If the Law says not to communicate with the dead, then why did Jesus talk to Moses and Elijah?

[NathanH83]

I understand that Elijah never died, but Moses did. So how is Jesus not disobeying the law when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the Mount of transfiguration?

 

[Spindle4]

I understand that Elijah never died, but Moses did. So how is Jesus not disobeying the law when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the Mount of transfiguration?

Don't forget He raised Lazarus too.

You make my case that mediums and spiritists can't do what God can. There was no calling up of the dead involved in the Transfiguration, which Jesus Himself called a vision (Gr. orama)

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

The means, methods, and motives of the unrighteous bring defilement.

2Co 6:14-18 Don’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? (15) What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever? (16) What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (17) Therefore “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you. (18) I will be to you a Father. You will be to me sons and daughters,’ says the Lord Almighty.”

 

[Andrew]

The dead are actually very active in the bible, Abel was calling out for vengeance from the grave, same for the martyrs in Revelation, Samuel to Saul, Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus says that some of the dead will hear his voice and follow him before and after his resurrection, Peter affirms this, Jesus told the dying man on the cross that he will be with him in paradise that day... the bible is a little spooky, after all it was inspired by a Holy GHOST!!

 

[atpollard]

Jesus doesn’t speak with the DEAD, Jesus brings them back to life to talk with them.
The dead do talk with God … it’s a spirit to spirit thing.

[Luke 20:38] "Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

 

[NathanH83]

Don't forget He raised Lazarus too.

You make my case that mediums and spiritists can't do what God can. There was no calling up of the dead involved in the Transfiguration, which Jesus Himself called a vision (Gr. orama)

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

The means, methods, and motives of the unrighteous bring defilement.

2Co 6:14-18 Don’t be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? (15) What agreement has Christ with Belial? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever? (16) What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, “I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (17) Therefore “‘Come out from among them, and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you. (18) I will be to you a Father. You will be to me sons and daughters,’ says the Lord Almighty.”

I didn’t make your case. Jesus literally spoke with Moses and Elijah, and Saul literally spoke with Samuel. Nothing I’ve said has made your case.

 

[NathanH83]

Jesus doesn’t speak with the DEAD, Jesus brings them back to life to talk with them.
The dead do talk with God … it’s a spirit to spirit thing.

[Luke 20:38] "Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."

But Moses died. Didn’t you read the question?

 

[atpollard]

But Moses died. Didn’t you read the question?

When you die … and I assume that you will one day … will you be dead or alive? (It is an eternal question).

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” - John 11:25-26

“And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.” - Mark 12:26-27

 

[NathanH83]

When you die … and I assume that you will one day … will you be dead or alive? (It is an eternal question).

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” - John 11:25-26

“And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.” - Mark 12:26-27

I don’t think you understand my question

 

[Lamb]

I thought the verses say to not "consult" with the dead? Jesus didn't make inquiries of the dead like mediums or psychics try to do. Jesus is God, so talking to Moses wasn't committing any sin.

 

[NathanH83]

I thought the verses say to not "consult" with the dead? Jesus didn't make inquiries of the dead like mediums or psychics try to do. Jesus is God, so talking to Moses wasn't committing any sin.

Or maybe the point is just not to do it by means of witchcraft and demonic conjurings.

 

[Lamb]

Or maybe the point is just not to do it by means of witchcraft and demonic conjurings.

Or we can trust that Jesus did not disobey the law in any way since the Bible says so.

 

[atpollard]

I don’t think you understand my question

I understood your question, you did not understand my answer.

Abraham is not dead.
Isaac is not dead.
Jacob is not dead.
Moses is not dead.
(all three died, but they are not dead … even Jesus died but is not dead.)

THEREFORE, Jesus can speak with Moses and be speaking with the living and not the dead.

 

[atpollard]

I understand that Elijah never died, but Moses did. So how is Jesus not disobeying the law when he spoke with Moses and Elijah on the Mount of transfiguration?

Since you were not satisfied with my previous answer, let’s try this:

What, EXACTLY, does this Law that you are concerned about say?

 

[NathanH83]

I understood your question, you did not understand my answer.

Abraham is not dead.
Isaac is not dead.
Jacob is not dead.
Moses is not dead.
(all three died, but they are not dead … even Jesus died but is not dead.)

THEREFORE, Jesus can speak with Moses and be speaking with the living and not the dead.

Yea, Samuel isn’t dead either. Though he died, his spirit is alive with Abraham. But Saul was still disobedient contacting the witch to call him up. Hence my question about Jesus talking with Moses.

 

[atpollard]

What, EXACTLY, does this Law that you are concerned about say?

But Saul was still disobedient contacting the witch to call him up.

Leviticus 19:31 [NASB95]

“Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.”​

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 [NASB95]

"When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so.”​

​

Did Saul do what God had forbidden?
Did Jesus do what God had forbidden?
Once again, what EXACTLY does the Law forbid?

 

[NathanH83]

Leviticus 19:31 [NASB95]

“Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.”​

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 [NASB95]

"When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so.”​

​

Did Saul do what God had forbidden?
Did Jesus do what God had forbidden?
Once again, what EXACTLY does the Law forbid?

So it’s still ok to talk to the dead, but just not by means of witchcraft? Is that what you’re saying?

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Leviticus 19:31 [NASB95]

“Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.”​

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 [NASB95]

"When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so.”​

​

Did Saul do what God had forbidden?

Yes, because he went to the medium to try communicating with Samuel in violation of both verses above.

Did Jesus do what God had forbidden?

No, because that would have been a sin, and Jesus is without sin (Hebrews 4:15).

Once again, what EXACTLY does the Law forbid?

I don't think I can describe it better than the verses above, though I might be able to summarize it as that God forbids all non-Christian worship and forbids all dabbling in the occult, and that would also include Ouija boards, water witching, etc.

 

[atpollard]

So it’s still ok to talk to the dead, but just not by means of witchcraft? Is that what you’re saying?

No.
I am saying that the Bible Says that it is NOT OK to use ‘witchcraft’ to talk with the dead.
The LAW which I quoted does not speak to whether or not it is “OK” to speak with the dead without witchcraft.
You will need to keep searching SCRIPTURE for an answer to that question.

(Jesus did not use witchcraft … to answer the question in the OP … so Jesus did not violate the Law.)
Jesus also forgave sin.
We can do some things that Jesus did, and we cannot do other things that Jesus did.

Why do you want to talk to the dead?