Being "led to Christ"

[ImaginaryDay2]

So there's a bit of a story before getting to the question - bear with me...

I was with some friends who invited me to a barbecue they were having with some friends from their church (Baptist, iirc...). Anyway, during conversation it came up somehow about an engaged couple - one Catholic, one Orthodox. Their respective churches refused to marry them due to differences in beliefs.
Anyway, the story went that a Baptist minister agreed to marry them (and good for the baptist minister!). But it was also mentioned that "...the pastor even talked with them and led them to Christ"

So, here's my question. How, exactly, does one lead a Christian to Christ...? Is there an assumption that Christ hasn't already been received? Or something else?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So there's a bit of a story before getting to the question - bear with me...

I was with some friends who invited me to a barbecue they were having with some friends from their church (Baptist, iirc...). Anyway, during conversation it came up somehow about an engaged couple - one Catholic, one Orthodox. Their respective churches refused to marry them due to differences in beliefs.
Anyway, the story went that a Baptist minister agreed to marry them (and good for the baptist minister!). But it was also mentioned that "...the pastor even talked with them and led them to Christ"

So, here's my question. How, exactly, does one lead a Christian to Christ...? Is there an assumption that Christ hasn't already been received? Or something else?

In one's imagination when one holds to the view that only Baptists have saving doctrines/faith or something like that.

There are flaws in the story's premise; A Catholic priest would almost certainly consent to conducting the marriage between a Catholic and an Orthodox. The other flaw is the presumption that a typical Baptist pastor would claim that Catholic and Orthodox Christians are not Christians, many don't teach that.

 

[Lamb]

So there's a bit of a story before getting to the question - bear with me...

I was with some friends who invited me to a barbecue they were having with some friends from their church (Baptist, iirc...). Anyway, during conversation it came up somehow about an engaged couple - one Catholic, one Orthodox. Their respective churches refused to marry them due to differences in beliefs.
Anyway, the story went that a Baptist minister agreed to marry them (and good for the baptist minister!). But it was also mentioned that "...the pastor even talked with them and led them to Christ"

So, here's my question. How, exactly, does one lead a Christian to Christ...? Is there an assumption that Christ hasn't already been received? Or something else?

Lead a "Christian" to Christ? That's such an odd thing for someone to state since a Christian is already in Christ.

I kind of have a feeling that they either meant that they didn't believe the other person was a Christian, and that they thought they could somehow MAKE them into Christian by having them say some sinner's prayer.

As for churches refusing to marry because of differing beliefs, I'm a Lutheran and my husband is Catholic and we were married in the Catholic church he attended. No problem at all.

I think there is a whole lot more to the story than what was told. It could be that the couple were living in sin and the other churches wanted them to be apart before they would marry them?

 

[Lanman87]

You have to understand that in a Baptist church (and most evangelical churches) having been baptized and participating in the church doesn't automatically make someone a Christian. Most Baptist hold to conversion/decision theology. The belief is that someone must hear the Gospel and respond with a profession of faith in order to be saved. And even then they must actually possess faith instead of merely profess faith.

The understanding is that someone can participate in the life of the church (even be baptized) for various reasons such as cultural, social, to meet someone else's expectations and so forth, and never have put their faith in Christ. And to a Baptist, someone doesn't become a Christian when they are baptized. They become a Christian when they come to a saving faith in Christ.

So, when you take those things in mind, it makes perfect sense for a Baptist preacher to inquire about a persons faith, share the gospel with them, and "lead them to Christ".

I once took an Evangelism Explosion class where we ask someone "If you died today would God let you in heaven" and "Why would He let you into heaven"? Many answers were things like, "I always try to do the right thing", "I've been baptized", "I go to such and such church".

If they answered with anything other than some variant of "Because I've placed my faith in Christ and trust in Him to cleanse me and deliver me from my sins" or maybe "because Jesus died for my sins on the cross and I trust in Him to forgive me" then we would share the gospel message of grace through faith.

My guess is something like that happened with the Pastor and those he married.

 

[Edward429451]

So, here's my question. How, exactly, does one lead a Christian to Christ...? Is there an assumption that Christ hasn't already been received? Or something else?

That's am interesting question right there brother!

See how people naturally recoil from it though on some level?! I realized what you were asking and I think a decent rephrase of the question (Correct me if I'm wrong) would be something like...

Is there a place in Belief where a soul can think they are saved, but they are really not?

