Predestination

[Jazzy]

What is Biblical predestination?

 

[Lees]

What is Biblical predestination?

Strongs, 4309. To limit in advance, determine before, ordain, predetermined.

(Rom. 8:29) "For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son...."

(Eph. 1:5) "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself...."

Some important points:

1.) Predestination has nothing to do with the unsaved.

2.) Predestination deals with the saved only.

3.) God does not predestine the unsaved.

4.) We who are saved, are predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ. To receive the adult son placement as sons of God. (adoption)

Lees

 

[Josiah]

What is Biblical predestination?

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Some Scriptures:

Ephesians 1:3-7
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace."

2 Thessalonians 2:13
"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

Acts 13:48
"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to believe."

Romans 8:30
"Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

2 Timothy 1:9
"Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began."

Matthew 24:22-24
"And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."

Others....
Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20,22,27; Luke 18:7; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1, etc., etc.


Some Notes:


1. This is about JUSTIFICATION (in the narrow sense), not philosophy. This doctrine does NOT hold that everything is predetermined; it is unrelated to the Greek philosophy of fate. Because of this, Lutherans often avoid the word "predestination" (a philosophical word) and use the term "Election" (although both are used interchangeably in Scripture). This doctrine (held by Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans and Calvinists) has NOTHING to do with my having toast with peanut butter for breakfast this morning (I had "free will" there), it's NOT the philosophy of determinism.


2. Some confuse foreknowledge with predestination. They are not the same thing. Foreknowledge means to KNOW something before it happens. Predestination means to CAUSE it to happen. An illustration: I have foreknowledge that the sun will come up tomorrow. But I have nothing to do with it and do not cause it. They are two entirely different things.


3. As a Lutheran, I believe that there is mystery in soteriology (which is why Lutherans tend to stay out of the Arminianist/Calvinist fight). The exact interplay of faith and grace, the exact dynamics in HOW God saves us is simply not completely defined in Scripture - and thus we leave it as mystery. The bottom line is this: GOD is the Savior, not us. And we are justified by God's grace in Christ through our faith, which is the gift of God. THAT we affirm with passion! BTW, Lutherans tend to define "grace" here in a typically Protestant rather than Catholic manner, as God's undeserved, unmerited love, mercy and blessing, as getting what we don't deserve or earn; we don't define it as a "juice" God imputes in us that makes us able to do what we would not otherwise.


4. The doctrine of Predestination/Election applies to the granting of faith. It does NOT apply to the Cross but to faith. God predestines who will be granted the divine gift of faith, not whom God will love or for whom Christ will die. More on the difference between Lutheran and Calvinist ideas here: Why Lutheran Predestination isnt Calvinist Predestination | Mathew Block


5. There are two purposes/functions of this teaching.

A. Lutherans understand "predestination" (election) as GOSPEL. For Lutherans, whether something is Law or Gospel is key to understanding it, and we see this as Gospel. It is meant to comfort and assure BELIEVERS; it is not meant to be a 'terror of the conscience.' Let me use this illustration (however flawed). I was "born" by C-section because I had a severe (and potentially fatal) heart problem that needed immediate surgery; for sometime after my birth (and before my second surgery), I was quite limited in size and activities. Anyway, I SO VIVIDLY recall that when I was a little boy, I LOVED when my mother would tell me about before I was born. She told me how very much she loved me and how she prayed constantly for me. She told me how Dad traded in his beloved sports car for a station wagon, and gave up his office at home so it could be converted into a nursery for me (remember - the chances of me living were poor). They told me that the day of my birth and first surgery, my bother and sister both prayed out loud for me (I'd remember that when I had a fight with them!). And many friends, relatives and people from the church were at the hospital (some distance away since I was born at a children's teaching hospital affiliated with a university). Our pastor was there. Mom stressed to me how much I was loved EVEN BEFORE I WAS BORN. How much Mom and Dad wanted me, how much they did for me, the sacrifices they made for me. And they didn't know I would be such a smart, great, incredibly handsome guy. They loved me BEFORE I did ANYTHING. Now, here's the meaning of that for me: I felt comforted, assured. I KNEW they loved me. They'd get mad at me. Dad would sometimes discipline me, I had some ( now embarrassing) fights with my Mom. BUT I knew they loved me - unconditionally, not because of who I am or am not, but because they have this incredible ability to love. And nothing would change that, nothing would separate me from that. And they would sacrifice for me - and they did. I'd ask my Mom to tell me about before I was born - and she'd go over all that. Again and again. It's good to know.

