On the Bible and DIVORCE

[atpollard]

From another topic (moved to avoid derailing):

I can imagine why ezra wouldn't be accepted by a Lawfull Hebrew.
Its appalling that divorce and abandoning children would be acceptable.

[9. Ezra is informed that some of the Jews already in Jerusalem have married non-Jewish women. Ezra is appalled at this proof of sin, and prays to God: "O God of Israel, you are righteous! We are left this day as a remnant. Here we are before you in our guilt, though because of it not one of us can stand in your presence."10. Despite the opposition of some of their number, the Israelites assemble and send away their foreign wives and children.]

My first question is:

• When is a marriage really a marriage?

Let is examine the LAW of God in Israel in Ezra’s day. God forbade the Jews from marrying non-Jewish women (that is why Ezra was upset). So is a marriage forbidden by God really a marriage?

Let me ask the exact same question in a modern context. A man marries another man in Massachusetts. The man is later saved and renounces his former lifestyle. Is it sin for him to divorce his husband except for “unfaithfulness”? Was it NEVER a marriage because God never recognized it?

How is the born-again homosexual different from the rededicated Jew under Ezra?

 

[Josiah]

Atpollard -


I think you've opened quite a can of worms here (intentionally or not)....

MARRIAGE - I think there is a pretty solid consensus among all (but very liberal) Christians that "MARRIAGE" is a permanent union between one man and one woman. But can this be supported biblically (especially in the OT but even from the whole of the NT)? Does this reach back 2000 years? There I'm not so sure. I like that idea.... I totally buy into that.... and I suspect close to 100% of conservative, "BIBLE" Christians affirm that. Just not SURE you can make that case, clearly anyway, in history or in Scriptures. And yes, the idea of marrying one "outside the faith" USED to be forbidden in Christianity (even marrying one of another denomination was regarded as wrong by many until quite recently). Now, we seem to have no problem with that.

DIVORCE - In the OT, I think this was very accepted. And it was a major controversy in the Judaism of Jesus' day, a "hot" topic Jesus addresses. But I think this is clearer, I think in the NT, divorce is seen as always bad but PERMITTED in two cases - adultery and physical dessertion. And once divorced, no re-marriage. BUT here the "evolution" seems to be quite different than with marriage (which seems to be an evolution to stricter interpretations, here to wider). Today, marriage after divorce is generally accepted in Protestantism (common in Catholicism and Orthodoxy but officially denounced). And we tend to accept a LOT of reasons - not just the two the Bible talks about.


I'm interested to see where this goes....



.

 

[pinacled]

My first question is:

• When is a marriage really a marriage?

Let is examine the LAW of God in Israel in Ezra’s day. God forbade the Jews from marrying non-Jewish women (that is why Ezra was upset). So is a marriage forbidden by God really a marriage?

Let me ask the exact same question in a modern context. A man marries another man in Massachusetts. The man is later saved and renounces his former lifestyle. Is it sin for him to divorce his husband except for “unfaithfulness”? Was it NEVER a marriage because God never recognized it?

How is the born-again homosexual different from the rededicated Jew under Ezra?

Marriage is just as the Lord said it is.
When the union occurs the man and woman become one flesh.
The "Law of God" is unchanging.

So you'll have to provide scripture to prove "God forbade the Jews from marrying non-Jewish women "

Ill save you the trouble of work.
Ruth!

Blessings Always

 

[atpollard]

Ruth 1:6-18 [NKJV]

Then she arose with her daughters-in-law that she might return from the country of Moab, for she had heard in the country of Moab that the LORD had visited His people by giving them bread. Therefore she went out from the place where she was, and her two daughters-in-law with her; and they went on the way to return to the land of Judah. And Naomi said to her two daughters-in-law, "Go, return each to her mother's house. The LORD deal kindly with you, as you have dealt with the dead and with me. "The LORD grant that you may find rest, each in the house of her husband." So she kissed them, and they lifted up their voices and wept. And they said to her, "Surely we will return with you to your people."
11 But Naomi said, "Turn back, my daughters; why will you go with me? [Are] there still sons in my womb, that they may be your husbands? 12 "Turn back, my daughters, go--for I am too old to have a husband. If I should say I have hope, [if] I should have a husband tonight and should also bear sons, 13 "would you wait for them till they were grown? Would you restrain yourselves from having husbands? No, my daughters; for it grieves me very much for your sakes that the hand of the LORD has gone out against me!"​

​

Then they lifted up their voices and wept again; and Orpah kissed her mother-in-law, but Ruth clung to her.​

​

And she said, "Look, your sister-in-law has gone back to her people and to her gods; return after your sister-in-law."​

​

But Ruth said:​

"Entreat me not to leave you,​

Or to turn back from following after you;​

For wherever you go, I will go;​

And wherever you lodge, I will lodge;​

Your people shall be my people, ​

And your God, my God.​

​

Where you die, I will die,​

And there will I be buried.
The LORD do so to me, and more also,​

If anything but death parts you and me."​

When she saw that she was determined to go with her, she stopped speaking to her.​

• Ruth served God (in the covenant by the call of God).
  

