A few things atheists are not...

[MarkFL]

Hello all,

I was raised Baptist, but after much study and inner-reflection realized I am an atheist at about the age of 16. So, as an atheist, I wanted to dispel some popular notions about atheists.

Atheists are not:

• Stating any position on the existence of the supernatural (either for or against), because there is no compelling evidence to do so. An atheist does not believe in any God or gods, but does not make the claim that there are none. This is an outdated misconception.
• Haters of God - we simply do not find sufficient reason to believe in God, or anything on faith alone. We cannot hate that in which we do not believe.
• Sad or depressed about not believing in life after death - I consider myself very fortunate to be alive, that all of the events necessary for my existence took place, and only want to make the best of the life that is mine.
• Inherently amoral - we do not feel that since we do not believe in God this gives us free license to behave any way we want. Treating others the right way is something that should be done simply because it is the right thing to do.
• Naturally smarter than anyone else - I get really irritated at other atheists who come off like those who choose to have faith are somehow less intelligent than them, because it is simply not true and gives others a bad impression of atheists as a whole.
• Worshipers of science - Science does not, nor will it ever, have all the answers, but what makes science so important is that it is an ever increasing and self-correcting system aimed at finding the truth about the natural world. Science, by its very definition, has nothing to say about the existence of God. Science is not, nor could it ever be, a replacement for God.

Those are just a few off the top of my head, but please feel free to give your honest thoughts on atheism, and I will try to address them

 

[Lamb]

Those are all good points you've made! I have a lot of friends who are atheist but I have more who are Christian. None of my friends are evil (or I wouldn't be friends with them LOL).

I have a question that is almost connected to your #1. You state that there is no hatred of God but how do you feel about religion in general?

 

[MarkFL]

I see religion being used by the vast majority in a positive way, yet all we hear about in the media is the small minority abusing it, committing atrocities in the name of their God, etc. It is a shame because some folks get the impression that religion is bad and tend to stereotype, but then that is one thing we as a species do rather well...judge people based on the actions of others.

 

[Hammster]

Hello all,

I was raised Baptist, but after much study and inner-reflection realized I am an atheist at about the age of 16. So, as an atheist, I wanted to dispel some popular notions about atheists.

Atheists are not:

• Haters of God - we simply do not find sufficient reason to believe in God, or anything on faith alone. We cannot hate that in which we do not believe.
• Sad or depressed about not believing in life after death - I consider myself very fortunate to be alive, that all of the events necessary for my existence took place, and only want to make the best of the life that is mine.
• Inhernetly amoral - we do not feel that since we do not believe in God this gives us free license to behave any way we want. Treating others the right way is something that should be done simply because it is the right thing to do.
• Naturally smarter than anyone else - I get really irritated at other atheists who come off like those who choose to have faith are somehow less intelligent than them, because it is simply not true and gives others a bad impression of atheists as a whole.
• Worshipers of science - Science does not, nor will it ever, have all the answers, but what makes science so important is that it is an ever increasing and self-correcting system aimed at finding the truth about the natural world. Science, by its very definition, has nothing to say about the existence of God. Science is not, nor could it ever be, a replacement for God.

Those are just a few off the top of my head, but please feel free to give your honest thoughts on atheism, and I will try to address them

Not believing in God is hating God. Maybe not from your viewpoint, but it's the truth.


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[MarkFL]

...but it's the truth.

And how can you demonstrate this is the truth? If you are using faith as a means for declaring something to be fact, this holds little value for anyone who does not share your faith. In order for something to be declared as the truth, it has to be independently verifiable by all those who test it. It has to be something for which only one conclusion can logically be drawn.

You can say, "The Bible says such and such, and because I have faith that the Bible is true, I believe it" but you cannot state something as fact for everyone when you rely on faith alone. Faith and testimony are very personal, and not means for finding undeniable and verifiable truth.

Hatred is a strong emotion, and I have no such emotion towards that which I find no reason to believe. I am simply indifferent, which is passive rather than active like hatred.