Scripture is the only thing that has a chance to answer that question for sure. Scripture does imply some ominous things that do imply that the answer is, yes they could be. Like, Many will say to me Lord, Lord and I will say, I never knew them. That alone could be an affirmative answer, but who would we be talking about?

Someone who said the sinners prayer when they were 12 or 14 and then started chasing girls instead of the Lord. That's like, getting hired for a job and then not showing up for work at all. Is the guy still saved, or at all?

I don't know for sure. Because, oddly enough, that was me. Saved Christian and baptized when I was like 12 or 14 and started chasing girls. Well, it was the Catholic girl that got pregnant! I thought, Uh-Oh didnt see that coming, but it must just be my time. If this pretty young lady is going to be having my child, then I need to get her into a house with me, which is the right thing to do. Then when she had the baby she got pregnant again right away, so now I have two kids with this girl and we live together so, she deserves to have my name also, so since I was wanting to do the right thing, but was still young and poor (Lol) I bought a $200 wedding ring and proposed to her in a fast food restaurant! No money for any big wedding, so we went downtown to the Justice of the Peace and got married very easy, $25 here you go, Next! But it was legal.

Now let me tell you I might not have been living a Christian life, but I had absorbed enough of the word when younger and even though I wasn't even praying or reading (much) anymore I know it says that marrying women of other gods will lead a man away from the true God. But it was weird, like the Holy Spirit would give me the urge to talk to her about God and take the kids to church. Whoa! That opened a can of worms. This girl was no devout catholic, but we did not see eye to eye on God, and it was a fight to even put a buck or two into the collection plate in church. Somehow we did go quite a few times, but oh boy did she give me a hard tome about God. I'm not going to kelp make payments on the Pastor's Cadillac or something else just as lame. And stupid me, I tried not to push the issues to keep the peace (My mistake).

Me not being the spiritual leader of the home led to the downfall of my marriage and family. I believe that I could have if I would have sought out the Lord's advice and control, but as happens so often, I was a dummy, lol. After the kids were grown nd she left me, I was still a dummy and went charging down the wrong path with my newfound freedom.

I believe that the Lord got tired of waiting on me to return to Him. And so, He basically chopped my life down and let me shake hands with death, and I aint that big of a dummy so I cried out to Him and he saved my life, clearly he saved my life. I still carry a big thorn in the side even years later. I had around 4 months on my back in recovery to ponder, what happened out on that road? I should have died but did not. I remember calling out to him as death was reaching towards me, and I did live. That, was God. This is the super condensed version but God confirmed it for me that it was Him. And I knew, I owed Him my life.

So I returned to the Lord and did what I know how to do, repent obey read the word, and pray. So that's what I did. And kept at it. After a period of time of obeying and pursuing the Lord...things begin to happen for me. Spiritual things. Miracles. Undeniably God. Blessings, and an inner peace in my spirit. I can now feel the Lord within me. This is the peace of God within you that scripture speaks of. So I've never seen anything spiritual happen, and yet, I have my proof. And I was being blessed and was drawing closer to God all the time and He began teaching me. Now it's 15 years later and I have learned much and grown much.

So the point of repeating all that is, where scripture says do not be unequally yoked with a non believer. I can't say whether I was saved at 12 or 14 or after I started obeying the Lord more and dwelling with Christ more diligently. Many "Christians" never see a miracle so they are not diligent in their efforts.

I remember when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I find myself wondering at times, is that when I actually got saved and my name written in the book of Life? I'm not sure brother. But many "Christians" are not diligent is seeking the Lord, so I think it's possible that maybe, they have not been saved yet.

Study to show thyself Approved, Pray Unceasingly, Seek God with all your heart strength mind and soul? Being married to a Catholic girl is not advised if you are a Jesus centered believer!

When you get gifted a new spirit from God, what's that one scripture say? To those who confess and believe they are given the power to become sons of God? Something like that.

So we have the power to become sons of God. What does that mean? You have to show up for work and say, what now Lord? And it after you are hired so to speak, that you get to know each other, mostly you learning to know Him. You do have to participate with Him! I think many "Christians" have a spiritual experience with the Holy Spirit in church and go to the altar call and give their lives to Jesus, and then go home and sit down and not participate enough for the Lord to do miracles for you or approve you to become sons of God.

Because of that, one day, Jesus will have to say to many people, I never knew you. But if you ask the people, Oh I have faith, I'm saved, I was even Baptized! Lord...Lord?