Exodus 23:31-33 [NKJV]​

"And I will set your bounds from the Red Sea to the sea, Philistia, and from the desert to the River. For I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you. You shall make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. They shall not dwell in your land, lest they make you sin against Me. For if you serve their gods, it will surely be a snare to you."​

​

Deuteronomy 17:2-7 [NASB]​

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. "On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.​

​

Numbers 33:50-56 [NIV]​

On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. Destroy all their carved images and their cast idols, and demolish all their high places. Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. Distribute the land by lot, according to your clans. To a larger group give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group a smaller one. Whatever falls to them by lot will be theirs. Distribute it according to your ancestral tribes. 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them.'"​

​

• Purge the evil from your midst is a repeating theme in the Law.

​

​

​

​

 

[pinacled]

Ruth 1:6-18 [NKJV]

Then she arose with her daughters-in-law that she might return from the country of Moab, for she had heard in the country of Moab that the LORD had visited His people by giving them bread. Therefore she went out from the place where she was, and her two daughters-in-law with her; and they went on the way to return to the land of Judah. And Naomi said to her two daughters-in-law, "Go, return each to her mother's house. The LORD deal kindly with you, as you have dealt with the dead and with me. "The LORD grant that you may find rest, each in the house of her husband." So she kissed them, and they lifted up their voices and wept. And they said to her, "Surely we will return with you to your people."
11 But Naomi said, "Turn back, my daughters; why will you go with me? [Are] there still sons in my womb, that they may be your husbands? 12 "Turn back, my daughters, go--for I am too old to have a husband. If I should say I have hope, [if] I should have a husband tonight and should also bear sons, 13 "would you wait for them till they were grown? Would you restrain yourselves from having husbands? No, my daughters; for it grieves me very much for your sakes that the hand of the LORD has gone out against me!"​

​

Then they lifted up their voices and wept again; and Orpah kissed her mother-in-law, but Ruth clung to her.​

​

And she said, "Look, your sister-in-law has gone back to her people and to her gods; return after your sister-in-law."​

​

But Ruth said:​

"Entreat me not to leave you,​

Or to turn back from following after you;​

For wherever you go, I will go;​

And wherever you lodge, I will lodge;​

Your people shall be my people, ​

And your God, my God.​

​

Where you die, I will die,​

And there will I be buried.
The LORD do so to me, and more also,​

If anything but death parts you and me."​

When she saw that she was determined to go with her, she stopped speaking to her.​

• Ruth served God (in the covenant by the call of God).
  

Exodus 23:31-33 [NKJV]​

"And I will set your bounds from the Red Sea to the sea, Philistia, and from the desert to the River. For I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you. You shall make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. They shall not dwell in your land, lest they make you sin against Me. For if you serve their gods, it will surely be a snare to you."​

​

Deuteronomy 17:2-7 [NASB]​

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. "On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.​

​

Numbers 33:50-56 [NIV]​

On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. Destroy all their carved images and their cast idols, and demolish all their high places. Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. Distribute the land by lot, according to your clans. To a larger group give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group a smaller one. Whatever falls to them by lot will be theirs. Distribute it according to your ancestral tribes. 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them.'"​

​

• Purge the evil from your midst is a repeating theme in the Law.

​

​

​

​

Yet nothing in the Holy writ you cited forbids marrying non jews.

 

[pinacled]

Ruth 1:6-18 [NKJV]

Then she arose with her daughters-in-law that she might return from the country of Moab, for she had heard in the country of Moab that the LORD had visited His people by giving them bread. Therefore she went out from the place where she was, and her two daughters-in-law with her; and they went on the way to return to the land of Judah. And Naomi said to her two daughters-in-law, "Go, return each to her mother's house. The LORD deal kindly with you, as you have dealt with the dead and with me. "The LORD grant that you may find rest, each in the house of her husband." So she kissed them, and they lifted up their voices and wept. And they said to her, "Surely we will return with you to your people."
11 But Naomi said, "Turn back, my daughters; why will you go with me? [Are] there still sons in my womb, that they may be your husbands? 12 "Turn back, my daughters, go--for I am too old to have a husband. If I should say I have hope, [if] I should have a husband tonight and should also bear sons, 13 "would you wait for them till they were grown? Would you restrain yourselves from having husbands? No, my daughters; for it grieves me very much for your sakes that the hand of the LORD has gone out against me!"​

​

Then they lifted up their voices and wept again; and Orpah kissed her mother-in-law, but Ruth clung to her.​

​

And she said, "Look, your sister-in-law has gone back to her people and to her gods; return after your sister-in-law."​

​

But Ruth said:​

"Entreat me not to leave you,​

Or to turn back from following after you;​

For wherever you go, I will go;​

And wherever you lodge, I will lodge;​

Your people shall be my people, ​

And your God, my God.​

​

Where you die, I will die,​

And there will I be buried.
The LORD do so to me, and more also,​

If anything but death parts you and me."​

When she saw that she was determined to go with her, she stopped speaking to her.​

• Ruth served God (in the covenant by the call of God).
  

