Privacy

MoreCoffee

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Does holy scripture have anything to say about personal privacy? It must be admitted that God knows everything so no privacy can be expected as far as your relationship with God is concerned.

A previous generation was very concerned about government acquiring "at the press of a button" details of all your personal information - medical, dental, financial, taxation, and so forth - and now in our time numerous private companies have acquired most or all of that information at the tap of a screen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThzKQdlGbDw
 

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No, but it does talk about personal accountability for sins
 

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Are you good with Big Brother is Watching You?

If Big Brother is watching me he must really be bored. I'm just not that interesting.
 

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If Big Brother is watching me he must really be bored. I'm just not that interesting.

He is watching you. He has an army of little helpers to do the watching. Some are human but most are "robotic" - being computer applications tracking every on-line and credit and cash activity you perform.
 

atpollard

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Are you good with Big Brother is Watching You?
Is that a Theological question?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 [NASB] First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
 

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Is that a Theological question?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 [NASB] First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

It is a theological question. Consider what the scriptures say about gossip and malicious "information" being spread about with the intention to harm another person. Privacy is one way to protect people from such wicked misuse of information. It is valuable to know that your personal information is private with only God - who is utterly trustworthy - knowing it. Letting private companies and politically motivated governments know and potentially misuse such information must have implications for how one treats one's neighbour, right?
 

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Does holy scripture have anything to say about personal privacy?
1 Kings 6:12 [NASB] One of his servants said, “No, my lord, O king; but Elisha, the prophet who is in Israel, tells the king of Israel the words that you speak in your bedroom.”

Scripture seems to recognize no right to Personal Privacy.
(I could find no other verses on the subject of privacy.)
 

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1 Kings 6:12 [NASB] One of his servants said, “No, my lord, O king; but Elisha, the prophet who is in Israel, tells the king of Israel the words that you speak in your bedroom.”

Scripture seems to recognize no right to Personal Privacy.
(I could find no other verses on the subject of privacy.)

Interesting way of reading that verse. Do you oppose the idea of personal privacy?
 

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Interesting way of reading that verse. Do you oppose the idea of personal privacy?

No, I support personal privacy.

You asked about Scriptural Support for Personal Privacy and I examined multiple translations in a word search for "privacy". I was able to locate only one translation that used the English word 'privacy' in any scripture verse (the NLT) and that was the only verse that any translator felt the word privacy was included in the equivalent thought translation. It appears in no equivalent word translation.

I cannot claim that the Bible says something that it does not.
Do you have any verses you feel address the question of personal privacy?
Absent any other verses, I have answered your 'theological' question about what scripture says to the best of my ability.

God empowered a prophet to violate the personal privacy of an evil King by providing secrets to a foreign King. That is God empowered government violation of personal privacy.
 

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No, I support personal privacy.

You asked about Scriptural Support for Personal Privacy and I examined multiple translations in a word search for "privacy". I was able to locate only one translation that used the English word 'privacy' in any scripture verse (the NLT) and that was the only verse that any translator felt the word privacy was included in the equivalent thought translation. It appears in no equivalent word translation.

I cannot claim that the Bible says something that it does not.
Do you have any verses you feel address the question of personal privacy?
Absent any other verses, I have answered your 'theological' question about what scripture says to the best of my ability.

God empowered a prophet to violate the personal privacy of an evil King by providing secrets to a foreign King. That is God empowered government violation of personal privacy.

Here's a selection of verses using "private"
(Genesis 43:32) Joseph was served at his private table, the brothers off by themselves and the Egyptians off by themselves (Egyptians won't eat at the same table with Hebrews; it's repulsive to them).

(Numbers 25:8) and followed them into the tent. With one thrust he drove the spear through the two of them, the man of Israel and the woman, right through their private parts. That stopped the plague from continuing among the People of Israel.

(Judges 3:19) But when he got as far as the stone images near Gilgal, he went back and said, "I have a private message for you, O king." The king told his servants, "Leave." They all left.

