13.8 thousand million years ...

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,205
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
They (meaning astronomers) say that the universe is 13,800,000,000 years old. That's so many years that it makes my head spin. I can't imagine that many of anything. Yet in the resurrection everybody will be that old "in no time" and will soon be 100 times older then 1,000,000 times older and then 1,000,000,000 times older and so on to infinitely older. Is that something you want?
 

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
They (meaning astronomers) say that the universe is 13,800,000,000 years old. That's so many years that it makes my head spin. I can't imagine that many of anything. Yet in the resurrection everybody will be that old "in no time" and will soon be 100 times older then 1,000,000 times older and then 1,000,000,000 times older and so on to infinitely older. Is that something you want?

Like the old saying ... Location, location, location ... where you spend that time makes all the difference.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,695
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
They (meaning astronomers) say that the universe is 13,800,000,000 years old. That's so many years that it makes my head spin. I can't imagine that many of anything. Yet in the resurrection everybody will be that old "in no time" and will soon be 100 times older then 1,000,000 times older and then 1,000,000,000 times older and so on to infinitely older. Is that something you want?

I don't think what I want will make any difference, beyond the decision of whether I spend an unimaginably long time in paradise or torment.
 

hedrick

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
683
Age
75
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
According to modern physics, time is part of space-time. But that's got a finite (though long) lifetime. I've got to wonder if eternity is actually within space-time. If not, then billions of years of linear time may not be applicable.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,205
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
According to modern physics, time is part of space-time. But that's got a finite (though long) lifetime. I've got to wonder if eternity is actually within space-time. If not, then billions of years of linear time may not be applicable.

Do you think one's subjective time will be unending or will it end?
 

Pedrito

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
1,032
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
13.8 thousand million years …

An interesting figure. Large enough to avoid independent checking. Precise enough (13.82 billion rather than 14.0 billion) to give a sense of accuracy, around 0.1 billion years greater than the age calculated just a few years previously.

By comparison, our galaxy is said to be 13.21 (by some, a different figure by others) billion years old. Our solar system, 4.5 billion. The Earth 4.4 billion (at least 4.374 billion, but maybe 4.54).

There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in existence at the moment. That is expected to rise to 200 billion as space telescope technology improves. (That many? Why not 150 billion? Why not 300 billion, or 400, or even more? Actually, another estimate is 2 trillion. Another is around 10 trillion.)

Whatever the current figures, they are not to be challenged (even if they are in conflict) outside astronomical circles.

If we look carefully, can we detect religious overtones within that “scientific circle”?

==============================================================================================

Most galaxies are moving away from ours at a rate that is related to the distance from us. With some exceptions, the farther away they are, the faster they are receding. In all directions. The universe is therefore expanding. Therefore there must be undetectable “dark energy” pushing the galaxies apart. (What is the other explanation that requires no “dark energy”?)

But “dark energy” appears not to exist within galaxies. According to accepted gravitational and rotational formulas, galaxies need undetectable “dark matter” to hold them together. (If someone with a logical, enquiring mind (MoreCoffee comes to mind, in Pedrito’s mind) looked closely at those formulae as applied to galaxies, would that person detect the same logical flaw that Pedrito seems to have found?)

And why hasn’t the “dark matter” already squashed those galaxies that have little or no rotation and therefore have no centrifugal force to resist it? Does the detected apparent flaw in one of the formulae explain it all?

And if other galaxies are moving away from us predictably and uniformly in all directions, does that not mean that we are located at the point of the “Big Bang”? Where does astronomical science say the location of the “Big Bang” was? (Is the true explanation the same as that related to “dark matter” above?)

==============================================================================================

Now, with respect to some of the comments made in this thread (and elsewhere): One thing that puzzles Pedrito is that the Bible states with definiteness that the wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23a) That is why the death sentence was passed on humanity. (Genesis 2:17; 3:19) That is why people die. And, until rescue from death was provided by God via the arrival, death and resurrection of His Son (Romans 6:23b; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22), that death was eternal, without remedy. Thus the wages had been paid.

Now we find that because Jesus took all our sins upon Himself and paid for them by His unrequired (personally unnecessary) death (Isaiah 53:4-6; 1 Timothy 2:3-4), every dead person will as a consequence get their lives back via resurrection (although some dispute that). And suddenly those people have to pay all over again for the sins that they have already paid for – sins that in fact have been transferred to (laid on) someone else, anyway.

Pedrito cannot help but wonder at this.
 
Last edited:

Imalive

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
2,315
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Seriously, I read 13.8 thousand million posts and thought:
Did he make so many?
I guess it's time to go to bed.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
13.8 thousand million years …

An interesting figure. Large enough to avoid independent checking. Precise enough (13.82 billion rather than 14.0 billion) to give a sense of accuracy, around 0.1 billion years greater than the age calculated just a few years previously.