 

[Hammster]

And how can you demonstrate this is the truth? If you are using faith as a means for declaring something to be fact, this holds little value for anyone who does not share your faith. In order for something to be declared as the truth, it has to be independently verifiable by all those who test it. It has to be something for which only one conclusion can logically be drawn.

You can say, "The Bible says such and such, and because I have faith that the Bible is true, I believe it" but you cannot state something as fact for everyone when you rely on faith alone. Faith and testimony are very personal, and not means for finding undeniable and verifiable truth.

Hatred is a strong emotion, and I have no such emotion towards that which I find no reason to believe. I am simply indifferent, which is passive rather than active like hatred.

You can only be indifferent towards that which you believe is true. That would verify what scripture when it says:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. - Romans 1:18-23


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[MarkFL]

Let's look just at verse 20:

20 For the inuisible things of him from the Creation of the world, are clearely seene, being vnderstood by the things that are made, euen his eternall Power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

So, in essence the Bible is stating that the evidence for God can be clearly seen...where? Where is anything that denies any other explanation other than the existence of any God, much less one specific God?

By the way, I really do not wish to debate the existence of God in this thread, I merely wanted to point out a few misconceptions about atheists, one of which is that we hate God. We do not hate God any more than we hate Zeus, or Leprechauns.

 

[Hammster]

Let's look just at verse 20:

20 For the inuisible things of him from the Creation of the world, are clearely seene, being vnderstood by the things that are made, euen his eternall Power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

So, in essence the Bible is stating that the evidence for God can be clearly seen...where? Where is anything that denies any other explanation other than the existence of any God, much less one specific God?

By the way, I really do not wish to debate the existence of God in this thread, I merely wanted to point out a few misconceptions about atheists, one of which is that we hate God. We do not hate God any more than we hate Zeus, or Leprechauns.

I am not debating the existence of God. There's no need.

The fact that the evidence is clearly seen, yet you deny that it is, is evidence that you "suppress the truth".


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[MarkFL]

I am not debating the existence of God. There's no need.

There is no need in this thread is true, but the existence of God is in fact NOT self-evident...it takes faith to believe, and faith is believing in something despite there being no evidence. Faith is what allows some to believe in something without evidence.

The fact that the evidence is clearly seen, yet you deny that it is, is evidence that you "suppress the truth".

Show me one shred of undeniable evidence. It is not enough to keep repeating "the evidence is clear"...you must actually present some (any) evidence to back up your claim.

It is not that I suppress anything, I am only after the truth, and truth cannot be achieved with faith, if one is to be intellectually honest with oneself.

 

[Hammster]

There is no need in this thread is true, but the existence of God is in fact NOT self-evident...it takes faith to believe, and faith is believing in something despite there being no evidence. Faith is what allows some to believe in something without evidence.



Show me one shred of undeniable evidence. It is not enough to keep repeating "the evidence is clear"...you must actually present some (any) evidence to back up your claim.

It is not that I suppress anything, I am only after the truth, and truth cannot be achieved with faith, if one is to be intellectually honest with oneself.

There's no point in giving any evidence. You would just continue to suppress the truth.

There are some who get all into the evidence of God. The Kalam Cosmological Argument is pretty popular. But I lean towards the presuppositional apologetic. Unless God does a work in you, you will not believe. And since faith comes by hearing, I need to present what is in scripture since it's the gospel is the power of God for salvation.


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[MarkFL]

That's pretty much what I expected...to be repeatedly told there is evidence and that I am to blame for not seeing it, but not actually ever shown any.

 

[Hammster]

That's pretty much what I expected...to be repeatedly told there is evidence and that I am to blame for not seeing it, but not actually ever shown any.

Again, I don't need to show any.


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[GuusVA]

Well I'm just gonna skip by the debate part about the existence of God because we can go on for ages I guess..

