Jesus and Hair

[Josiah]

Disclosure: I have no beard. This reality has NOTHING to do with morality or culture or fashion or even desire. It has to do with the reality that I don't have much body hair period (and what I have is blonde and so doesn't show up much). I didn't "shave" at all until I was maybe 18, and even then to remove "fuss" not anything remotely related to a "beard." It's still mostly that. And while I had pretty long blonde hair as a kid and teen, I began cutting it fairly short around that same age, 18.

But what about JESUS? The Bible says NOTHING about a beard or long hair, but we tend to envision Him that way. The early church did not, He is NOT ONCE portrayed as having a beard or long hair until the 6th Century, and that in the East, not West. But eventually, that image became standard (although the length of the hair and beard constantly varies widely).

I can't image why it matters a bit, but what thinkest thou?



http://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/did-jesus-have-a-beard/
http://opentheword.org/2014/10/07/did-jesus-have-a-beard/






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[Stravinsk]

Book of Numbers, chapter 6.

 

[Josiah]

Book of Numbers, chapter 6.

Of course, there's nothing that remotely indicates that Jesus took the Nazirite vow.

 

[Stravinsk]

Of course, there's nothing that remotely indicates that Jesus took the Nazirite vow.

Nazareth was just an arbitrary name of a town then. Matthew 2:21-23. Jesus wasn't a Nazirite by definition, just by association with the name of the town He was brought up in.

Woe to Jesus, who was just associated with the name of a town chosen arbitrarily. Too bad He didn't fulfill this part of the law, if that is the case. If He didn't fulfill this law, He only completed part of the law. Which means of course, that the Messiah you worship fell short.

Except - He did. Yeshua had long hair. He took the vows that Saul/Paul couldn't meet in Acts, and actually fulfilled them. If you think Numbers 6 has no connection to Messiah, you need to look again.

 

[Lamb]

As Josiah said, scripture doesn't state Jesus took the Nazirite vow. He was born in Bethlehem so wasn't a true Nazarene anyway.

 

[Stravinsk]

As Josiah said, scripture doesn't state Jesus took the Nazirite vow. He was born in Bethlehem so wasn't a true Nazarene anyway.

I suggest reading Numbers 6. If this has nothing to do with Messiah, then the "Jesus" being worshiped is someone else. Someone who didn't come to fulfill the law and prophets.

 

[Alithis]

i read numbers 6 again ..

firstly i have no idea of one thing . why the topic ? we might as well discuss admas belly button .. how is it edifying how is it aiding us in being deciples and walking in obedience to the lord ?
did the lord Jesus sport long hair .. ? unlikely im told due to the customs of the day which made strong distinction between men and womans hair.
So some say "perhaps" he took nazarite vow .. this too is highly unlikely in light of the other restrivtion on a nazrite vow taker .. one being he can't drink or eat any part of the grape .. so the lord would have been a bit of a poor vow keeper (which we know he is not ) .
And the law of the nazarite is stressed with an "IF" ... - If any of the people, either men or women, take the special vow of a Nazirite so there was no obligation to take one -it is voluntary . So he would not be failing to fulfill the law by not doing so would he ?

The main reason there is no specific description given to us of him, other then he was of plain appearance with nothing to make us look twice .so to speak .. Imo, is simply this .
.-if we had a description of him.. we would make images of him and worship the image instead of "HIm" ... i mean mankind has managed to make that error without any distinct description of him ,how much worse it would be if we had one .

 

[Stravinsk]

If Yeshua did not take the Nazirite vow, then He did not fulfill all the law and prophets.

Is there anywhere in the Gospels where Yeshua drinks wine or eats grapes? Even at the last supper He vows He will *not* drink from the vine until He drinks it anew in Heaven.

The vow of a Nazirite is what James asked Saul/Paul to go through to show he was preaching the law. Saul/Paul was kicked out the temple before he completed it.

 

[Alithis]

If Yeshua did not take the Nazirite vow, then He did not fulfill all the law and prophets.

Is there anywhere in the Gospels where Yeshua drinks wine or eats grapes? Even at the last supper He vows He will *not* drink from the vine until He drinks it anew in Heaven.

The vow of a Nazirite is what James asked Saul/Paul to go through to show he was preaching the law. Saul/Paul was kicked out the temple before he completed it.

good Q ..let me look into it

edit - ok i did .. i think there is enough to question your thoughts on it in this case . he does not specifically say he has "never " partaken but that he will not ever do so again UNTIL the marriage supper of the lamb

 

[Josiah]

double post, sorry

 

[Josiah]

Is there anywhere in the Gospels where Yeshua drinks wine or eats grapes? Even at the last supper He vows He will *not* drink from the vine until He drinks it anew in Heaven.

