SetFree
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I noticed some brethren show confusion about the idea of the vessels of wrath like Apostle Paul was describing in Romans 9. One must be very careful in understanding Paul there, and it requires keeping the flow of the Chapter...
Rom 9:1-24
9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Apostle Paul of course was concerned for his brethren the Jews that still rejected Jesus Christ as The Messiah, even to the point that he said he wished that he himself was "accursed from Christ for my brethren".
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The above is difficult for many to understand, especially if they have not done their homework in The Old Testament Books. On the one hand, Paul says the idea of Israel isn't about flesh seed, but about the Promise (Gospel of Jesus Christ). On the other hand, Paul points to the literal seed of Isaac. What's it mean?
Got to understand what Paul means by "the children of the promise" first. God first gave The Promise by Faith (i.e., the Gospel of Jesus Christ) through Abraham. Abraham believed God and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. In Galatians 3 Paul reveals ALL those of Faith have thus become the children of Abraham, even regardless of flesh birth.
The new name Israel was given to Jacob to represent that Promise by Faith, as it was passed down to Abraham's son Isaac, and then to Isaac's son Jacob. Thus the name ISRAEL is hard-tied to The Gospel Promise by Faith on Jesus Christ. And it involved God's Birthright to the Seed of the Woman which He chose to use to take that Gospel Promise to all nations and peoples, regardless of birth.
Thus the true ISRAEL of God is based not on flesh seed, but on that Gospel Promise of Jesus Christ. The chosen seed God chose to be caretakers of the Promise serve as tools, and not as the end in itself. This is why Paul would point to the 'seed' chosen to represent the Promise, while God's true Israel as His Planned Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ isn't actually about the saving of a certain flesh seed, but for all those who believe.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
The verses simply reveal that God had chosen as certain seed to be caretaker of The Gospel Promise until the time would come when Christ would be born and die on the cross for all peoples who believe. Esau was the firstborn of Isaac, but he profaned God's Birthright, and thus God's Birthright went to Jacob. God's Birthright included The Gospel Promise, and with Jacob it continued on to his son Joseph and then Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where that Gospel Promise is still in care of to this day (a deeper matter, yet a prophetic Scriptural one).
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God That sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
KJV
Trying to apply the above in a simple saved vs. unsaved category doesn't really work, because there also is this...
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV
How is it that many brethren are so ready to condemn the vessels fitted for God's wrath? especially when it is God's desire that all... should come to repentance?
1 Tim 2:1-6
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
KJV
What happened in the days of Moses with Pharaoh and his army chasing them and perishing in the Red Sea was to show God's wrath upon vessels fitting for destruction. But Lord Jesus Christ had not come to die on the cross back then. And when Jesus was raised, Apostle Peter showed that Jesus in His quickened Spirit body went to the "spirits in prison" who had died back to the time of Noah, and preached The Gospel to them. The Isaiah 42:7 prophecy was about that, Jesus leading those that believed out of the darkness of that heavenly prison house.
So might Pharaoh and his army have been saved when Jesus preached to those "spirits in prison"? Yes, of course, very possible.
Thus we should NOT confuse events of THIS PRESENT WORLD where God uses some in a negative working of His Plan of Salvation, in order to show His Power and Glory. No soul has been Judged in final to go into the future "lake of fire" just yet; for only the devil and his angels have so far.
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon is a major example of one of God's vessels of wrath, ordained for the purpose of punishing the children of Israel for their falling away from Him. Ol' Neb was haughty, claimed to be a God, and when God finished using Neb, He assigned Neb to live as animal with the animals. (the disease of Boanthropy). When Neb came out of that diseased state, he praised God. The whole Daniel 4 Chapter was thus written by Nebuchadnezzar. And God even called Nebuchadnezzar His servant.
Rom 9:1-24
9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Apostle Paul of course was concerned for his brethren the Jews that still rejected Jesus Christ as The Messiah, even to the point that he said he wished that he himself was "accursed from Christ for my brethren".
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The above is difficult for many to understand, especially if they have not done their homework in The Old Testament Books. On the one hand, Paul says the idea of Israel isn't about flesh seed, but about the Promise (Gospel of Jesus Christ). On the other hand, Paul points to the literal seed of Isaac. What's it mean?
Got to understand what Paul means by "the children of the promise" first. God first gave The Promise by Faith (i.e., the Gospel of Jesus Christ) through Abraham. Abraham believed God and God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. In Galatians 3 Paul reveals ALL those of Faith have thus become the children of Abraham, even regardless of flesh birth.
The new name Israel was given to Jacob to represent that Promise by Faith, as it was passed down to Abraham's son Isaac, and then to Isaac's son Jacob. Thus the name ISRAEL is hard-tied to The Gospel Promise by Faith on Jesus Christ. And it involved God's Birthright to the Seed of the Woman which He chose to use to take that Gospel Promise to all nations and peoples, regardless of birth.
Thus the true ISRAEL of God is based not on flesh seed, but on that Gospel Promise of Jesus Christ. The chosen seed God chose to be caretakers of the Promise serve as tools, and not as the end in itself. This is why Paul would point to the 'seed' chosen to represent the Promise, while God's true Israel as His Planned Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ isn't actually about the saving of a certain flesh seed, but for all those who believe.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
The verses simply reveal that God had chosen as certain seed to be caretaker of The Gospel Promise until the time would come when Christ would be born and die on the cross for all peoples who believe. Esau was the firstborn of Isaac, but he profaned God's Birthright, and thus God's Birthright went to Jacob. God's Birthright included The Gospel Promise, and with Jacob it continued on to his son Joseph and then Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh, where that Gospel Promise is still in care of to this day (a deeper matter, yet a prophetic Scriptural one).
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God That sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
KJV
Trying to apply the above in a simple saved vs. unsaved category doesn't really work, because there also is this...
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV
How is it that many brethren are so ready to condemn the vessels fitted for God's wrath? especially when it is God's desire that all... should come to repentance?
1 Tim 2:1-6
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
KJV
What happened in the days of Moses with Pharaoh and his army chasing them and perishing in the Red Sea was to show God's wrath upon vessels fitting for destruction. But Lord Jesus Christ had not come to die on the cross back then. And when Jesus was raised, Apostle Peter showed that Jesus in His quickened Spirit body went to the "spirits in prison" who had died back to the time of Noah, and preached The Gospel to them. The Isaiah 42:7 prophecy was about that, Jesus leading those that believed out of the darkness of that heavenly prison house.
So might Pharaoh and his army have been saved when Jesus preached to those "spirits in prison"? Yes, of course, very possible.
Thus we should NOT confuse events of THIS PRESENT WORLD where God uses some in a negative working of His Plan of Salvation, in order to show His Power and Glory. No soul has been Judged in final to go into the future "lake of fire" just yet; for only the devil and his angels have so far.
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon is a major example of one of God's vessels of wrath, ordained for the purpose of punishing the children of Israel for their falling away from Him. Ol' Neb was haughty, claimed to be a God, and when God finished using Neb, He assigned Neb to live as animal with the animals. (the disease of Boanthropy). When Neb came out of that diseased state, he praised God. The whole Daniel 4 Chapter was thus written by Nebuchadnezzar. And God even called Nebuchadnezzar His servant.