- Joined
- Jun 12, 2015
- Messages
- 13,927
- Gender
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- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
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I have a Ph.D. in physics. My older sister has a Ph.D. in biology. We both accept science and we both accept the Bible as inerrant. I'm Lutheran, she's Catholic. We are both strong, active Christians. She still works as a scientist, I did but no longer do.
In some ways, Science and Christianity are focused on VERY different things with VERY different objectives. They need not be joined at the hip. They need not be placed in opposition to one another.
Science is a HUMAN effort to understand the physical (as opposed to spiritual) world around us. Scientists attempt to develop theories to answer physical questions: Why is there air? What is a cloud? Why is the Earth round? What happens if you kick a bull? Practical, earthly, THIS LIFE, kind of questions. Some purely matters of curiosity (is there life on Mars?), some very practical (How to I get cooper out of the ore?). As one who did science for several years (I'm now a businessman), I can tell you that while the study of Science SHOULD (and yeah, sometimes does) yield profound humility and the awareness of how dumb we are and how little we know, like most human endeavors, it often leads to pride, big claims and shouts of how smart self is and sure our theories are (and of course, science is driven by GRANTS and you only get free money IF you boast of how smart and certain you are). Science evolves (constantly) because knowledge evolves AND (just as important) philosophy evolves. It's ever-changing.
Religion has to do with RELATIONSHIPS - with the Divine, with other people, and ultimately with the whole of creation (the physical world around us). The focus is not how to get cooper out of the ore but how to live in the reality of these relationships. What makes such "religion" is that it embraces not JUST people/physics but also the Divine, it embraces the SUPER-natural and not ONLY natural. Some would argue religion too is a human effort, an ever-evolving effort, that involves both "theoretical" (the Trinity?) and practical (authority of the Bible). But Christianity (like all Western religions) holds that it is divinely revealed, not a produce of our brains but of God's revelation... and thus we accept it as True. As such, to the extent that is affirmed, Christian teaching tend to be quite stable.
There CAN be times when they MAY seem to be in conflict. Some Scriptures may be seen as teaching the Earth is square, flat and very small. And many Christians held to just that ("the Bible says so!"). Scripture may be seen as teaching the entire planet was covered by water in a big flood, and some Christians hold to just that. Current science disagrees with both of those scientific positions (and I don't predict that will change). I see 3 options:
1. The Bible is wrong (at least when it conflicts with current science).
2. Science is wrong (or at least when it is variant with the Bible; correct otherwise).
3. Both are potentially right and wrong IN THEIR OWN CONCERN.
Let's take that classic case of the Bible and a small, square, flat Planet Earth... Funny, because since those astronauts took that picture of the Planet from our Moon, you don't find too many Christians shouting about how Science is wrong cuz the Bible says the Planet is FLAT and SQUARE. Christians arguing for a flat Earth kida disappeared after that picture was published. They insist (now!) that those verses aren't addressing astrophysics or geology but RELIGION. And you find Christians suddenly admitting that Hebrew does not have a word for our planet ("earth" = dirt, the ground, our land) and that there is a RELIGION point, not a SCIENCE point. And an honest astrophysicist (if you can find one, lol) will admit that just because he currently believes that the Big Bang happened does NOT mean ergo God did not create the universe, the MOST he/she can say is that if GOD did, it currently SEEMS God used this process. The Bible doesn't address the HOW (God just willed it), Science doesn't address the WHY or WHO. Maybe.... as we read God's Word to us.... maybe the point is not to provide us with a biology and geology textbook but to reveal Himself to us - His will, His heart (Law and Gospel)? To address RELIGION and not science? That's a question....
Now, as BOTH a Christian and a Scientist, who doesn't demand that either echos the other, there can be problems. The Bible makes a RELIGIOUS "issue" out of the Seventh Day of Creation (the Account in Genesis 1 rather than Genesis 2).... if there was no literal "Seventh DAY" then we have a problem,,, or so it seems. And while evolution COULD be seen simply as how God created our species - the special creation, his "chosen" - similarly to how we can see the Big Bang as how God brought this physical reality into existence....but it SEEMS we then have a problem with ADAM...the Bible makes an issue of him as a singular, real, literal person (even though his name only means "man"). I'm not quick to dismiss those (RARE!) cases where we do seem to have a conflict between science and religion.... and I'm not quick to just automatically dismiss one or the other. Rather, I simply admit I don't know. I don't allow my acknowledgement that there are a handful of "problems" (in both religion AND science!) to cause me to toss out the whole enchilada, the proverbial baby with the bathwater. I simply acknowledge.... I am a humble man with a puny brain and a very, very, very limited knowledge and intelligence - I don't have all the answers (heck, I may not have any answers). But I continue to seek.... in every realm.... TRUTH is not the enemy, neither God or science is opposed to truth.
But I don't look to science for religion and I don't look to religion for science. I don't look to Religion for how to green up my lawn... and I don't look to Science to tell me the value of my children or my relationship to God. While I see the limitations in BOTH ... while I acknowledge a FEW problems in embracing both.... I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I accept my limitations are perhaps where the problem lies. Luther "Humility is the basic of all good theology." I'd say, it is for ALL seeking of truth.