The verse you reference does not say He did not drink of the wine. I agree, it doesn't SPECIFICALLY state that He did, but nor does it state that He did not.

There is no verse that states, "Jesus drank no wine."

No verse that remotely indicates Jesus took the vow spoken of in Numbers 6.

Not drinking wine does not prove one took the vow mentioned in Numbers 6. I know some folks who don't drink alcoholic drinks AT ALL but NONE of them took that vow.




Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Stravinsk]

The verse you reference does not say He did not drink of the wine. I agree, it doesn't SPECIFICALLY state that He did, but nor does it state that He did not.

There is no verse that states, "Jesus drank no wine."

These kinds of arguments are silly. Christ lived for 33 years, and we have only a small snippet of the last 3 years plus the birth. You can't assume a positive where there is not a specific negative. It's like saying "Jesus must have eaten sourdough bread, because there is not one verse that says he didn't." <--- please keep in mind that those words in quotes aren't yours, they are used as an example of the type of argument you are making, not a direct quote, lest any confusion happen like last time

No verse that remotely indicates Jesus took the vow spoken of in Numbers 6.

How about these ones:

John 5:46 - Moses wrote about Messiah. Who wrote Numbers? Moses.
Matthew 5:17-18 - Is Numbers 6 part of the law and prophets that Messiah came to fulfill? If so, then in some way Messiah must have fulfilled them

There doesn't need to be a specific verse that says "Christ took the Nazirite vow" to know that He did - IF you believe that He fulfilled all the law and prophets. That Jesus comes from Nazareth or that he will be called a Nazarene is no mere coincidence. What do you think - God inspired Moses to write Numbers 6 which indicates a special separation for dedication purposes to God only to have Jesus NOT do it, but instead only refer to the vow as a place where Messiah lived at one time - the name of a town and that's it?

Not drinking wine does not prove one took the vow mentioned in Numbers 6. I know some folks who don't drink alcoholic drinks AT ALL but NONE of them took that vow.




Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah

No, it doesn't. But if you believe Numbers 6 is Scripture, part of the law that Messiah came to fulfill - then it logically follows that Messiah must have fulfilled it in some way.

If you DON'T believe this - then either Numbers 6 has nothing to do with Messiah and when Messiah said He came to fulfill the law and prophets he should have amended ("except for Numbers 6")

Btw - I'll mention this again. The Nazirite vow is the vow James asks Saul/Paul to do in Acts - to prove that Paul is not teaching against the law. Saul/Paul fails it miserably.

 

[Josiah]

These kinds of arguments are silly. Christ lived for 33 years, and we have only a small snippet of the last 3 years plus the birth. You can't assume a positive where there is not a specific negative. It's like saying "Jesus must have eaten sourdough bread, because there is not one verse that says he didn't." <--- please keep in mind that those words in quotes aren't yours, they are used as an example of the type of argument you are making, not a direct quote, lest any confusion happen like last time

YOU are the one dogmatically insisting that Jesus drank no alcoholic beverage BECAUSE (you claim) Scripture never specifically says that He did. MY statement was that the verse you quote (obviously) does NOT say "Jesus never drank."

How about these ones:

John 5:46 - Moses wrote about Messiah. Who wrote Numbers? Moses.
Matthew 5:17-18 - Is Numbers 6 part of the law and prophets that Messiah came to fulfill? If so, then in some way Messiah must have fulfilled them

There doesn't need to be a specific verse that says "Christ took the Nazirite vow" to know that He did - IF you believe that He fulfilled all the law and prophets. That Jesus comes from Nazareth or that he will be called a Nazarene is no mere coincidence. What do you think - God inspired Moses to write Numbers 6 which indicates a special separation for dedication purposes to God only to have Jesus NOT do it, but instead only refer to the vow as a place where Messiah lived at one time - the name of a town and that's it?

Jesus fulfilled the moral law. The regulations concerning the Nazirite Vow is ceremonial and only applies to those who took that vow. You are ASSUMING Jesus took the vow.... then defending it by saying He fullfilled the law. It's backwards, circular. There is nothing that states Jesus took any vows at all.

No, it doesn't. But if you believe Numbers 6 is Scripture, part of the law that Messiah came to fulfill - then it logically follows that Messiah must have fulfilled it in some way.

It's not "logical" or stated. Jesus fulled the law, not all the ceremonial regulations concerning things that only applied to a tiny few.

If you DON'T believe this - then either Numbers 6 has nothing to do with Messiah and when Messiah said He came to fulfill the law and prophets he should have amended ("except for Numbers 6")

The ceremonial regulations concerning those very few who took the Nazirite vow applies to those very few who took the Nazirite vow. Unless you can prove Jesus did that, then it didn't apply to Him. And unless you can prove that the Messiah was mandated to take that vow, it does not apply to the Messiah.





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