(Judges 17:5) This man, Micah, had a private chapel. He had made an ephod and some teraphim-idols and had ordained one of his sons to be his priest.

(Judges 18:31) All during the time that there was a sanctuary of God in Shiloh, they kept for their private use the god-figure that Micah had made.

(2 Samuel 3:19) Abner took the Benjaminites aside and spoke to them. Then he went to Hebron for a private talk with David, telling him everything that Israel in general and Benjamin in particular were planning to do.

(2 Samuel 19:5) But in private Joab rebuked the king: "Now you've done it--knocked the wind out of your loyal servants who have just saved your life, to say nothing of the lives of your sons and daughters, wives and concubines.

(2 Samuel 22:7) A hostile world! I called to GOD, to my God I cried out. From his palace he heard me call; my cry brought me right into his presence-- a private audience!

(2 Kings 7:9) Finally they said to one another, "We shouldn't be doing this! This is a day of good news and we're making it into a private party! If we wait around until morning we'll get caught and punished. Come on! Let's go tell the news to the king's palace!"

(2 Kings 11:2) But Jehosheba, daughter of King Joram and sister of Ahaziah, took Ahaziah's son Joash and kidnapped him from among the king's sons slated for slaughter. She hid him and his nurse in a private room away from Athaliah. He didn't get killed.

(2 Kings 15:25) And then his military aide Pekah son of Remaliah conspired against him--killed him in cold blood while he was in his private quarters in the royal palace in Samaria. He also killed Argob and Arieh. Fifty Gadites were in on the conspiracy with him. After the murder he became the next king.

(2 Kings 18:24) You can't do it? Well, then, how do you think you're going to turn back even one raw buck private from my master's troops? How long are you going to hold on to that figment of your imagination, these hoped-for Egyptian chariots and horses?

(2 Kings 18:27) But the Rabshakeh said, "We weren't sent with a private message to your master and you; this is public--a message to everyone within earshot. After all, they're involved in this as well as you; if you don't come to terms, they'll be eating their own turds and drinking their own pee right along with you."

(2 Kings 23:8) He swept the outlying towns of Judah clean of priests and smashed the sex-and-religion shrines where they worked their trade from one end of the country to the other--all the way from Geba to Beersheba. He smashed the sex-and-religion shrine that had been set up just to the left of the city gate for the private use of Joshua, the city mayor.

(2 Chronicles 22:11) Jehosheba, daughter of King Jehoram, took Ahaziah's son Joash, and kidnapped him from among the king's sons slated for slaughter. She hid him and his nurse in a private room away from Athaliah. So Jehosheba, daughter of King Jehoram and Ahaziah's sister--she was also the wife of Jehoiada the priest--saved Joash from the murderous Queen Athaliah.

(Esther 5:12) "On top of all that," Haman continued, "Queen Esther invited me to a private dinner she gave for the king, just the three of us. And she's invited me to another one tomorrow.

(Psalms 18:6) A hostile world! I call to GOD, I cry to God to help me. From his palace he hears my call; my cry brings me right into his presence-- a private audience!

(Song of Solomon 4:12) Dear lover and friend, you're a secret garden, a private and pure fountain.

(Isaiah 14:11) This is where your pomp and fine music led you, Babylon, to your underworld private chambers, A king-size mattress of maggots for repose and a quilt of crawling worms for warmth.

(Luke 10:23) He then turned in a private aside to his disciples. "Fortunate the eyes that see what you're seeing!

(Luke 12:3) You can't whisper one thing in private and preach the opposite in public; the day's coming when those whispers will be repeated all over town.

(Acts 28:16) When we actually entered Rome, they let Paul live in his own private quarters with a soldier who had been assigned to guard him.

(1 Corinthians 14:2) If you praise him in the private language of tongues, God understands you but no one else does, for you are sharing intimacies just between you and him.

(1 Corinthians 14:4) The one who prays using a private "prayer language" certainly gets a lot out of it, but proclaiming God's truth to the church in its common language brings the whole church into growth and strength.