Exodus 23:31-33 [NKJV]​

"And I will set your bounds from the Red Sea to the sea, Philistia, and from the desert to the River. For I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you. You shall make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. They shall not dwell in your land, lest they make you sin against Me. For if you serve their gods, it will surely be a snare to you."​

​

Deuteronomy 17:2-7 [NASB]​

"If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. "On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.​

​

Numbers 33:50-56 [NIV]​

On the plains of Moab by the Jordan across from Jericho the LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you cross the Jordan into Canaan, drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. Destroy all their carved images and their cast idols, and demolish all their high places. Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess. Distribute the land by lot, according to your clans. To a larger group give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group a smaller one. Whatever falls to them by lot will be theirs. Distribute it according to your ancestral tribes. 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them.'"​

​

• Purge the evil from your midst is a repeating theme in the Law.

​

​

​

​

Pay attention with keen eyes and discern the lesson accounted by ezra.

Who suggested divorce was lawfull?
Answer: shechaniah

And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

4 Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.

 

[atpollard]

The devil is in the details.

Were they Godly wives being unjustly divorced by their husbands, or were they like Solomons wives leading them into idolatry?

I neither know or care (as I do not live under the Law, and they have already gone on to their Judge).
I merely object to the assumption that they did evil if scripture does not say that they did.

 

[pinacled]

The devil is in the details.

Were they Godly wives being unjustly divorced by their husbands, or were they like Solomons wives leading them into idolatry?

I neither know or care (as I do not live under the Law, and they have already gone on to their Judge).
I merely object to the assumption that they did evil if scripture does not say that they did.

Have you studied enough to realize that shechaniah speaking unlawfully for divorce is parallel to the golden calf incident?

 

[atpollard]

Have you studied enough to realize that shechaniah speaking unlawfully for divorce is parallel to the golden calf incident?

I can clearly quote the judgement of God against the "golden calf incident".
Please quote the judgement of God against "shechaniah speaking unlawfully for divorce" that we may be in agreement on the judgement of God.

 

[pinacled]

I can clearly quote the judgement of God against the "golden calf incident".
Please quote the judgement of God against "shechaniah speaking unlawfully for divorce" that we may be in agreement on the judgement of God.

The judgement is that they will not enter the promised land.

 

[atpollard]

The judgement is that they will not enter the promised land.

Verse please.

 

[pinacled]

Verse please.

Deuteronomy 1:35

 

[hedrick]

The Word commentary notes that while there is no prohibition against marrying foreigners, there are places that forbid marrying Caananites, because of the danger of taking up Canaanite religion. The list of nationalities of wives includes things beyond Caanan.

Furthermore, the wording of Ez 9:2 comes close to being racist. They note: "The concept of the seed of Abraham, elect by God as a “holy people” not because of any superiority but in order to be his servant for the blessing of the nations (e.g. Gen 12:1–3, 7; Deut 7:6–7) has now been twisted by the misapplication of a quite separate law into an idea of racial, as distinct from religious, separation. ... The description “holy seed” fits this explanation. Unlike the Deuteronomic “holy people,” it concentrates on the physcial transmission of holiness."

 

[pinacled]

The Word commentary notes that while there is no prohibition against marrying foreigners, there are places that forbid marrying Caananites, because of the danger of taking up Canaanite religion. The list of nationalities of wives includes things beyond Caanan.

Furthermore, the wording of Ez 9:2 comes close to being racist. They note: "The concept of the seed of Abraham, elect by God as a “holy people” not because of any superiority but in order to be his servant for the blessing of the nations (e.g. Gen 12:1–3, 7; Deut 7:6–7) has now been twisted by the misapplication of a quite separate law into an idea of racial, as distinct from religious, separation. ... The description “holy seed” fits this explanation. Unlike the Deuteronomic “holy people,” it concentrates on the physcial transmission of holiness."

Also these certain marriage forbidances have currently long since expired.

 

[atpollard]

Deuteronomy 1:35

[Deuteronomy 1:34-40 NASB]

34 "Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, 35 'Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and to his sons I will give the land on which he has set foot, because he has followed the LORD fully.' 37 "The LORD was angry with me also on your account, saying, 'Not even you shall enter there. 38 'Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there; encourage him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. 39 'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40 'But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.'​

I was looking for a clear condemnation of the proclamation of shechaniah "speaking unlawfully for divorce” by God in scripture.
The goal was to prove that GOD had condemned shechaniah, and Ezra contains unlawful teaching, so there could be no doubt that what Ezra did was wrong (in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of man) so that I could enthusiastically agree with you.