B. It underlines SOLI DEO GLORIA, that justification (narrow) is GOD'S work and gift, not a reward for dead, unregenerate, atheistic, enemies of God adequately jumping though a series of hoops. Since the key is before we were born, obviously it's not based in our works but God's heart.


6. The doctrine of election not only places all our confidence, hope, comfort and courage in GOD (see point #5 above) but it also takes the pride and burden off of us. We are not the Savior, God is. The doctrine of election builds humility, as well as hope and comfort. God's love and gifts flow from His heart, not our merits. This teaching causes humility and confidence.


7. It is (perhaps) logical to conclude that since God only gives faith to SOME, ergo He desires all others to fry in hell. If not by actively CAUSING such then by simply "passing over" them. Logical, perhaps, but very unbiblical. The Bible says that Jesus came to ALL, that He died for ALL, that God desires ALL to be saved. So while this point (made by a few latter-day radical Calvinists) makes some sense, it flat out contradicts Scripture... and it turns a doctrine of great comfort into a horrible terror, changes God from loving to a monster. Again, we have mystery here: God's grace is universal.... God desires all to be saved... Jesus died for all.... God gives faith to some. In the opinion of historic, orthodox Christianity, it is best to leave this where Scripture does and to accept we just don't understand how this cranks out in practice RATHER THAN impose teachings that directly contradict Scripture (the definition of heresy).



Blessings!


Josiah



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[Lees]

It is important to recognize that 'foreknowledge' precedes 'predestination. God's knowing precedes his work of predestination on the persons behalf. "For whom he did foreknow; he also did predestinate...." (Rom. 8:29)

And, equally important, is that it is not said that God foreknows who will accept Him or His Son. It is said, 'whom he did foreknow; he also did predestinate'. (Rom. 8:29)

In other words, God knows who are His before any work of predestination begins. And because He knows that 'one', then He calls, and justifies, and glorifies that one. (Rom. 8:30)

Lees

 

[Josiah]

It is important to recognize that 'foreknowledge' precedes 'predestination. God's knAsowing precedes his work of predestination on the persons behalf. "For whom he did foreknow; he also did predestinate...." (Rom. 8:29)

1. As I understand it, the Greek doesn't mean or remotely imply sequence. I agree, it seems that in English but evidently not in Greek. The Greek simply notes that God BOTH foreknows and predestines. No sequence is conveyed. It doesn't say, "First God foreknew and after that He predestined." Not there.

2. Your "take" is logically impossible. "I knew my son would fall off his bike so I caused him to fall off." See the bad logic there?

In other words, God knows who are His before any work of predestination begins.

Again, entirely illogical. And not at all what Scripture states. Your "OTHER words" are not God's words.




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[Lees]

1. As I understand it, the Greek doesn't mean or remotely imply sequence. I agree, it seems that in English but evidently not in Greek. The Greek simply notes that God BOTH foreknows and predestines. No sequence is conveyed. It doesn't say, "First God foreknew and after that He predestined." Not there.

2. Your "take" is logically impossible. "I knew my son would fall off his bike so I caused him to fall off." See the bad logic there?





Again, entirely illogical. And not at all what Scripture states. Your "OTHER words" are not God's words.




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It 'seems that in English' because it is a correct translation from the Greek. Sequence is certainly presented.

Are you glorified yet? (Rom. 8:30) I hazard a guess that you are not. Thus your being glorified follows your being justified. And your being justified follows your being called. Correct?

Just because God's work pertaining to His people is presented as a finished work, doesn't mean it doesn't follow the steps laid out in (Rom. 8:29-30). And the act of being 'conformed', (Rom. 8:29), speaks to a work in progress.

Your example is certainly bad logic. But it's yours not mine. It is just the opposite of what I am saying. I explained in my second paragraph in post # (4), which for some reason you have ignored. I am saying God knows who are His first. God doesn't look ahead and see who will accept Him and Christ and so then predestines them. God predestines those He knows and as a result they will receive Him.

Your 'illogic' is your own. Not mine. So, before going further, do you see your misunderstanding of what I said?

Lees