(1 Corinthians 14:13) So, when you pray in your private prayer language, don't hoard the experience for yourself. Pray for the insight and ability to bring others into that intimacy.

(1 Corinthians 14:16) If you give a blessing using your private prayer language, which no one else understands, how can some outsider who has just shown up and has no idea what's going on know when to say "Amen"?

(Galatians 2:2) I went to clarify with them what had been revealed to me. At that time I placed before them exactly what I was preaching to the non-Jews. I did this in private with the leaders, those held in esteem by the church, so that our concern would not become a controversial public issue, marred by ethnic tensions, exposing my years of work to denigration and endangering my present ministry.

(2 Peter 1:20) The main thing to keep in mind here is that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of private opinion.
 

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Here's a selection of verses using "private"
(Genesis 43:32) Joseph was served at his private table, the brothers off by themselves and the Egyptians off by themselves (Egyptians won't eat at the same table with Hebrews; it's repulsive to them).

(Numbers 25:8) and followed them into the tent. With one thrust he drove the spear through the two of them, the man of Israel and the woman, right through their private parts. That stopped the plague from continuing among the People of Israel.

(Judges 3:19) But when he got as far as the stone images near Gilgal, he went back and said, "I have a private message for you, O king." The king told his servants, "Leave." They all left.

(Judges 17:5) This man, Micah, had a private chapel. He had made an ephod and some teraphim-idols and had ordained one of his sons to be his priest.

(Judges 18:31) All during the time that there was a sanctuary of God in Shiloh, they kept for their private use the god-figure that Micah had made.

(2 Samuel 3:19) Abner took the Benjaminites aside and spoke to them. Then he went to Hebron for a private talk with David, telling him everything that Israel in general and Benjamin in particular were planning to do.

(2 Samuel 19:5) But in private Joab rebuked the king: "Now you've done it--knocked the wind out of your loyal servants who have just saved your life, to say nothing of the lives of your sons and daughters, wives and concubines.

(2 Samuel 22:7) A hostile world! I called to GOD, to my God I cried out. From his palace he heard me call; my cry brought me right into his presence-- a private audience!

(2 Kings 7:9) Finally they said to one another, "We shouldn't be doing this! This is a day of good news and we're making it into a private party! If we wait around until morning we'll get caught and punished. Come on! Let's go tell the news to the king's palace!"

(2 Kings 11:2) But Jehosheba, daughter of King Joram and sister of Ahaziah, took Ahaziah's son Joash and kidnapped him from among the king's sons slated for slaughter. She hid him and his nurse in a private room away from Athaliah. He didn't get killed.

(2 Kings 15:25) And then his military aide Pekah son of Remaliah conspired against him--killed him in cold blood while he was in his private quarters in the royal palace in Samaria. He also killed Argob and Arieh. Fifty Gadites were in on the conspiracy with him. After the murder he became the next king.

(2 Kings 18:24) You can't do it? Well, then, how do you think you're going to turn back even one raw buck private from my master's troops? How long are you going to hold on to that figment of your imagination, these hoped-for Egyptian chariots and horses?

(2 Kings 18:27) But the Rabshakeh said, "We weren't sent with a private message to your master and you; this is public--a message to everyone within earshot. After all, they're involved in this as well as you; if you don't come to terms, they'll be eating their own turds and drinking their own pee right along with you."

(2 Kings 23:8) He swept the outlying towns of Judah clean of priests and smashed the sex-and-religion shrines where they worked their trade from one end of the country to the other--all the way from Geba to Beersheba. He smashed the sex-and-religion shrine that had been set up just to the left of the city gate for the private use of Joshua, the city mayor.

(2 Chronicles 22:11) Jehosheba, daughter of King Jehoram, took Ahaziah's son Joash, and kidnapped him from among the king's sons slated for slaughter. She hid him and his nurse in a private room away from Athaliah. So Jehosheba, daughter of King Jehoram and Ahaziah's sister--she was also the wife of Jehoiada the priest--saved Joash from the murderous Queen Athaliah.