By comparison, our galaxy is said to be 13.21 (by some, a different figure by others) billion years old. Our solar system, 4.5 billion. The Earth 4.4 billion (at least 4.374 billion, but maybe 4.54).

There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in existence at the moment. That is expected to rise to 200 billion as space telescope technology improves. (That many? Why not 150 billion? Why not 300 billion, or 400, or even more? Actually, another estimate is 2 trillion. Another is around 10 trillion.)

Whatever the current figures, they are not to be challenged (even if they are in conflict) outside astronomical circles.

If we look carefully, can we detect religious overtones within that “scientific circle”?

==============================================================================================

Most galaxies are moving away from ours at a rate that is related to the distance from us. With some exceptions, the farther away they are, the faster they are receding. In all directions. The universe is therefore expanding. Therefore there must be undetectable “dark energy” pushing the galaxies apart. (What is the other explanation that requires no “dark energy”?)

But “dark energy” appears not to exist within galaxies. According to accepted gravitational and rotational formulas, galaxies need undetectable “dark matter” to hold them together. (If someone with a logical, enquiring mind (MoreCoffee comes to mind, in Pedrito’s mind) looked closely at those formulae as applied to galaxies, would that person detect the same logical flaw that Pedrito seems to have found?)

And why hasn’t the “dark matter” already squashed those galaxies that have little or no rotation and therefore have no centrifugal force to resist it? Does the detected apparent flaw in one of the formulae explain it all?

And if other galaxies are moving away from us predictably and uniformly in all directions, does that not mean that we are located at the point of the “Big Bang”? Where does astronomical science say the location of the “Big Bang” was? (Is the true explanation the same as that related to “dark matter” above?)

==============================================================================================

Now, with respect to some of the comments made in this thread (and elsewhere): One thing that puzzles Pedrito is that the Bible states with definiteness that the wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23a) That is why the death sentence was passed on humanity. (Genesis 2:17; 3:19) That is why people die. And, until rescue from death was provided by God via the arrival, death and resurrection of His Son (Romans 6:23b; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22), that death was eternal, without remedy. Thus the wages had been paid.

Now we find that because Jesus took all our sins upon Himself and paid for them by His unrequired (personally unnecessary) death (Isaiah 53:4-6; 1 Timothy 2:3-4), every dead person will as a consequence get their lives back via resurrection (although some dispute that). And suddenly those people have to pay all over again for the sins that they have already paid for – sins that in fact have been transferred to (laid on) someone else, anyway.

Pedrito cannot help but wonder at this.


There's some validity there...


While SOME give "science" a near god-like status (it was far more so in the 50's and 60's I understand), THEORETICALLY (and when science is at its best), science is actually very humble. There's a good reason for that: 1) "Proof" is virtually impossible, 2) science works with a lot of assumptions that can't be proven, 3) a LOT of what scientist learned in college is now thought to be false ("Science is like weather - wait awhile and it will all be different")

But in reality, there's LOTS of ego in science.... Some of this is fueled by 1) Money: Scientists make their money by grants, and grants only come to labs or scientists who seem to be onto something and who have a grasp on truth. 2) Assurance: Scientists who frame things as "this MAY be...." "It COULD be....." seem uncertain and they don't get money (see #1), thus scientist report things as certain (although this mandates a LOT more research! A grant app is on it's way).

While scientist will passionately deny it, there IS a "religion" at work here. There are assumptions (including the basic one that this is a closed system - no room for any "god" or miracles or mystery). And there are dogmas (thoughts that are not permitted to be challenged).

All that said.... I think there ARE things that need to be acknowledged. To this point here, yup SOMETHING dramatic happened roughly 14 billion years ago - unless the speed of light changed over the years (etc.); there IS good evidence our solar system is roughly 5 billion years old. Sorry.... if that conflicts with some personal interpretation of Genesis chapters 1 or 2, I'm genuinely sorry but at least theoretically consider the possibility that the interpretation is amiss rather than the chronology. Humility applies to all; if scientists can be wrong than so can others? Remember when Christians were taught the world is small, flat and square.... until Magellan sailed around the world? Humility works for all. We all can embrace DOGMAS without a good basis. That's NOT an endorsement for relativism; it is an endorsement for humility.
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,927
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Yet in the resurrection everybody will be that old "in no time" and will soon be 100 times older then 1,000,000 times older and then 1,000,000,000 times older and so on to infinitely older.


?
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,205
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Like the old saying ... Location, location, location ... where you spend that time makes all the difference.

Do you think you will forget the first thousand million years by the time you are in your 100,000,000th thousand million years? Will your memory be infinitely capacious as well a completely accurate? Could one become bored in heaven?
 
Top Bottom