My half cent....
- Josiah
,
I have a Ph.D. in physics. My older sister has a Ph.D. in biology. We both accept science and we both accept the Bible as inerrant. I'm Lutheran, she's Catholic. We are both strong, active Christians. She still works as a scientist, I did but no longer do.
In some ways, Science and Christianity are focused on VERY different things with VERY different objectives. They need not be joined at the hip. They need not be placed in opposition to one another.
Science is a HUMAN effort to understand the physical (as opposed to spiritual) world around us. Scientists attempt to develop theories to answer physical questions: Why is there air? What is a cloud? Why is the Earth round? What happens if you kick a bull? Practical, earthly, THIS LIFE, kind of questions. Some purely matters of curiosity (is there life on Mars?), some very practical (How to I get cooper out of the ore?). As one who did science for several years (I'm now a businessman), I can tell you that while the study of Science SHOULD (and yeah, sometimes does) yield profound humility and the awareness of how dumb we are and how little we know, like most human endeavors, it often leads to pride, big claims and shouts of how smart self is and sure our theories are (and of course, science is driven by GRANTS and you only get free money IF you boast of how smart and certain you are). Science evolves (constantly) because knowledge evolves AND (just as important) philosophy evolves. It's ever-changing.
Religion has to do with RELATIONSHIPS - with the Divine, with other people, and ultimately with the whole of creation (the physical world around us). The focus is not how to get cooper out of the ore but how to live in the reality of these relationships. What makes such "religion" is that it embraces not JUST people/physics but also the Divine, it embraces the SUPER-natural and not ONLY natural. Some would argue religion too is a human effort, an ever-evolving effort, that involves both "theoretical" (the Trinity?) and practical (authority of the Bible). But Christianity (like all Western religions) holds that it is divinely revealed, not a produce of our brains but of God's revelation... and thus we accept it as True. As such, to the extent that is affirmed, Christian teaching tend to be quite stable.
There CAN be times when they MAY seem to be in conflict. Some Scriptures may be seen as teaching the Earth is square, flat and very small. And many Christians held to just that ("the Bible says so!"). Scripture may be seen as teaching the entire planet was covered by water in a big flood, and some Christians hold to just that. Current science disagrees with both of those scientific positions (and I don't predict that will change). I see 3 options:
1. The Bible is wrong (at least when it conflicts with current science).
2. Science is wrong (or at least when it is variant with the Bible; correct otherwise).
3. Both are potentially right and wrong IN THEIR OWN CONCERN.
Let's take that classic case of the Bible and a small, square, flat Planet Earth... Funny, because since those astronauts took that picture of the Planet from our Moon, you don't find too many Christians shouting about how Science is wrong cuz the Bible says the Planet is FLAT and SQUARE. Christians arguing for a flat Earth kida disappeared after that picture was published. They insist (now!) that those verses aren't addressing astrophysics or geology but RELIGION. And you find Christians suddenly admitting that Hebrew does not have a word for our planet ("earth" = dirt, the ground, our land) and that there is a RELIGION point, not a SCIENCE point. And an honest astrophysicist (if you can find one, lol) will admit that just because he currently believes that the Big Bang happened does NOT mean ergo God did not create the universe, the MOST he/she can say is that if GOD did, it currently SEEMS God used this process. The Bible doesn't address the HOW (God just willed it), Science doesn't address the WHY or WHO. Maybe.... as we read God's Word to us.... maybe the point is not to provide us with a biology and geology textbook but to reveal Himself to us - His will, His heart (Law and Gospel)? To address RELIGION and not science? That's a question....
Now, as BOTH a Christian and a Scientist, who doesn't demand that either echos the other, there can be problems. The Bible makes a RELIGIOUS "issue" out of the Seventh Day of Creation (the Account in Genesis 1 rather than Genesis 2).... if there was no literal "Seventh DAY" then we have a problem,,, or so it seems. And while evolution COULD be seen simply as how God created our species - the special creation, his "chosen" - similarly to how we can see the Big Bang as how God brought this physical reality into existence....but it SEEMS we then have a problem with ADAM...the Bible makes an issue of him as a singular, real, literal person (even though his name only means "man"). I'm not quick to dismiss those (RARE!) cases where we do seem to have a conflict between science and religion.... and I'm not quick to just automatically dismiss one or the other. Rather, I simply admit I don't know. I don't allow my acknowledgement that there are a handful of "problems" (in both religion AND science!) to cause me to toss out the whole enchilada, the proverbial baby with the bathwater. I simply acknowledge.... I am a humble man with a puny brain and a very, very, very limited knowledge and intelligence - I don't have all the answers (heck, I may not have any answers). But I continue to seek.... in every realm.... TRUTH is not the enemy, neither God or science is opposed to truth.
But I don't look to science for religion and I don't look to religion for science. I don't look to Religion for how to green up my lawn... and I don't look to Science to tell me the value of my children or my relationship to God. While I see the limitations in BOTH ... while I acknowledge a FEW problems in embracing both.... I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I accept my limitations are perhaps where the problem lies. Luther "Humility is the basic of all good theology." I'd say, it is for ALL seeking of truth.
My half cent....
- Josiah
,