(Esther 5:12) "On top of all that," Haman continued, "Queen Esther invited me to a private dinner she gave for the king, just the three of us. And she's invited me to another one tomorrow.

(Psalms 18:6) A hostile world! I call to GOD, I cry to God to help me. From his palace he hears my call; my cry brings me right into his presence-- a private audience!

(Song of Solomon 4:12) Dear lover and friend, you're a secret garden, a private and pure fountain.

(Isaiah 14:11) This is where your pomp and fine music led you, Babylon, to your underworld private chambers, A king-size mattress of maggots for repose and a quilt of crawling worms for warmth.

(Luke 10:23) He then turned in a private aside to his disciples. "Fortunate the eyes that see what you're seeing!

(Luke 12:3) You can't whisper one thing in private and preach the opposite in public; the day's coming when those whispers will be repeated all over town.

(Acts 28:16) When we actually entered Rome, they let Paul live in his own private quarters with a soldier who had been assigned to guard him.

(1 Corinthians 14:2) If you praise him in the private language of tongues, God understands you but no one else does, for you are sharing intimacies just between you and him.

(1 Corinthians 14:4) The one who prays using a private "prayer language" certainly gets a lot out of it, but proclaiming God's truth to the church in its common language brings the whole church into growth and strength.

(1 Corinthians 14:13) So, when you pray in your private prayer language, don't hoard the experience for yourself. Pray for the insight and ability to bring others into that intimacy.

(1 Corinthians 14:16) If you give a blessing using your private prayer language, which no one else understands, how can some outsider who has just shown up and has no idea what's going on know when to say "Amen"?

(Galatians 2:2) I went to clarify with them what had been revealed to me. At that time I placed before them exactly what I was preaching to the non-Jews. I did this in private with the leaders, those held in esteem by the church, so that our concern would not become a controversial public issue, marred by ethnic tensions, exposing my years of work to denigration and endangering my present ministry.

(2 Peter 1:20) The main thing to keep in mind here is that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of private opinion.

Which of those advocate for Personal Privacy of the individual from the Government?
I saw several that, at first glance, seemed to argue against it.
 

MoreCoffee

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Which of those advocate for Personal Privacy of the individual from the Government?
I saw several that, at first glance, seemed to argue against it.

"Private opinion", I suppose "private parts" (slight chuckle here), "private prayer language", "private quarters", I suppose they all point to privacy being part of the world of the first century and who can deny that such was the case in a pre-CCTV and pre-listening-device era?

I like my privacy. I do not want companies and governments watching me and listening to me all the time or even a lot of the time or any of the time without permission. But I guess it is part of the way the world works now. I wonder if that is how God runs heaven? Is it a surveillance state?
 

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I wonder if that is how God runs heaven? Is it a surveillance state?
Ummm ... I'll take a shot at the easy one first.

Isn't Heaven a Kingdom run by an omnicient God?
(You may want to look up 'omniscient' in a dictionary. 'Omnipresent' is another word applied to the King of Heaven that you might want to check out as well.). :)
 

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Which of those advocate for Personal Privacy of the individual from the Government? I saw several that, at first glance, seemed to argue against it.

"Private opinion",
(2 Peter 1:20) The main thing to keep in mind here is that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of private opinion

First, it says that "the main thing to keep in mind" is that NO SCRIPTURE is a matter of private opinion. The verse is anti-private opinion. In fact it demands that the individual yield to the collective in matters of interpreting scripture.


I suppose "private parts" (slight chuckle here),
(Numbers 25:8) and followed them into the tent. With one thrust he drove the spear through the two of them, the man of Israel and the woman, right through their private parts. That stopped the plague from continuing among the People of Israel.