I *think* that any Christian who has never seen a miracle happen is not a real saved Christian, they have deluded themselves because small miracles are a normal occurrence in Christianity.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

In one's imagination when one holds to the view that only Baptists have saving doctrines/faith or something like that.

This is what got me little riled (or questioning, at least...). I think this was the point of it. Unless one recites a prayer and is baptised as an adult = not saved

There are flaws in the story's premise; A Catholic priest would almost certainly consent to conducting the marriage between a Catholic and an Orthodox. The other flaw is the presumption that a typical Baptist pastor would claim that Catholic and Orthodox Christians are not Christians, many don't teach that.

It seemed a point of pride having "led them to Christ".
Someone else in the thread mentioned there may have been unresolved sin of some type that perhaps prevented the marriage.
Qhute a bit missing in the story

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

You have to understand that in a Baptist church (and most evangelical churches) having been baptized and participating in the church doesn't automatically make someone a Christian. Most Baptist hold to conversion/decision theology. The belief is that someone must hear the Gospel and respond with a profession of faith in order to be saved. And even then they must actually possess faith instead of merely profess faith.

I was part of a Pentecostal church for a short time that their view was similar, with the addition of "speaking in tongues". Until then? Not saved

The understanding is that someone can participate in the life of the church (even be baptized) for various reasons such as cultural, social, to meet someone else's expectations and so forth, and never have put their faith in Christ. And to a Baptist, someone doesn't become a Christian when they are baptized. They become a Christian when they come to a saving faith in Christ.

So, when you take those things in mind, it makes perfect sense for a Baptist preacher to inquire about a persons faith, share the gospel with them, and "lead them to Christ".

I agree. It's just a strange premise to me. I left the Evangelical church for some of those reasons. Their view just didn't make sense. I didn't perceive my Catholic and Orthodox 'brothers/sisters' as being outside the (universal Christian) Church

I once took an Evangelism Explosion class where we ask someone "If you died today would God let you in heaven" and "Why would He let you into heaven"? Many answers were things like, "I always try to do the right thing", "I've been baptized", "I go to such and such church".

If they answered with anything other than some variant of "Because I've placed my faith in Christ and trust in Him to cleanse me and deliver me from my sins" or maybe "because Jesus died for my sins on the cross and I trust in Him to forgive me" then we would share the gospel message of grace through faith.

My guess is something like that happened with the Pastor and those he married.

Most likely. I started to question a lot as I looked at Scripture along with history of the Evangelical movement. A lot of it didn't line up with what I was studying

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

That's am interesting question right there brother!

See how people naturally recoil from it though on some level?! I realized what you were asking and I think a decent rephrase of the question (Correct me if I'm wrong) would be something like...

Is there a place in Belief where a soul can think they are saved, but they are really not?

Exactly. And I've never really understood that presumption by some, but there may in fact be some truth to it. The presumed truth of that is what gets to me the most

Scripture is the only thing that has a chance to answer that question for sure. Scripture does imply some ominous things that do imply that the answer is, yes they could be. Like, Many will say to me Lord, Lord and I will say, I never knew them. That alone could be an affirmative answer, but who would we be talking about?

Someone who said the sinners prayer when they were 12 or 14 and then started chasing girls instead of the Lord. That's like, getting hired for a job and then not showing up for work at all. Is the guy still saved, or at all?

I don't know for sure. Because, oddly enough, that was me. Saved Christian and baptized when I was like 12 or 14 and started chasing girls. Well, it was the Catholic girl that got pregnant! I thought, Uh-Oh didnt see that coming, but it must just be my time. If this pretty young lady is going to be having my child, then I need to get her into a house with me, which is the right thing to do. Then when she had the baby she got pregnant again right away, so now I have two kids with this girl and we live together so, she deserves to have my name also, so since I was wanting to do the right thing, but was still young and poor (Lol) I bought a $200 wedding ring and proposed to her in a fast food restaurant! No money for any big wedding, so we went downtown to the Justice of the Peace and got married very easy, $25 here you go, Next! But it was legal.

Now let me tell you I might not have been living a Christian life, but I had absorbed enough of the word when younger and even though I wasn't even praying or reading (much) anymore I know it says that marrying women of other gods will lead a man away from the true God. But it was weird, like the Holy Spirit would give me the urge to talk to her about God and take the kids to church. Whoa! That opened a can of worms. This girl was no devout catholic, but we did not see eye to eye on God, and it was a fight to even put a buck or two into the collection plate in church. Somehow we did go quite a few times, but oh boy did she give me a hard tome about God. I'm not going to kelp make payments on the Pastor's Cadillac or something else just as lame. And stupid me, I tried not to push the issues to keep the peace (My mistake).

