephesians 2:3, "We all were by our very nature objects of God's wrath."
Ephesians 2:1 "You were dead in your sins."
Romans 8:7 "The sinful mind is hostile to God, it does not submit to God Law because it cannot do so."
"Original sin" is a spiritual disease. It is universal. Let's say I have the disease of a cold. And thus, I likely (at least at times) have symptoms of that - coughing, sneezing, runny nose, sore throat. Now, does the coughing result in me having a cold? No, it's the cold that (may) result in the cough. "Original sin" (usually spoken of in Scripture by the singular "sin") is the disease, the spiritual defeat that humanity got at the Fall. If I shoot my neighbor, the "problem" is not limited to the microsecond when I pulled the trigger.... there is a HISTORY here, chain of things, that goes all the way back to my heart, my nature and how it sought to hurt and hate. "Original sin" is that heart problem, that spiritual disease. But the disease not only can lead to symptoms (read the next section) but it also results in our spiritual DEATH and being hostile to God and our inability to believe in God.
Actualized Sin
Matthew 7:17 "A bad tree bears bad fruit" (note, it's not the other way around.... something BAD exists, and ERGO bad fruit exists)
Galatians 5:19 "The acts of our SINFUL NATURE are......" (Ditto)
Matthew 15:19 "Out of the sinful heart come ....."
"Actual Sin" is the symptoms of the disease. If I have that cold, I may well have symptoms of it. The symptoms may vary... they may be severe or slight.... I may be able to control some and perhaps not others.... I may have times when there are no symptoms at all... but I still have the disease, the sickness. The "evil inclination of the heart" (as Scripture puts it) - the disease ("Original Sin") may lead me to shoot my neighbor (the actualized sin) - the symptom.
By the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, Christians have a rich advantage in controlling the symptoms, but Paul insists that the "old Adam" still exists in us.
- Josiah
[PS This ain't no copy/paste.... I wrote this]
.
The Law is the will of God - flowing from His absolute perfection and justice. It is, in essence, that we be as He is - not in terms of essence but character.
Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"
Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."
Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."
First John 3:4, "Sin is lawlessness"
Romans 3:12, "There is no one who does good, not even one."
Mark 10:18, "There is none who is good but God exclusively."
First John 1:10, "If we claim we have no sin, we make God a liar and His word is not in us."
There are at least 613 laws specifically written just in the Old Testament. We think often of the Ten Commandments but actually there are many, many more just in the OT - and still more in the NT. The Law is not "thou shalt try" or "Be better than the idiot bozo next door." It's be equal to God in morality, love and holiness. There's NOTHING in Scripture that says, "If you didn't mean to sin, ergo you didn't." There's NOTHING in Scripture about "If you don't feel remorse for your sin ERGO you never sinned." There's NOTHING in Scripture that says, "But those under the age of X cannot sin cuz they are equal to God" or "But those under the age of X aren't accountable for their sins."
What does the Law mandate?
Essentially, that our character be identical to His.
Matthew 5:48, "You must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."
1 Peter 1:16, "You must be holy even as God in heaven is holy."
John 15:12, "Love all people just as I (Jesus) first loved you."
Ephesians 4:32, "forgiving one another, just as God in Christ first forgave you."
First John 2:6, "Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did."
Philippians 2:5, "You must have the same attitude that Christ did."
What is "Sin"?
"Sin" literally means "to miss the mark."
In ancient Greece, if an archer missed the target, the therefore "sinned" because he missed the mark, missed the target. The Bible says "ALL fall short." IF you have absolutely, perfectly, divinely, 24/7 "hit" all the targets above, then you are obedient and free of sin. Otherwise...... Well, the Bible would be correct and not lying when it says that "NO ONE is righteous, no, not even one." "For ALL fall short." "NO ONE is good." "If you claim to have no sin (you hit the mark), then you lie and call God a liar."
Sin = "Falling short" "Missing the mark"
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, missing the mark."
What is the consequence of sin?
Romans 6:23 "For the result of sin is death."
Romans 5:12, "Sin entered the world through one man's sin, and death through sin, and therefore death came to all men for all have sinned."
Isaiah 59:2 "Your sin has made separation between you and God."
Galatians 6:7-8 "Whatever a person sows, such will he reap"
Galatians 5:19-21 "Those who do such things will not gain the kingdom of God"
Obviously, non-homo sapiens die too but the Bible states that for humans anyway, this is a direct result of SIN. So, if a person dies obviously they had sin. Since people can die even before they are born, well.....
What are the functions of the Law?
1. Civil - Our relationships in this fallen world. This was not given until around 1400 BC when the first Law was given to Moses on Mount Sinai, with a purpose of GUIDING peoples' relationships. This is very much like our own secular laws - they govern relationships. Civil law does not get us into heaven, it helps us get along with others, it helps our society work better.... if everyone kept the law, this would be a nicer place in which to live and die (and eventually go to hell). This applies just as much to non-Christians as to Christians - it applies to all.