Here is the verse in context (Numbers 25:1-9):
1 While Israel remained at Shittim, the people began to play the harlot with the daughters of Moab. 2 For they invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. 3 So Israel joined themselves to [fn]Baal of Peor, and the LORDwas angry against Israel. 4 The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and execute them [fn]in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel.” 5 So Moses said to the judges of Israel, “Each of you slay his men who have joined themselves to [fn]Baal of Peor.”
6 Then behold, one of the sons of Israel came and brought to his [fn]relatives a Midianite woman, in the sight of Moses and in the sight of all the congregation of the sons of Israel, while they were weeping at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he arose from the midst of the congregation and took a spear in his hand, 8 and he went after the man of Israel into the [fn]tent and pierced both of them through, the man of Israel and the woman, through the [fn]body. So the plague on the sons of Israel was checked. 9 Those who died by the plague were 24,000.

So in context, the whole story is about EXACTLY the opposite of personal privacy. What two consenting adults did in the privacy of their own bedrooms cost the lives of 24,000 people in a plague and ended only when a priest burst in on the privacy of a man and a woman and killed them on behalf of God, ruler of Israel, the government.

I take this as a Scripture verse that does not support personal privacy.


"private prayer language",
(1 Corinthians 14:16) If you give a blessing using your private prayer language, which no one else understands, how can some outsider who has just shown up and has no idea what's going on know when to say "Amen"?

I am unsure how a "private prayer language" has anything to do with the issue of personal privacy. On the other hand, the translation you presented seems unique in using that particular phrase. Here is a more common translation of that phrase:

1 Corinthians 14:16 [NASB] Otherwise if you bless [fn]in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the [fn]ungifted say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?

I have no fear of the government eavesdropping on my private spiritual communication with God as even a remote possibility. In any event, this verse seems to have nothing to do with the government or personal privacy.


"private quarters",
(2 Kings 15:25) And then his military aide Pekah son of Remaliah conspired against him--killed him in cold blood while he was in his private quarters in the royal palace in Samaria. He also killed Argob and Arieh. Fifty Gadites were in on the conspiracy with him. After the murder he became the next king

... um, a verse about treachery and a coup resulting in the murder of a king in his private quarters is somehow supposed to indicate that scripture supports personal privacy of the individual over the right of government to gather information. How exactly do you connect those dots? This king gave them their personal privacy and they used it to plot murder and insurrection. At best, the verse seems unrelated to the issue of personal privacy, and at worst it represents a warning to kings against granting it.


I suppose they all point to privacy being part of the world of the first century and who can deny that such was the case in a pre-CCTV and pre-listening-device era?
I can. Have you ever heard of telephone party lines, or 'paper thin' apartment walls. The warnings of being a gossip and the ability to spy on a neighbor far predate the era of modern surveillance. This does not mean that what the government can and possibly is doing is good. For all I know, it is an important step on the way to the 'abomination of desolation' demanding to be worshipped and the great flood of martyrdom in the Last Days.

However, your original question for this topic was:
Does holy scripture have anything to say about personal privacy?

Based on the scripture presented, YES.
Scripture does not recognize 'personal privacy' as a right. Scripture is against it.

At this point I have examined a lot of scripture and provided analysis of many. You will have to provide more than a verse containing the word 'private' to make any sort of case for the Bible supporting the idea of 'personal privacy' as a right or expectation.
 

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...
Scripture does not recognize 'personal privacy' as a right. Scripture is against it.
...

"A right" is not something I've ever seen in scripture. The law set some rules about deciding disputes and God commands the good treatment of foreigners residing in the land, good treatment of the poor and orphans and widows and so forth but rights in the sense of a bill of rights - as the USA constitution contains as a set of amendments - is not present in holy scripture. Even the USA constitution does not grant a right to privacy. But that is not the point is it?

God created human beings and gives them dignity as his image bearers. There's no specific verse granting rights but there is a theme in holy scripture that does more than the USA constitution does to grant every human being dignity as a human being. Privacy is part of human dignity.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church treats privacy as a consequence of the 8th commandment (st Augustine's numbering for the commandments).

THE EIGHTH COMMANDMENT

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.[SUP]253[/SUP]

It was said to the men of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn."[SUP]254 [/SUP]

...

