Saved from sins and their penalty.

[MoreCoffee]

There's a thread that asks "saved from what?" but it fails to explain what is in mind. It may be that the thread is searching for what things a person may be saved from; for example saved from poverty, sickness, death, a bad decision, or condemnation by God to eternal punishment. This thread on the other hand is more specific. Can a person know with absolute certainty that they are saved from their sins and the penalty for their sins and thus from condemnation by God in the last judgement?

If you believe that they can then on what foundation do you think their absolute certainty is built upon? Please cite or quote relevant passages from holy scripture if you think they contribute to your view or form its foundations.

If you respond with scripture passages but offer no comment then do not expect anybody to reply. All who are participating in this thread have bibles and know what is in them so merely quoting a passage tells us very little about what you, the person responding in this thread, think and believe regarding the meaning and application of the passage(s) that you quote.

 

[TurtleHare]

Ephesians 2 New Life Version (NLV)
God Saved Us from Sin

"2 At one time you were dead because of your sins. 2 You followed the sinful ways of the world and obeyed the leader of the power of darkness. He is the devil who is now working in the people who do not obey God. 3 At one time all of us lived to please our old selves. We gave in to what our bodies and minds wanted. We were sinful from birth like all other people and would suffer from the anger of God.

4 But God had so much loving-kindness. He loved us with such a great love. 5 Even when we were dead because of our sins, He made us alive by what Christ did for us. You have been saved from the punishment of sin by His loving-favor. 6 God raised us up from death when He raised up Christ Jesus. He has given us a place with Christ in the heavens. 7 He did this to show us through all the time to come the great riches of His loving-favor. He has shown us His kindness through Christ Jesus.

8 For by His loving-favor you have been saved from the punishment of sin through faith. It is not by anything you have done. It is a gift of God. 9 It is not given to you because you worked for it. If you could work for it, you would be proud. 10 We are His work. He has made us to belong to Christ Jesus so we can work for Him. He planned that we should do this."

We are saved by sin as shown above but it also shows that it's not by anything we've done which some people on this site hold as their theology.

 

[Josiah]

There's a thread that asks "saved from what?" but it fails to explain what is in mind. It may be that the thread is searching for what things a person may be saved from; for example saved from poverty, sickness, death, a bad decision, or condemnation by God to eternal punishment. This thread on the other hand is more specific. Can a person know with absolute certainty that they are saved from their sins and the penalty for their sins and thus from condemnation by God in the last judgement?

If you believe that they can then on what foundation do you think their absolute certainty is built upon? Please cite or quote relevant passages from holy scripture if you think they contribute to your view or form its foundations.

If you respond with scripture passages but offer no comment then do not expect anybody to reply. All who are participating in this thread have bibles and know what is in them so merely quoting a passage tells us very little about what you, the person responding in this thread, think and believe regarding the meaning and application of the passage(s) that you quote.

Depends what mean by "know with certainty." As a scientist, I might add that I can't even know I exist - or you - or that reality is real (rather than a thought..... or even a delusion). But, as a scientist, I tend to be less philosophical..... Faith is the ASSURANCE of things unproven - maybe a different way of looking at certainty (but avoiding relativism).....

I look at it two ways: I have a choice - I can look in the mirror or I can look at the Cross. When I look in the mirror, I see the sinner. I see my fault - my terrible, horrible, own fault. I see one who deserves, merits nothing but hell. I'm certain of that but I'm not real pleased with that. When I look to the Cross (and empty Tomb), I see the Savior. I see God's mercy, God's forgiveness, God's justification. And I'm trusting in HIS heart, HIS actions. That's all at least equally really and I'm at least equally certain. In God I trust. I me, I lament.

IMO, the Bible says, "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not parish but has everlasting life." "He saved us not becauses of deeds done by us but by virtue of His own mercy." "You are saved through faith - and this is not your doing but rather it is the gift of God." Now, true.... the SAVED are called to great things: perfect righteousness, absolute divine holiness, to love ALL THE WORLD to exactly the same degree that Jesus loved on the Cross, to make disciples of 7.2 billion people..... some big things! But I don't think our justification is accomplished by this and so my "assurance" does not rest in me accomplishing them. IMO, when one is looking in the mirror, at self: there will always be fear, uncertainty, terror (especially is one is not dedicated to LYING to self about self in egotistical delusion). When one looks to the Cross and Resurrection, there is every cause for certainty, hope, joy..... and reason to love Him and all beloved by Him.



Pax (IN JESUS!)


- Josiah

 

[Alithis]

There's a thread that asks "saved from what?" but it fails to explain what is in mind. It may be that the thread is searching for what things a person may be saved from; for example saved from poverty, sickness, death, a bad decision, or condemnation by God to eternal punishment. This thread on the other hand is more specific. Can a person know with absolute certainty that they are saved from their sins and the penalty for their sins and thus from condemnation by God in the last judgement?

If you believe that they can then on what foundation do you think their absolute certainty is built upon? Please cite or quote relevant passages from holy scripture if you think they contribute to your view or form its foundations.

If you respond with scripture passages but offer no comment then do not expect anybody to reply. All who are participating in this thread have bibles and know what is in them so merely quoting a passage tells us very little about what you, the person responding in this thread, think and believe regarding the meaning and application of the passage(s) that you quote.

in other words folks -dont quote the bible as a final authority .. hmmmm

 

[MoreCoffee]

in other words folks -dont quote the bible as a final authority .. hmmmm

You may quote the bible in whatever way you like and believe whatever you choose about it but I am not likely to share your perspective

 

[popsthebuilder]

I believe the Bible.
I have faith in GOD. I understand that the absence of sin cannot be by my hand, will, and time, but by the will of God and my patience and perseverance and further Faith in him.

I know that everything happens for a reason and that my weakness and lack of ability to turn from sin is the opening for his will to take place and the means for me to grow in Faith and as such his direction.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

 

[Alithis]

You may quote the bible in whatever way you like and believe whatever you choose about it but I am not likely to share your perspective

the perspective of truth you mean.. yes Iv noticed you don't

 

[MoreCoffee]

the perspective of truth you mean..

That's the perspective of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

 

[psalms 91]

That's the perspective of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

Not always I think. We know God doesnt change so if the pope is infallable why does he on certain issues and please dont ask me to name them as not Catholic but well known that the church has changed her posiition many times and the pope as well

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not always I think. We know God doesnt change so if the pope is infallable why does he on certain issues and please dont ask me to name them as not Catholic but well known that the church has changed her posiition many times and the pope as well

The Catholic Church has kept the same teaching on every matter that is infallibly defined but other matters are opinions or incomplete views not yet decided.