Deuteronomy 1:35 is not a condemnation of "shechaniah" or Ezra.
I will not claim a priest of God acted unlawfully if God has not declared it so.

 

[pinacled]

[Deuteronomy 1:34-40 NASB]

34 "Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, 35 'Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and to his sons I will give the land on which he has set foot, because he has followed the LORD fully.' 37 "The LORD was angry with me also on your account, saying, 'Not even you shall enter there. 38 'Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there; encourage him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. 39 'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40 'But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.'​

I was looking for a clear condemnation of the proclamation of shechaniah "speaking unlawfully for divorce” by God in scripture.
The goal was to prove that GOD had condemned shechaniah, and Ezra contains unlawful teaching, so there could be no doubt that what Ezra did was wrong (in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of man) so that I could enthusiastically agree with you.

Deuteronomy 1:35 is not a condemnation of "shechaniah" or Ezra.
I will not claim a priest of God acted unlawfully if God has not declared it so.

For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[pinacled]

Ezra the priest is giving an account of rulling just as iyov confronted adversity.
Shechaniah is likened to one of the friends of iyov that were punished for speaking uncouth.

 

[pinacled]

[Deuteronomy 1:34-40 NASB]

34 "Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, 35 'Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and to his sons I will give the land on which he has set foot, because he has followed the LORD fully.' 37 "The LORD was angry with me also on your account, saying, 'Not even you shall enter there. 38 'Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there; encourage him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. 39 'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40 'But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.'​

I was looking for a clear condemnation of the proclamation of shechaniah "speaking unlawfully for divorce” by God in scripture.
The goal was to prove that GOD had condemned shechaniah, and Ezra contains unlawful teaching, so there could be no doubt that what Ezra did was wrong (in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of man) so that I could enthusiastically agree with you.

Deuteronomy 1:35 is not a condemnation of "shechaniah" or Ezra.
I will not claim a priest of God acted unlawfully if God has not declared it so.

Ezra only mediated.
It is by council guidance from The Holy Spirit that a person concludes judgement.

A preist studied in Torah should understand the bitter guilt water of divorce were parchment is involved.

This particular terrain is difficult considering responsibility.
Halacha holds that the man is is the head of the woman.

So if a man divorces solely for the reason of national difference he commits adultry if the woman or himself remarries.

Excellent topic @pollard

 

[pinacled]

[Deuteronomy 1:34-40 NASB]

34 "Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, 35 'Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and to his sons I will give the land on which he has set foot, because he has followed the LORD fully.' 37 "The LORD was angry with me also on your account, saying, 'Not even you shall enter there. 38 'Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there; encourage him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. 39 'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. 40 'But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way to the Red Sea.'​

I was looking for a clear condemnation of the proclamation of shechaniah "speaking unlawfully for divorce” by God in scripture.
The goal was to prove that GOD had condemned shechaniah, and Ezra contains unlawful teaching, so there could be no doubt that what Ezra did was wrong (in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of man) so that I could enthusiastically agree with you.

Deuteronomy 1:35 is not a condemnation of "shechaniah" or Ezra.
I will not claim a priest of God acted unlawfully if God has not declared it so.

Ezra is an account similar to iyov(job) where only with study will judgement be revealed.
Iyov had 3 supposed friends that spoke untruthfully and were punished.
The same goes for shechaniah if you read further through the ketuvim(writings) .

Blessings Always

 

[pinacled]

Pay attention with keen eyes and discern the lesson accounted by ezra.

Who suggested divorce was lawfull?
Answer: shechaniah

And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, one of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

3 Now therefore let us make a covenant with our God to put away all the wives, and such as are born of them, according to the counsel of my lord, and of those that tremble at the commandment of our God; and let it be done according to the law.

4 Arise; for this matter belongeth unto thee: we also will be with thee: be of good courage, and do it.

וְאֵ֣ין הָעָ֗ם מַכִּירִים֙ ק֚וֹל תְּרוּעַ֣ת הַשִּׂמְחָ֔ה לְק֖וֹל בְּכִ֣י הָעָ֑ם כִּ֣י הָעָ֗ם מְרִיעִים֙ תְּרוּעָ֣ה גְדוֹלָ֔ה וְהַקּ֥וֹל נִשְׁמַ֖ע עַד־לְמֵרָחֽוֹק׃ {פ}
The people could not distinguish the shouts of joy from the people’s weeping, for the people raised a great shout, the sound of which could be heard from afar.]

Take note that there is a future where there is no weeping or confusion.