Chemical imbalance vs Behavioral

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I have worked in mental health field for the last 9.5 years. I wonder sometimes when i see people who are depressed or anxious how much of their problem is truly a chemical imbalance and how much of it is really just bad habits and negative thinking. Of course, trauma plays a part of it with many people especially if the person has something like PTSD. Our mental health field in America seems to be primarily a medical model and assumes that there is some type of chemical imbalance with almost everyone. I have indeed seen people get a lot better with medication. What do you think?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
33,155
Age
58
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I think you're right. I typed something up but I know there are those who would take my wording the wrong way so I deleted it. But I do agree that experiences play a huge role in those who are labeled depressed as opposed to those who are truly chemically imbalanced.
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
I have worked in mental health field for the last 9.5 years. I wonder sometimes when i see people who are depressed or anxious how much of their problem is truly a chemical imbalance and how much of it is really just bad habits and negative thinking. Of course, trauma plays a part of it with many people especially if the person has something like PTSD. Our mental health field in America seems to be primarily a medical model and assumes that there is some type of chemical imbalance with almost everyone. I have indeed seen people get a lot better with medication. What do you think?

If chemicals really change I think it has a spiritual cause.
Actually I think that whole psychiatry stuff is evil. Almost got me killed and I knew it was evil, but they pushed me to go there in a church. They put pills in everyone to keep you quiet. I was depressed because of a bad marriage and there was hate, sin, devil trying to destroy our marriage and ministry and then they put some drugs in you. I dated a guy on pot after that cause I fell from my faith after a suicide attempt immediately when the prozac dose got doubled (warned the psychiater i was now completely demon posessed and wanted to kill myself but he didnt believe me and it couldnt be the pills).
I said to that guy stop w pot. He said whats the diff. I take 6 joints and you 8 oxazepam. They make that from opium. That opened my eyes, especially when I saw Hal Lindsey speak on the whore of Babylon and scorseries, so I just quit immediately and threw all that stuff away.
When I stopped sinning and repented and came back to God and forgave my ex and all those ppl and got my kids back I still didn't feel happy clappy, but I just proclaimed I was til I was LOL. And Louis de Funes helped me stay happy too lolz.
 

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
And what is get better? I got calm w oxazepam, you also get calm from alcohol, so lets get ppl drunk and they'll be more relaxed?
One nurse said to me that she believed it was bad, but ppl on antipsychotics you shouldn't tell to stop. Dunno.
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
40
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I often wonder why its such an offense for a psychologist/psychiatrist to suggest going to a church?
I get that some people really might need medical help but for most kids these days it seems almost "cool" to be doped up on medication for their "woe me condition" of youth. I mean, these companies and these doctors have a deal that benefits each other, the more scripts the doctor writes out for say Adderall, the more of a cut the doctor gets and the more the company makes, its abuse.
Kids today are falling further and further away from humanity's God sent antidepressant and the peacefulness of mankind because its "cool" to glorify satan and go along with the crowd.
Imbalance for some? Maybe.
But definitely not for nearly the entire population of Americans.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
I often wonder why its such an offense for a psychologist/psychiatrist to suggest going to a church?
I get that some people really might need medical help but for most kids these days it seems almost "cool" to be doped up on medication for their "woe me condition" of youth. I mean, these companies and these doctors have a deal that benefits each other, the more scripts the doctor writes out for say Adderall, the more of a cut the doctor gets and the more the company makes, its abuse.
Kids today are falling further and further away from humanity's God sent antidepressant and the peacefulness of mankind because its "cool" to glorify satan and go along with the crowd.
Imbalance for some? Maybe.
But definitely not for nearly the entire population of Americans.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

In the seventies in Holland comedians made jokes about psychiatrists. Noone went there. Now if a boy doesn't behave like a girl but is wild, he gets a label and pills to be quiet and behave. My son heard the devil say this and that all the time. His dad is a pastor. He prayed. Didn't leave. No real voices but strong thoughts the whole day through. I used to have that too w 13 after I read occult books. I just got a prophecy: I declare you free in My Name and it was immediately gone. But dad just took him to a psychologist. Prayer doesn't work. Lets put him on pills. Oh my I got furious. I asked him if he wanted to kill his son too. LOL he kicked me out of the house. Come on now, he's supposed to know spiritual stuff. So I shut up and said Im sorry, Tim just listen to your dad, so he could hear it. Then home I told him: this is drugs. It's dangerous. Lets pray. So I prayed. Didn't stop. Devil says this. Devil says that. Whole day through. I had one week. The next week he'd get the meds. So I said: We prayed. Believe it and declare the Word. God says you are set free so tell your dad its gone. He said: but then I lie. Nope. It's the truth. Gods Word says it. He said it to dad. Dad didn't believe it and within a week it was gone and he never had to go back to the psychologist and dad gave a testimony in church that he was healed. Yay praise God!
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,263
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Everybody likes to have an opinion on almost everything that interests them but the idea that clinical depression is not due to something being amiss with the way the depressed person's brain is functioning and that medication is not a necessary (or maybe appropriate) treatment is not an opinion that medical practitioners with expertise in the field say.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Yes, it is a fact that some antidepressants can make people suicidal, especially the elderly or young children. Years ago when I was going through a hard time the doctor put me on Cymbalta and it was the worst thing ever for me. I told the doctor that I was having "some dark thoughts" and needed to go off it. She didn't ask me what those thoughts were. If she had she probably would have put me in the hospital.

