Pentecost Sunday!

[Tigger]

So this coming Sunday June 4th is Pentecost Sunday! Does your particular congregation or denomination do anything unique to commemorate the occasion? As is typical for many churches our congregation puts out a reminder to wear red to signify the tongues of fire descending upon their heads in the upper room.

 

[IACOBVS]

The clergy of most litugical churches will wear red. The antepedia will also be red. Interestingly, most Pentecostal churches don't mark the day in any way, as they do not follow the Church Calendar with its attending feast days.

 

[Tigger]

This is true and one of the reasons I prefer liturgical churches. Although I do remember when attending non-liturgical churches sometimes the pastor will read and preach on it.

 

[Josiah]

Pretty red vestments appear..... a pretty red banner hangs predominately.... there's readings, prayers, hymns, choir anthems, and a sermon focused on Pentecost...

Yes, it IS interesting that non-Pentecostals celebrate the festival but Penteocostals don't. It is kind of odd.



Pax Christi



- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

PENTECOST QUESTION....


In my Catholic days, Pentecost was celebrated as a birthday, "the Birthday of the Church." I never understood that.....

I don't really remember the rationale used for this, but I recall something about the Book of Acts starts with this and that means it's the birth of the church - but actually Acts starts with the Ascension, and just because a canonical book starts with something doesn't make that the birthday (or else Christmas would not be the birth of Jesus since no canonical book starts wtih that and half of them don't even mention it). And I remember something about this is when the church started ACTING like the church, when it began preaching and teaching... okay... but does that mean the disciples and Apostles didn't proclaim Jesus until then? I don't know....

I use to think this was purely a CATHOLIC thing. And it confused me because I'd THINK that denomination would consider Jesus giving those keys to Peter as the birth of that denomination. But in any case, I eventually learned a lot of Protestants speak this way too (including Lutherans) and also celebrate Pentecost as "The Birthday of the Church."

No big deal, it's not that I have some dispute or problem with this, I just don't understand the rationale.

Can anyone explain?



- Josiah

 

[IACOBVS]

PENTECOST QUESTION....


In my Catholic days, Pentecost was celebrated as a birthday, "the Birthday of the Church." I never understood that.....

I don't really remember the rationale used for this, but I recall something about the Book of Acts starts with this and that means it's the birth of the church - but actually Acts starts with the Ascension, and just because a canonical book starts with something doesn't make that the birthday (or else Christmas would not be the birth of Jesus since no canonical book starts wtih that and half of them don't even mention it). And I remember something about this is when the church started ACTING like the church, when it began preaching and teaching... okay... but does that mean the disciples and Apostles didn't proclaim Jesus until then? I don't know....

I use to think this was purely a CATHOLIC thing. And it confused me because I'd THINK that denomination would consider Jesus giving those keys to Peter as the birth of that denomination. But in any case, I eventually learned a lot of Protestants speak this way too (including Lutherans) and also celebrate Pentecost as "The Birthday of the Church."

No big deal, it's not that I have some dispute or problem with this, I just don't understand the rationale.

Can anyone explain?



- Josiah

Because that's the day that the Holy Spirit came upon/into the people who would be members of the Church and gave it life/power.

 

[Lamb]

Red is the liturgical color but at my previous church there was a guy who had a red sports coat for the occasion! LOL

 

[IACOBVS]

Red is the liturgical color but at my previous church there was a guy who had a red sports coat for the occasion! LOL

They gave us red flame-shaped pieces of paper to attach to our Sunday best today.

 

[IACOBVS]

Next year, I should go with something along these lines.

 

[Josiah]

Because that's the day that the Holy Spirit came upon/into the people who would be members of the Church and gave it life/power.

Thanks.... appreciated....

I guess I'm just not seeing how that's the BIRTHDAY of the church. The day POWER came into the church - yeah, but birthday? I guess I'm just not seeing it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Now, the LIFE issue, there I think I just disagree. I think faith existed before Pentecost, spiritual life was there before that. Abraham (who lived centuries before Pentecost) is called the "father of faith." Yes, the Holy Spirit gives live - but that didn't begin on Pentecost.

Not disagreeing with YOU, my friend! I appreciate your reply. Perhaps I'm just disagreeing with this claim that spiritual life - faith began that day.


Thanks!


- Josiah

 

[user1234]

Thanks.... appreciated....

I guess I'm just not seeing how that's the BIRTHDAY of the church. The day POWER came into the church - yeah, but birthday? I guess I'm just not seeing it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Now, the LIFE issue, there I think I just disagree. I think faith existed before Pentecost, spiritual life was there before that. Abraham (who lived centuries before Pentecost) is called the "father of faith." Yes, the Holy Spirit gives live - but that didn't begin on Pentecost.

Not disagreeing with YOU, my friend! I appreciate your reply. Perhaps I'm just disagreeing with this claim that spiritual life - faith began that day.


Thanks!


- Josiah

I never really considered it that much, as I'm not really into the whole liturgical calendar or the formalities ..... I'm not opposed to it, it's the style at one of the churches I attend, but it's not at the one I'd consider my home church, that is, my main one I attend.....

But I can understand why some ppl would say this was the Church's Birthday.
Although there were obviously believers long before, and ppl born-again and saved, perhaps they're seeing that as more of an individual thing, not really the 'Official Church' collectively.

But Jesus told them (the early disciples) to wait until they received power from on high. So during the wait, they could be considered 'a church' in the sense of being a body of believers (it was also during this time that the Apostles chose Matthias as a replacement to join them) but they hadn't yet received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and 'gone out', as far as taking the gospel to all the world goes.

Perhaps this could be considered a 'gestation' period.
(The Upper Womb?) (Ughhh, sorry)
But when the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, there was a sort of 'coming out' or a 'birthing' (again, ughhh) for want of a better way of putting it, and THE Church was born, the Gospel went out, spoken/heard in many languages/dialects, many ppl were saved and baptized and added to the numbers of believers .....

So yes, THE CHURCH was in a sense born that day, and has never stopped growing since then, praise the Lord, and let all the saints of the Lord shout Hallelujah and Amen!

 

[Wilhemena]

Because that's the day that the Holy Spirit came upon/into the people who would be members of the Church and gave it life/power.

Thank you for explaining that and in a sense it makes sense to say that is the birthday but do you think that the Jewish people who were already worshipping God have an issue with that since they would be thinking that they had been a part of God's church all along? I'm curious about that since Jesus did not come to make a new religion.

Now as for the colors of my church, indeed, there was red displayed to emulate the fire of the Holy Spirit and there are special songs we sung about the coming of the Holy Spirit and then with some years there were baptisms since Easter had ended.

 

[user1234]

do you think that the Jewish people who were already worshipping God have an issue with that since they would be thinking that they had been a part of God's church all along? I'm curious about that since Jesus did not come to make a new religion.

HI, Wilhemena !
I agree and tried to address that in post#11

The early Jewish believers had that family/cultural identity of being Jewish that already had them as a unique 'body' if you will, and then becoming saved 'christians' probably gave them a whole new feeling and reality of unity, so you're right that they probably already felt like 'the Church' ... But it was when the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost that THE CHURCH official and triumphant, is considered to have been born, at least, that's what many ppl today seem to agree on. I'm not sure if the first century Jewish Christians were saying. It sure must have been an exciting and somewhat crazy time in the beginning, though, and I sometimes think we could use some of that these days.
Not the persecution, of course, but the excitement about Jesus and being saved.

 

[Tigger]

Seems to me this is a key verse to look at

John 16:6-8 6Instead, your hearts are filled with sorrow because I have told you these things. 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:…