Predestined

[MoreCoffee]

Is it enough to know that the gospel is a call to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
Or must one have a theory about who will accept it and who will not?

Given saint John's statement near the end of his gospel:

Jesus also accomplished many other signs in the sight of his disciples. These have not been written in this book. But these things have been written, so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that, in believing, you may have life in his name.​

John 20:30-31
should readers accept the face value invitation and decide for themselves to believe or not.

Can we read other statements in saint John's gospel at face value too? Statements such as:

On the next day, John saw Jesus coming toward him, and so he said: "Behold, the Lamb of God. Behold, he who takes away the sin of the world. This is the one about whom I said, "After me arrives a man, who has been placed ahead of me, because he existed before me." And I did not know him. Yet it is for this reason that I come baptizing with water: so that he may be made manifest in Israel." And John offered testimony, saying: "For I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove; and he remained upon him. And I did not know him. But he who sent me to baptize with water said to me: "He over whom you will see the Spirit descending and remaining upon him, this is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." And I saw, and I gave testimony: that this one is the Son of God."​

John 1:29-34
And:

Now there was a man among the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He went to Jesus at night, and he said to him: "Rabbi, we know that you have arrived as a teacher from God. For no one would be able to accomplish these signs, which you accomplish, unless God were with him." Jesus responded and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn anew, he is not able to see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him: "How could a man be born when he is old? Surely, he cannot enter a second time into his mother"s womb to be reborn?" Jesus responded: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn by water and the Holy Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You should not be amazed that I said to you: You must be born anew. The Spirit inspires where he wills. And you hear his voice, but you do not know where he comes from, or where he is going. So it is with all who are born of the Spirit." Nicodemus responded and said to him, "How are these things able to be accomplished?" Jesus responded and said to him: "You are a teacher in Israel, and you are ignorant of these things? Amen, amen, I say to you, that we speak about what we know, and we testify about what we have seen. But you do not accept our testimony. If I have spoken to you about earthly things, and you have not believed, then how will you believe, if I will speak to you about heavenly things? And no one has ascended to heaven, except the one who descended from heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so also must the Son of man be lifted up, so that whoever believes in him may not perish, but may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that all who believe in him may not perish, but may have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world, in order to judge the world, but in order that the world may be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not judged. But whoever does not believe is already judged, because he does not believe in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment: that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness more than light. For their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light and does not go toward the Light, so that his works may not be corrected. But whoever acts in truth goes toward the Light, so that his works may be manifested, because they have been accomplished in God."​

John 3:1-21

Believe! Is the message.

Don't waste your life theorising about who can and who cannot believe.

 

[1689Dave]

Is it enough to know that the gospel is a call to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ?
Or must one have a theory about who will accept it and who will not?

Given saint John's statement near the end of his gospel:

Jesus also accomplished many other signs in the sight of his disciples. These have not been written in this book. But these things have been written, so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and so that, in believing, you may have life in his name.​

John 20:30-31
should readers accept the face value invitation and decide for themselves to believe or not.

Can we read other statements in saint John's gospel at face value too? Statements such as:

On the next day, John saw Jesus coming toward him, and so he said: "Behold, the Lamb of God. Behold, he who takes away the sin of the world. This is the one about whom I said, "After me arrives a man, who has been placed ahead of me, because he existed before me." And I did not know him. Yet it is for this reason that I come baptizing with water: so that he may be made manifest in Israel." And John offered testimony, saying: "For I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove; and he remained upon him. And I did not know him. But he who sent me to baptize with water said to me: "He over whom you will see the Spirit descending and remaining upon him, this is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." And I saw, and I gave testimony: that this one is the Son of God."​

John 1:29-34
And:

Now there was a man among the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He went to Jesus at night, and he said to him: "Rabbi, we know that you have arrived as a teacher from God. For no one would be able to accomplish these signs, which you accomplish, unless God were with him." Jesus responded and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn anew, he is not able to see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to him: "How could a man be born when he is old? Surely, he cannot enter a second time into his mother"s womb to be reborn?" Jesus responded: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless one has been reborn by water and the Holy Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. You should not be amazed that I said to you: You must be born anew. The Spirit inspires where he wills. And you hear his voice, but you do not know where he comes from, or where he is going. So it is with all who are born of the Spirit." Nicodemus responded and said to him, "How are these things able to be accomplished?" Jesus responded and said to him: "You are a teacher in Israel, and you are ignorant of these things? Amen, amen, I say to you, that we speak about what we know, and we testify about what we have seen. But you do not accept our testimony. If I have spoken to you about earthly things, and you have not believed, then how will you believe, if I will speak to you about heavenly things? And no one has ascended to heaven, except the one who descended from heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so also must the Son of man be lifted up, so that whoever believes in him may not perish, but may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that all who believe in him may not perish, but may have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world, in order to judge the world, but in order that the world may be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not judged. But whoever does not believe is already judged, because he does not believe in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment: that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness more than light. For their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light and does not go toward the Light, so that his works may not be corrected. But whoever acts in truth goes toward the Light, so that his works may be manifested, because they have been accomplished in God."​

John 3:1-21

Believe! Is the message.

Don't waste your life theorising about who can and who cannot believe.

Good article. If I were to add anything, it would be people cannot grasp and believe spiritual truth unless God first gives them a new heart. Only then can they not worship idols they might even call Jesus. The new heart has a Holy disposition that causes the believer to do what the Sermon on the Mount teaches, even if they never hear the Sermon. It is like a cat does cat things because it is a cat. And so it is with the New Heart.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Good article. If I were to add anything, it would be people cannot grasp and believe spiritual truth unless God first gives them a new heart. Only then can they not worship idols they might even call Jesus. The new heart has a Holy disposition that causes the believer to do what the Sermon on the Mount teaches, even if they never hear the Sermon. It is like a cat does cat things because it is a cat. And so it is with the New Heart.

It is my own work, composed in a few minutes. What the heart believes the mouth will speak and the fingers type. It is a natural product, yet a grace from God too.

 

[MoreCoffee]

So, we're agreed that one ought not "waste your life theorising about who can and who cannot believe."?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So, we're agreed that one ought not "waste your life theorising about who can and who cannot believe."?

Instead, Christians ought to spend their time profitably, proclaiming the gospel.

Believe! believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household.

Thus, the gospel is to be preached to all creation, for a witness, and then the end [of the ages] shall come.

So, all who believe the gospel are predestined to be saved because they believed the message of the son of God.

 

[1689Dave]

So, we're agreed that one ought not "waste your life theorising about who can and who cannot believe."?

My position is that people interpret scripture based on their level of comprehension. The carnal mind understands the world around them and so they secularize, or worse, Americanise

Instead, Christians ought to spend their time profitably, proclaiming the gospel.

Believe! believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your household.

Thus, the gospel is to be preached to all creation, for a witness, and then the end [of the ages] shall come.

So, all who believe the gospel are predestined to be saved because they believed the message of the son of God.

The problem is, they turn the gospel into law. Law cannot save. So we have many lost souls who think they saved themselves through obedience when scripture teaches nothing of the sort.