The Law cannot save - and in this first use, it's not remotely its intention. Now.... true..... IF we kept all the law, we'd go to heaven (because we would not NEED God or Christ or mercy or forgiveness or salvation or justification or the Cross or the Blood - we'd not need the Gospel - because we'd essentially be God: divinely perfect, divinely holy, divinely loving..... totally, absolutely..... 100%....... 24/7...... but then in that case, we'd not need the civil law because we'd be perfect - in nature, in being, in attitude, in thought, in word, in deed. We can NEVER achieve the Law (and we don't). Like Paul, we must confess that we are "CHIEF OF SINNERS" and that we are not - not - perfect as God demands.... but we CAN press on toward that. Why? Because Jesus was a joke and Christianity is wrong - we gotta save ourselves? WE save SELF via the Law - by being absolutely 100% perfect just as God is perfect? Nope. We press on toward that because our life and our world would be a whole lot better off. And because it pleases God whom we love.
2. Theological - Our relationship to God. This is to drive us to our knees, to drive us to despair, to accuse us, to drive us to God's MERCY, God's HEART, God's FORGIVENESS..... to reveal the need for a Savior, a Cross. We CANNOT and ARE NOT what God intends and commands. That NO ONE is righteous..... NO ONE is good..... every other religion on the planet is fundamentally wrong because we cannot clean up our act and become what God mandates: absolutely perfect, absolutely holy, absolutely loving.... if anyone CLAIMS to be without sin (to always hit the mark), well.... to be blunt..... they LIE and DECEIVE themselves (but no one else - least of all God!). We are SINNERS! We MISS THE MARK! We are FALLEN! We need SALVATION, MERCY, JUSTIFICATION... IF we look to the LAW as the tool of salvation, ALL that happens is that we get slapped down - completely, totally, every time. (Note: THIS is why people want to water down the law SO MUCH as to make it unrecognizable, insulting God and the Law - all to make it so that we can boast "but I keep the Law - I don't need no God, no Christ, no Cross, no Blood, no mercy - I got ME!!!" All as an enemy of Christ, a destroyer of the Gospel, all in an attempt to substitute the theology of Judaism, Islam and Bhakti Hinduism in place of Christianity - to promote THEIR soteriology which is "Self saves self although because of the TIME and HELP which God provides")
The theological use is to ask ourselves, "Am I all that God commands?" The only reasonable answer is: "NO!" And thus to flee to the mercy seat of God, the heart of God..... He who says "Yes" the Bible specifically says is a "fool" and is a "liar"
BOTH of these functions continue after justification..... we are STILL called to be absolutely, divinely PERFECT, we are still called to live civilly in society; indeed Christians have unique commands: to love EXACTLY as Christ did, to LIVE exactly as Christ did, to make disciples of all 7.3 billion people, etc. The Law doesn't disappear or get watered down to nothing (as some Christians insist) when we are justified... but it also has nothing to do with our justification just because we are justified.
What are the two types of sin?
Original Sin
Psalm 51:5 "I was sinful at birth"
Genesis 8:21, "Every inclination of man's heart is evil from childhood."
Romans 5:12 "Sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people for have sin."
Ephesians 4:22, "Put off the old man which corrupts."
Ephesians 2:3, "We all were by our very nature objects of God's wrath."
Ephesians 2:1 "You were dead in your sins."
Romans 8:7 "The sinful mind is hostile to God, it does not submit to God Law because it cannot do so."
"Original sin" is a spiritual disease. It is universal. Let's say I have the disease of a cold. And thus, I likely (at least at times) have symptoms of that - coughing, sneezing, runny nose, sore throat. Now, does the coughing result in me having a cold? No, it's the cold that (may) result in the cough. "Original sin" (usually spoken of in Scripture by the singular "sin") is the disease, the spiritual defeat that humanity got at the Fall. If I shoot my neighbor, the "problem" is not limited to the microsecond when I pulled the trigger.... there is a HISTORY here, chain of things, that goes all the way back to my heart, my nature and how it sought to hurt and hate. "Original sin" is that heart problem, that spiritual disease. But the disease not only can lead to symptoms (read the next section) but it also results in our spiritual DEATH and being hostile to God and our inability to believe in God.
Actualized Sin
Matthew 7:17 "A bad tree bears bad fruit" (note, it's not the other way around.... something BAD exists, and ERGO bad fruit exists)
Galatians 5:19 "The acts of our SINFUL NATURE are......" (Ditto)
Matthew 15:19 "Out of the sinful heart come ....."
"Actual Sin" is the symptoms of the disease. If I have that cold, I may well have symptoms of it. The symptoms may vary... they may be severe or slight.... I may be able to control some and perhaps not others.... I may have times when there are no symptoms at all... but I still have the disease, the sickness. The "evil inclination of the heart" (as Scripture puts it) - the disease ("Original Sin") may lead me to shoot my neighbor (the actualized sin) - the symptom.
By the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, Christians have a rich advantage in controlling the symptoms, but Paul insists that the "old Adam" still exists in us.
- Josiah
[PS This ain't no copy/paste.... I wrote this]
.
Last edited:
