Christ's Furthest Ancestor

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)

A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from already
created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as much
the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's posterity
just as much as they would be hers because every part of the posterity's bodies--
including their brains --would be constructed with material taken from their
mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed with material taken from Adam's
body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her
seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen 3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage predicted
Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so, then
he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily parts and
functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused by
conception.

• Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name
him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed would
have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the slightest hint of
sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological posterity of Eve's
body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the origin of Mary's seed; and
if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's body.
_

 

[Stravinsk]

Good points

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: Can it be known for certain whether Jesus' mom was biologically related to
David?

A: Yes; very easily.

First off: David is said to be Jesus' ancestor.

• Luke 1:32 . . He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and
the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.

Now, a clever sophist could construe that verse to mean Jesus was David's
descendant by some other means besides biologically; however the Bible also says:

• Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a bit
ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny;
for example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's seed is biological because
it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

Seeing as how Joseph wasn't Jesus' biological father, then we're left with Jesus'
mom as the default path of Jesus' flesh to David's flesh.

Also:

• Acts 2:30 . .Therefore [David] being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Greek words for "according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ" are not in the manuscripts. The KJV's editors took the liberty to pencil them into their English translation.

However, Greek words for "fruit of his loins" are in the manuscript. Those are reinforced by the wording of the oath at 2Sam 7:12 where again David's seed is clearly implied to be physical rather than spiritual.

See also Psalm 132:11 where it's said: The Lord has sworn to David, a truth from which He will not turn back: "Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne."

NOTE: The Bible says: "It is clear that our Lord arose from Judah, and in regard to that tribe, etc. (Heb 7:14)

Throughout the Bible, it is normally the biological father's side of the family that determines a child's tribal identity, but in Jesus' case there was no biological father. So tribal determination defaulted to his biological mother's side.

Mary's situation was unusual but not unbiblical. Inheritance via women became an expedient back in Num 27:1-8.

Jesus' mom is sometimes alleged to be a member of Levi's tribe due to her association with Elizabeth (Luke 1:5 and Luke 1:36). However, Levi and Judah were brothers, i.e. both men were Leah's sons (Gen 29:34-35). So then Mary and Elizabeth were cousins due to their association with the same grandma rather than with the same tribe.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
• 1Cor 15:45 . . The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving
spirit.

On numerous occasions, Jesus identified himself as "son of man" which is an identity
that the original Adam could never pin on himself because he wasn't a previous man's
progeny.

In the same vein, if Jesus is truly an Adam, then he too should not be able to identify
himself as a son of man because as an Adam he would not be a previous man's
progeny.

In other words: both the original Adam and the last Adam are the beginners of their kind
instead of more of their kind.

Ergo: when Jesus says he is the son of man, he is saying that he is more of his kind
rather than the beginner of his kind; otherwise the normal concept of a "son" as
someone's offspring has no rational significance in the real world.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
Most Christians readily attest that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully Man, when in
reality they believe he's mostly God and only partially Man.

• 1Cor 15:22 . . In Adam all die

Had not Christ been executed, he would've eventually died of old age just like
everybody else because Rom 5:12-14 applied to him due to his biological
connection to Adam; which actually works to our advantage.

• Heb 2:14-17 . . Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their
humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--
that is, the devil --and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their
fear of death.

. . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this reason
he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a
merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make
atonement for the sins of the people.

In other words: Jesus' body wasn't superhuman, i.e. immortal. Prior to his
resurrection, Jesus' body was just as mortal as those of his friends. In point of fact,
it was essential that his body be mortal so he could die for them.

And also, he would not be a true kinsman had his body been immortal. A man
who's never himself walked thru the valley of the shadow of death cannot possibly
be the kind of priest that we can all relate to, viz: he could be a priest, but certainly
not a compassionate priest whom we can trust with our deepest feelings.
_

 

[JRT]

We must make a distinction between the real human person of Jesus and the various titles we have given him. "Christ" is a Greek word meaning "anointed one" which is how the Hebrew word "Messiah" translates. There were many Messiahs in the history of Judaism. The best we can say is that the title of Messiah was bestowed on Jesus in the first century AD. The term itself was first used with King David about 1000 BC. As for the furthest ancestor of Jesus, well that depends on how far back you want to go

 

[pinacled]

We must make a distinction between the real human person of Jesus and the various titles we have given him. "Christ" is a Greek word meaning "anointed one" which is how the Hebrew word "Messiah" translates. There were many Messiahs in the history of Judaism. The best we can say is that the title of Messiah was bestowed on Jesus in the first century AD. The term itself was first used with King David about 1000 BC. As for the furthest ancestor of Jesus, well that depends on how far back you want to go

Incorrect.
The word messiah implies echad(one). emed eret brit.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The genealogy given in the gospel of Luke is sometimes appropriated to establish
Mary's biological connection with David, and subsequently Adam, but I don't
recommend that route because the language and grammar of Luke 3:23 is much
too controversial.

Along with the language and grammar issue; there's a serious question about the
listings of Shealtiel and Zerubbabel. In Matthew's genealogy, the two men are
linked to David via Solomon. In Luke's genealogy, they're linked to David via
Solomon's brother Nathan.

Their respective descendants are different too. Zerubbabel's son is listed as Abihud
in Matthew's genealogy, whereas his son is listed as Rhesa in Luke's.

Unfortunately, to date there exists no consensus among the experts how best to
resolve the confusion caused by the presence of Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in both
genealogies. Were we scientific in our thinking; we'd have to consider the data
compromised; which I do, and which is why I avoid using Luke's to prove that Mary
was biologically related to David.

NOTE: It's been suggested that Shealtiel and Zerubbabel are common names so we
shouldn't be surprised to find them listed in both genealogies. However, they are
listed as father and son in both genealogies, which we cannot expect reasonable
people to accept as mere coincidence.
_

 

[JRT]

GENEOLOGIES OF JESUS

1 Chronicles 3:5-19..Matthew 1: 1-17..Luke 3: 23-38
David 1004-965...........David......................David
Solomon 965-928........Solomon..................Nathan
Rehoboam 928-911.....Rehoboam...............Mattatha
Abijah 911-908............Abijah.....................Menna
Asa 908-867.................Asa.........................Melea
Jehoshaphat 867-846....Jehoshaphat...........Eliakim
Joram 846-843..............Joram.....................Jonam
Ahaziah 843-842.........................................Joseph **
Joash 837-798.............................................Judah **
Amaziah 798-769.......................................Simeon **
Azariah......................…Uzziah (Azariah)..Levi **
Jotham 741-733............ Jotham..................Matthat
Ahaz 733-727................Ahaz......................Jorim
Hezekiah 727-698..........Hezekiah...............
Manasseh 698-642.........Manasseh..............
Amon 641-640...............Amos (Amon)…...
Josiah 639-609...............Josiah....................Eliezer
Jehoiakim 608-598......................................Jesus
Jeconiah.........................Jeconiah *.............Er
.......................***** the exile *****..................
......................................Elmadam...................
......................................Cosam.......................
......................................Addi..........................
......................................Melchi.......................
......................................Neri...........................
Shealtiel.........................Salathiel.................Salathiel
Zerubbabel....................Zerubbabel.............Zerubbabel
.....................................Abiud......................Rhesa
.....................................Eliakim....................Joanan
.....................................Azor.........................Joda
.....................................Zadok.......................Josech
.....................................Achim......................Semien
.....................................Eliud........................Mattathias
.....................................Eleazar.....................Maath
.....................................Matthan....................Naggai
.......................................................................Esli
.......................................................................Nahum
......................................................................Amos
......................................................................Mattathias
......................................................................Joseph
......................................................................Jannai
.........................................................…..........Melchi
.......................................................................Levi
.......................................................................Matthat
.....................................Jacob....................….Heli
.....................................Joseph.......................Joseph
Notes:
* childless! See Jer 22: 30
** not used as personal names till after the exile

 

[Pilgrim]

.
FAQ: How was Christ biologically related to Adam without having a biological
father? (Luke 1:26-34)

A: The woman wasn't a discreet creation, i.e. Eve wasn't a solo specimen
constructed directly from dust like Adam was; instead, Eve was made from already
created human material taken from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22)

In other words: chemically, organically, and biologically; Eve was just as much
the Man as Adam; except of course for gender. (Gen 2:23)

So then, any posterity that Eve's body might engender would be Adam's posterity
just as much as they would be hers because every part of the posterity's bodies--
including their brains --would be constructed with material taken from their
mother's body; which was, in turn, constructed with material taken from Adam's
body.

Addressing the Serpent, God said:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her
seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." (Gen 3:15)

Pretty much everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that passage predicted
Christ.

"her seed" indicates that Christ would be Eve's biological posterity; and if so, then
he would also be Adam's biological posterity because all of Eve's bodily parts and
functions were constructed of material taken from Adam's body.

There's more.

Mary's pregnancy is stated to be caused not by an implant, rather, caused by
conception.

• Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name
him Jesus.

In order for Mary's pregnancy to be the result of conception, her body's seed would
have to be involved. Well, unless someone can prove beyond the slightest hint of
sensible doubt that Mary's body was in no way the biological posterity of Eve's
body, then we have to conclude that Eve's seed was the origin of Mary's seed; and
if so, then the origin of Mary's seed was Adam's body.
_

There is also the point of marriage in how God has joined Joseph & the pregnant Mary as one flesh. It is more than likely by marriage to Joseph was how Jesus was also of Joseph's lineage as outlined in Matthew 1st chapter rather than by Joseph's actual seed, whereas Mary's genealogy in Luke 3:23-38 in Heli being her father for how her genealogy traced back to Adam, briefly mentioning Joseph's as the supposed father of Jesus in verse 23. Luke the physician would be writing the genealogy from the woman's father whereas Matthew, the tax collector, from the head of the household paying taxes is how one wishes to avoid the arguments for why the 2 genealogy do not match or align.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Origen]

GENEOLOGIES OF JESUS

1 Chronicles 3:5-19..Matthew 1: 1-17..Luke 3: 23-38
David 1004-965...........David......................David
Solomon 965-928........Solomon..................Nathan
Rehoboam 928-911.....Rehoboam...............Mattatha
Abijah 911-908............Abijah.....................Menna
Asa 908-867.................Asa.........................Melea
Jehoshaphat 867-846....Jehoshaphat...........Eliakim
Joram 846-843..............Joram.....................Jonam
Ahaziah 843-842.........................................Joseph **
Joash 837-798.............................................Judah **
Amaziah 798-769.......................................Simeon **
Azariah......................…Uzziah (Azariah)..Levi **
Jotham 741-733............ Jotham..................Matthat
Ahaz 733-727................Ahaz......................Jorim
Hezekiah 727-698..........Hezekiah...............
Manasseh 698-642.........Manasseh..............
Amon 641-640...............Amos (Amon)…...
Josiah 639-609...............Josiah....................Eliezer
Jehoiakim 608-598......................................Jesus
Jeconiah.........................Jeconiah *.............Er
.......................***** the exile *****..................
......................................Elmadam...................
......................................Cosam.......................
......................................Addi..........................
......................................Melchi.......................
......................................Neri...........................
Shealtiel.........................Salathiel.................Salathiel
Zerubbabel....................Zerubbabel.............Zerubbabel
.....................................Abiud......................Rhesa
.....................................Eliakim....................Joanan
.....................................Azor.........................Joda
.....................................Zadok.......................Josech
.....................................Achim......................Semien
.....................................Eliud........................Mattathias
.....................................Eleazar.....................Maath
.....................................Matthan....................Naggai
.......................................................................Esli
.......................................................................Nahum
......................................................................Amos
......................................................................Mattathias
......................................................................Joseph
......................................................................Jannai
.........................................................…..........Melchi
.......................................................................Levi
.......................................................................Matthat
.....................................Jacob....................….Heli
.....................................Joseph.......................Joseph
Notes:
* childless! See Jer 22: 30
** not used as personal names till after the exile

The text does not say Jeconiah was childless. The text (Jer. 22:30) states:

“Write this man down childless,
a man who shall not succeed in his days,
for none of his offspring shall succeed
in sitting on the throne of David
and ruling again in Judah.”

Also in the same pericope (v. 28) it says:

"Why have he and his descendants been hurled out
And cast into a land that they had not known?"

Also 1 Chronicles 3:17-18 informs the reader he had seven son.

"and the sons of Jeconiah, the prisoner, Shealtiel his son, and Malchiram, Pedaiah, Shenazzar, Jekamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah,"