IV. RESPECT FOR THE TRUTH

2488 The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it.

2489 Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it.[SUP]283[/SUP]

2490 The secret of the sacrament of reconciliation is sacred, and cannot be violated under any pretext. "The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore, it is a crime for a confessor in any way to betray a penitent by word or in any other manner or for any reason."[SUP]284[/SUP]

2491 Professional secrets - for example, those of political office holders, soldiers, physicians, and lawyers - or confidential information given under the seal of secrecy must be kept, save in exceptional cases where keeping the secret is bound to cause very grave harm to the one who confided it, to the one who received it or to a third party, and where the very grave harm can be avoided only by divulging the truth. Even if not confided under the seal of secrecy, private information prejudicial to another is not to be divulged without a grave and proportionate reason.

2492 Everyone should observe an appropriate reserve concerning persons' private lives. Those in charge of communications should maintain a fair balance between the requirements of the common good and respect for individual rights. Interference by the media in the private lives of persons engaged in political or public activity is to be condemned to the extent that it infringes upon their privacy and freedom.

V. THE USE OF THE SOCIAL COMMUNICATIONS MEDIA

2493 Within modern society the communications media play a major role in information, cultural promotion, and formation. This role is increasing, as a result of technological progress, the extent and diversity of the news transmitted, and the influence exercised on public opinion.

2494 The information provided by the media is at the service of the common good.[SUP]285 [/SUP]Society has a right to information based on truth, freedom, justice, and solidarity:

The proper exercise of this right demands that the content of the communication be true and - within the limits set by justice and charity - complete. Further, it should be communicated honestly and properly. This means that in the gathering and in the publication of news, the moral law and the legitimate rights and dignity of man should be upheld.[SUP]286 [/SUP]

2495 "It is necessary that all members of society meet the demands of justice and charity in this domain. They should help, through the means of social communication, in the formation and diffusion of sound public opinion."[SUP]287 [/SUP]Solidarity is a consequence of genuine and right communication and the free circulation of ideas that further knowledge and respect for others.

2496 The means of social communication (especially the mass media) can give rise to a certain passivity among users, making them less than vigilant consumers of what is said or shown. Users should practice moderation and discipline in their approach to the mass media. They will want to form enlightened and correct consciences the more easily to resist unwholesome influences.

2497 By the very nature of their profession, journalists have an obligation to serve the truth and not offend against charity in disseminating information. They should strive to respect, with equal care, the nature of the facts and the limits of critical judgment concerning individuals. They should not stoop to defamation.

2498 "Civil authorities have particular responsibilities in this field because of the common good. . . . It is for the civil authority . . . to defend and safeguard a true and just freedom of information."288 By promulgating laws and overseeing their application, public authorities should ensure that "public morality and social progress are not gravely endangered" through misuse of the media.289 Civil authorities should punish any violation of the rights of individuals to their reputation and privacy. They should give timely and reliable reports concerning the general good or respond to the well-founded concerns of the people. Nothing can justify recourse to disinformation for manipulating public opinion through the media. Interventions by public authority should avoid injuring the freedom of individuals or groups.

2499 Moral judgment must condemn the plague of totalitarian states which systematically falsify the truth, exercise political control of opinion through the media, manipulate defendants and witnesses at public trials, and imagine that they secure their tyranny by strangling and repressing everything they consider "thought crimes."

253 Ex 20:16; cf. Deut 5:20.
254 Mt 5:33.
...
283 Cf. 27:16; Prov 25:9-10.
284 CIC, Can. 983 § 1.
285 Cf. IM 11.
286 IM 5 § 2.
287 IM 8.​
 
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atpollard

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From the evidence presented, you and I must have a different definition of "Scripture".
 

Josiah

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I don't think we can make a solid case for personal privacy from the Bible..... I think this is a concept largely from the Enlightenment.

I think every modern society struggles with this, both collectively as culture and government, and individually. We deal with it in my workplace. I don't check my wife's computer for where she's been, she doesn't check mine. I had VERY little privacy when I was a kid in my parent's home (and I'd defend that). I think a lot of this is in flex and people seek a balance.

But I don't think any of this is specifically addressed in the Bible.



- Josiah
 

MoreCoffee

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