I understand that completely. I've been divorced for a while and I didn't meet my responsibilities in the marriage. And change of attitude and behavior came too late. She was quite miffed when I joined the local Lutheran church, but it was where my journey led me, and still keeps me.

Me not being the spiritual leader of the home led to the downfall of my marriage and family. I believe that I could have if I would have sought out the Lord's advice and control, but as happens so often, I was a dummy, lol. After the kids were grown nd she left me, I was still a dummy and went charging down the wrong path with my newfound freedom.

I believe that the Lord got tired of waiting on me to return to Him. And so, He basically chopped my life down and let me shake hands with death, and I aint that big of a dummy so I cried out to Him and he saved my life, clearly he saved my life. I still carry a big thorn in the side even years later. I had around 4 months on my back in recovery to ponder, what happened out on that road? I should have died but did not. I remember calling out to him as death was reaching towards me, and I did live. That, was God. This is the super condensed version but God confirmed it for me that it was Him. And I knew, I owed Him my life.

So I returned to the Lord and did what I know how to do, repent obey read the word, and pray. So that's what I did. And kept at it. After a period of time of obeying and pursuing the Lord...things begin to happen for me. Spiritual things. Miracles. Undeniably God. Blessings, and an inner peace in my spirit. I can now feel the Lord within me. This is the peace of God within you that scripture speaks of. So I've never seen anything spiritual happen, and yet, I have my proof. And I was being blessed and was drawing closer to God all the time and He began teaching me. Now it's 15 years later and I have learned much and grown much.

I'm inclined to agree that one can fall away from faith, assuming they received the gift of salvation made alive in them through the Holy Spirit. I was quite far gone in my teens/20's and stayed away for a long time after. I mentioned the Pentecostals earlier. It was through them that the Spirit led me and I owe them all the gratitude in the world for that. It still took a while to fully come around, but I can point to that moment as my sort of "profession" even though I had been baptised as an infant and confirmed through the Presbyterian church (as a side note, I don't believe that infant baptism is wrong/unbiblical).

So the point of repeating all that is, where scripture says do not be unequally yoked with a non believer. I can't say whether I was saved at 12 or 14 or after I started obeying the Lord more and dwelling with Christ more diligently. Many "Christians" never see a miracle so they are not diligent in their efforts.

I remember when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I find myself wondering at times, is that when I actually got saved and my name written in the book of Life? I'm not sure brother. But many "Christians" are not diligent is seeking the Lord, so I think it's possible that maybe, they have not been saved yet.

Always a possibility, but I take the stance that the Lord knows the heart of a man and ultimately who belongs to Him

Study to show thyself Approved, Pray Unceasingly, Seek God with all your heart strength mind and soul? Being married to a Catholic girl is not advised if you are a Jesus centered believer!

Yeah, I disagree with you here. If both are Jesus centred believers then there is no separation between them, other than one's beliefs

When you get gifted a new spirit from God, what's that one scripture say? To those who confess and believe they are given the power to become sons of God? Something like that.

So we have the power to become sons of God. What does that mean? You have to show up for work and say, what now Lord? And it after you are hired so to speak, that you get to know each other, mostly you learning to know Him. You do have to participate with Him! I think many "Christians" have a spiritual experience with the Holy Spirit in church and go to the altar call and give their lives to Jesus, and then go home and sit down and not participate enough for the Lord to do miracles for you or approve you to become sons of God.

Well, we are given that power by the work of the Spirit who makes us sons of God

Because of that, one day, Jesus will have to say to many people, I never knew you. But if you ask the people, Oh I have faith, I'm saved, I was even Baptized! Lord...Lord?

True, one must progress in sanctification through the work of the Spirit

Thanks for the thought out response!

 

[MoreCoffee]

an engaged couple - one Catholic, one Orthodox. Their respective churches refused to marry them due to differences in beliefs.
... a Baptist minister agreed to marry them ... the pastor even talked with them and led them to Christ ...

If that is the gist of what they related (and I believe you that it is) then the story may be affected by the teller not being a direct witness or directly involved, it may be a case of hearsay passing down inaccuracies and inflating them as it is handed along the chain. It is possible that it is more of a fiction than a reality.
In My Fair Lady (a 1960s movie) there's a scene illustrating how it can work, a scene in the ballroom as Eliza Doolittle dances with the Prince. It's very entertaining.