Just saying that as there are Christians and Muslims and Buddhist abusing their religion or religious position there are atheists abusing their not religion, I guess, I mean there are atheists that do think of believers as stupid and who will surely act that way in front of you. So what you say is true for group A of people but not for group B of people.. I've met both and I sincerely like the group A

 

[MoreCoffee]

Hello all,

I was raised Baptist, but after much study and inner-reflection realized I am an atheist at about the age of 16. So, as an atheist, I wanted to dispel some popular notions about atheists.

Atheists are not:

• Haters of God - we simply do not find sufficient reason to believe in God, or anything on faith alone. We cannot hate that in which we do not believe.
• Sad or depressed about not believing in life after death - I consider myself very fortunate to be alive, that all of the events necessary for my existence took place, and only want to make the best of the life that is mine.
• Inhernetly amoral - we do not feel that since we do not believe in God this gives us free license to behave any way we want. Treating others the right way is something that should be done simply because it is the right thing to do.
• Naturally smarter than anyone else - I get really irritated at other atheists who come off like those who choose to have faith are somehow less intelligent than them, because it is simply not true and gives others a bad impression of atheists as a whole.
• Worshipers of science - Science does not, nor will it ever, have all the answers, but what makes science so important is that it is an ever increasing and self-correcting system aimed at finding the truth about the natural world. Science, by its very definition, has nothing to say about the existence of God. Science is not, nor could it ever be, a replacement for God.

Those are just a few off the top of my head, but please feel free to give your honest thoughts on atheism, and I will try to address them

Well, I agree with several of your stated points yet I wonder if all of them are correct. Saint Paul implies that the all those who do not believe the gospel when it is presented to them and persist in that unbelief hate God. I suspect that deep down they do. I suspect that deep down even the inner reflection and copious study that is claimed as the reason for unbelief amounts to a fairly pronounced dislike for God. Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett seem to be excellent examples of studious reasoned atheists who ultimately hate God.

 

[MarkFL]

Neither Prof. Dawkins nor I hate God, just as I do not hate Zeus or Thor. I just find that there is no compelling reason to believe in the supernatural. It takes faith to believe in something for which there is no compelling evidence, and I happen to be someone who is incapable of that. I simply cannot hate that in which I do not believe.

 

[Lamb]

How is hate defined?

 

[Josiah]

Hello all,

I was raised Baptist, but after much study and inner-reflection realized I am an atheist at about the age of 16. So, as an atheist, I wanted to dispel some popular notions about atheists.

Atheists are not:

[*]Haters of God - we simply do not find sufficient reason to believe in God, or anything on faith alone. We cannot hate that in which we do not believe.

I disagree. Agnostics might be such, but an atheist - by definition - DENIES the existence of God. Oddly, they quickly show they have no more confirmation of their position ("God does not exist") than they insist that theists have for theirs ("God does exist") thus defending exactly what they denounce: contradicting themselves.

[*]Sad or depressed about not believing in life after death - I consider myself very fortunate to be alive, that all of the events necessary for my existence took place, and only want to make the best of the life that is mine.
[*]Inhernetly amoral - we do not feel that since we do not believe in God this gives us free license to behave any way we want. Treating others the right way is something that should be done simply because it is the right thing to do.
[*]Naturally smarter than anyone else - I get really irritated at other atheists who come off like those who choose to have faith are somehow less intelligent than them, because it is simply not true and gives others a bad impression of atheists as a whole.
[*]Worshipers of science - Science does not, nor will it ever, have all the answers, but what makes science so important is that it is an ever increasing and self-correcting system aimed at finding the truth about the natural world. Science, by its very definition, has nothing to say about the existence of God. Science is not, nor could it ever be, a replacement for God.
[/LIST]

Those are just a few off the top of my head, but please feel free to give your honest thoughts on atheism, and I will try to address them

That's not my experience.....