Psychotic medication isn't M&M's.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I often wonder why its such an offense for a psychologist/psychiatrist to suggest going to a church?
I get that some people really might need medical help but for most kids these days it seems almost "cool" to be doped up on medication for their "woe me condition" of youth. I mean, these companies and these doctors have a deal that benefits each other, the more scripts the doctor writes out for say Adderall, the more of a cut the doctor gets and the more the company makes, its abuse.
Kids today are falling further and further away from humanity's God sent antidepressant and the peacefulness of mankind because its "cool" to glorify satan and go along with the crowd.
Imbalance for some? Maybe.
But definitely not for nearly the entire population of Americans.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

Psychologist don't prescribe medications, but psychiatrist do. I didn't realize the difference when I wasn't in the field. I do think there is some imbalance for some people. I have met some of them. They have psychotic disorders and would be unsafe to themselves or others without their medication. But, I do think that medication is not the only answer for many people. Maybe some people feel bad for a reason and need to repent? Maybe they simply need to learn some self control and better coping skills.
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
40
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Psychologist don't prescribe medications, but psychiatrist do. I didn't realize the difference when I wasn't in the field. I do think there is some imbalance for some people. I have met some of them. They have psychotic disorders and would be unsafe to themselves or others without their medication. But, I do think that medication is not the only answer for many people. Maybe some people feel bad for a reason and need to repent? Maybe they simply need to learn some self control and better coping skills.
I know the difference between the two I was just acknowledging that neither will submit to suggesting church to their patients when it is scientifically proven that spiritual commitment to God (or however you wish to phrase it) can heal people mentally and physically

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I know the difference between the two I was just acknowledging that neither will submit to suggesting church to their patients when it is scientifically proven that spiritual commitment to God (or however you wish to phrase it) can heal people mentally and physically

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

I have never heard them recommend it when I have sat in a session with my clients. Some will suggest that the person should get out and socialize more and see value in church for that reason, but your right they tend to discount the spiritual value of going to church
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
40
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I have never heard them recommend it when I have sat in a session with my clients. Some will suggest that the person should get out and socialize more and see value in church for that reason, but your right they tend to discount the spiritual value of going to church
I have friend, she has nothing to do all day and is depressed. She will post suicidal and perverted outburst on facebook and everyone is telling her to seek out a doctor. She replies that she already sees one, I suggested reading the bible, even posted several passages for her and asked her to go to a Pentecostal service and church. She mocks me but I told her she needs all the spiritual help she can get. I just pray she finds the path, no matter how annoying we get, God will never turn his back unless we turn ours. The kingdom is at hand

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It's hard, sometimes, to see the value of something outside the Christian world-view, I think. But I'll just say that science does not "prove", it only points to a possible correlation between variables. The higher the correlation, the more reasonably sure science is that a relationship exists. Blogs and personal opinions are just that.

Taking time to look at the other side of things can be telling about the nature of mental health. Those who specialize in child development suggest that an attachment bond begins to form during the second trimester of pregnancy between an infant and the mother. The mother's mental health during pregnancy and following birth can have a significant effect on the infant's brain development and attachment to a primary care-giver. A mother who is healthy in that respect will have more of a positive effect on the child's own mental health and brain development, than a mother who struggles with her own ability to cope with anxiety, depression, or stress.

In Canada, there is an emphasis on taking a "trauma-informed" approach to working with those who deal with mental health or substance misuse (Canadian preferred term) issues. So it's emphasized that the 'symptoms' are not the issue, but what are the conditions/circumstances that create these "maladaptive" ways of coping. Much of the time, a person identifies issues of trauma, whether family, abuse, abandonment, PTSD, any number of things.

Another significant "push" in Canada (especially here in the metro-Vancouver area) is a "harm-reduction" approach. I'll say now that I don't agree with all aspects of harm reduction. I think (in some cases) it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where those who can fully get well, don't, because of the influence of certain programs that have significant sway in policy development.

Having said that, there is significant benefit to the approach as well - looking at what inherent strengths a person has to get well. And the Christian church - those who engage - see miraculous turnarounds. But what about those who don't engage? The goal is still to discover those strengths and help identify ways of coping that work for them and reduce the harm to them and those around them. Those mom's who have the broken attachments with their kids, can gain the skills to be great moms (and they do!). The Opiate user may have periodic relapses, but he's not using every day. Is that a failure? The abusive couple can learn skills for effective communication to decrease harm in the home and reunite the family. The depressive/anxious/schizophrenic can engage with their physician or mental health therapist to learn ways to manage effectively, and how to deal with a crisis situation - so they're not just hanging out at home all depressed and posting nasty stuff on Facebook. They may even come to that Pentecostal service that we want so badly for them.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It's hard, sometimes, to see the value of something outside the Christian world-view, I think. But I'll just say that science does not "prove", it only points to a possible correlation between variables. The higher the correlation, the more reasonably sure science is that a relationship exists. Blogs and personal opinions are just that.