The few atheists known to me seem supremely ANGRY - and I'm always very curious as to what lies behind all that anger. If I said I believe there is life beyond the Earth, no one gets MAD - even though I would have NOTHING to support that belief. But tell an atheist I believe in God and POW - all this ANGER, accusations of my being immature, illogical, mentally unstable, ignorant, unthinking, of questionable intelligence. WHY? Why all the anger? Curious..... Very curious..... Now the agnostics known to me (a far, far greater number likely will respect my belief, perhaps even acknowledge how it blesses me, just not embrace it.

I'm a scientist. I have my Ph.D. in astrophysics. But I've had atheist insist that, because I'm a theist, I'm ignorant of science and they at times try to teach me - usually revealing their last science class was in high school and they probably failed, lol. THEY are the ones who speak on and on and on and on of science, leaving me with the conclusion that their very small knowledge of science is their "god." And that they embrace human intelligence as supreme and self as most intelligent. Atheists known to me seem quite insistent of their supreme brain - at least vis-a-vis any theist.



My perspective and experience.....



- Josiah

 

[MarkFL]

An atheist is someone who simply lacks believe in a god or gods, at least from the way I have seen it defined. There is no compelling evidence in support of, or in opposition to, anything supernatural. If at some point this changes, then I will adjust my worldview accordingly.

It is like Russell's Teapot...the burden of proof is on those making the unlikely claim, it is not on anyone to disprove it.

I certainly can't speak for ALL atheists, but those that I know are not angry...only annoyed when belief by faith is elevated by some to the same level as provable fact. When people say, "I know such and such..." when they merely believe it to be true, this can cause irritation by those of us who make the distinction between belief and fact.

And any atheist who thinks he is by default "smarter than a theist" is a sad deluded little person.

 

[Josiah]

I disagree. Agnostics might be such, but an atheist - by definition - DENIES the existence of God. Oddly, they quickly show they have no more confirmation of their position ("God does not exist") than they insist that theists have for theirs ("God does exist") thus defending exactly what they denounce: contradicting themselves.


That's not my experience.....

The few atheists known to me seem supremely ANGRY - and I'm always very curious as to what lies behind all that anger. If I said I believe there is life beyond the Earth, no one gets MAD - even though I would have NOTHING to support that belief. But tell an atheist I believe in God and POW - all this ANGER, accusations of my being immature, illogical, mentally unstable, ignorant, unthinking, of questionable intelligence. WHY? Why all the anger? Curious..... Very curious..... Now the agnostics known to me (a far, far greater number likely will respect my belief, perhaps even acknowledge how it blesses me, just not embrace it.

I'm a scientist. I have my Ph.D. in astrophysics. But I've had atheist insist that, because I'm a theist, I'm ignorant of science and they at times try to teach me - usually revealing their last science class was in high school and they probably failed, lol. THEY are the ones who speak on and on and on and on of science, leaving me with the conclusion that their very small knowledge of science is their "god." And that they embrace human intelligence as supreme and self as most intelligent. Atheists known to me seem quite insistent of their supreme brain - at least vis-a-vis any theist.



My perspective and experience.....


.

An atheist is someone who simply lacks believe in a god or gods, at least from the way I have seen it defined. T

I disagree.

"Atheist" = NO GOD. It is the dogmatic position that the divine does not exist. It is just as dogmatic as a theist, just holding to the opposite claim.

"Agnostic" = No certainty or confirmation. From "gnost" (to know) negated by the "a" in front. An agnostic does not dismiss the possibility - but rather simply holds that there is not sufficient evidence to support the position. For example, I'm an agnostic when it comes to life beyond the Earth simply because there is - to date - insufficient grounds to affirm that there is.

It is like Russell's Teapot...the burden of proof is on those making the unlikely claim, it is not on anyone to disprove it.

An Atheist makes a claim - a very big, bold, dogmatic one: there is NO divine. Yes, such then has the burden of proof for his/her position.



Thank you.


- Josiah

 

[MarkFL]

There are differing schools of thought on that...when I say atheist, I mean someone who is not a theist.