Taking time to look at the other side of things can be telling about the nature of mental health. Those who specialize in child development suggest that an attachment bond begins to form during the second trimester of pregnancy between an infant and the mother. The mother's mental health during pregnancy and following birth can have a significant effect on the infant's brain development and attachment to a primary care-giver. A mother who is healthy in that respect will have more of a positive effect on the child's own mental health and brain development, than a mother who struggles with her own ability to cope with anxiety, depression, or stress.

In Canada, there is an emphasis on taking a "trauma-informed" approach to working with those who deal with mental health or substance misuse (Canadian preferred term) issues. So it's emphasized that the 'symptoms' are not the issue, but what are the conditions/circumstances that create these "maladaptive" ways of coping. Much of the time, a person identifies issues of trauma, whether family, abuse, abandonment, PTSD, any number of things.

Another significant "push" in Canada (especially here in the metro-Vancouver area) is a "harm-reduction" approach. I'll say now that I don't agree with all aspects of harm reduction. I think (in some cases) it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where those who can fully get well, don't, because of the influence of certain programs that have significant sway in policy development.

Having said that, there is significant benefit to the approach as well - looking at what inherent strengths a person has to get well. And the Christian church - those who engage - see miraculous turnarounds. But what about those who don't engage? The goal is still to discover those strengths and help identify ways of coping that work for them and reduce the harm to them and those around them. Those mom's who have the broken attachments with their kids, can gain the skills to be great moms (and they do!). The Opiate user may have periodic relapses, but he's not using every day. Is that a failure? The abusive couple can learn skills for effective communication to decrease harm in the home and reunite the family. The depressive/anxious/schizophrenic can engage with their physician or mental health therapist to learn ways to manage effectively, and how to deal with a crisis situation - so they're not just hanging out at home all depressed and posting nasty stuff on Facebook. They may even come to that Pentecostal service that we want so badly for them.

There has been an emphasis for the last few years here also about having a trauma informed approach.
 

ImaginaryDay2

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
3,967
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
There has been an emphasis for the last few years here also about having a trauma informed approach.

Have harm reduction advocates had much of a voice yet, or is that still north of the border? Initially, I think it was a concept borrowed from Australia
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Have harm reduction advocates had much of a voice yet, or is that still north of the border? Initially, I think it was a concept borrowed from Australia

The last few years I have heard a lot about peer support specialists. That is people who have recovered from mental health issues and are now trained to help others. I have spent the last almost ten years in community mental health agencies, so I am not sure if harm reduction advocates are in places like residential treatment facilities or hospitals. I have not had much interaction with people in those environments.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,263
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Have harm reduction advocates had much of a voice yet, or is that still north of the border? Initially, I think it was a concept borrowed from Australia

Harm reduction has been policy here (in Australia) since the earliest days of the HIV epidemic and now it is used in nearly every government funded treatment program and it may soon be adopted in legislation regarding illicit drugs - as it is in Portugal. The aim is to treat drug addition, mental illnesses, and all sorts of family & alcohol related crimes as matters capable of medical and psychological treatment rather than matters for harsher and harsher imprisonment terms. Of course like every idea it is debated and people offer counter arguments against it and some people really do want harsher punishments rather than treatment for dysfunctional behaviour. The USA will eventually find some kind of balance that suits its culture and politics. Australia appears to be heading to a model that is not the same as the USA's.
 

NewCreation435

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
5,049
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Harm reduction has been policy here (in Australia) since the earliest days of the HIV epidemic and now it is used in nearly every government funded treatment program and it may soon be adopted in legislation regarding illicit drugs - as it is in Portugal. The aim is to treat drug addition, mental illnesses, and all sorts of family & alcohol related crimes as matters capable of medical and psychological treatment rather than matters for harsher and harsher imprisonment terms. Of course like every idea it is debated and people offer counter arguments against it and some people really do want harsher punishments rather than treatment for dysfunctional behaviour. The USA will eventually find some kind of balance that suits its culture and politics. Australia appears to be heading to a model that is not the same as the USA's.

I get the idea of treating addiction as a sickness, but not treating it as what some people might do when they are high as a crime seems like excusing it. Just because a person is addicted doesn't mean they also aren't responsible for their actions.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,263
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I get the idea of treating addiction as a sickness, but not treating it as what some people might do when they are high as a crime seems like excusing it. Just because a person is addicted doesn't mean they also aren't responsible for their actions.

Harm reduction doesn't mean treating murder as a medical condition.
 
Top Bottom