“Eternal Salvation”

[NetChaplain]

There is only one strain of salvation--"Eternal salvation" (Heb 5:9), which is an "everlasting consolation" (2Th 2:16) and an "eternal glory" (2Ti 2:10). If it's not permanent it's not salvation, for the crux of salvation designs the intention of being in permanent and unbroken fellowship with God, which only Christianity provides. In Christianity, one who is reborn is identified by God working within, which keep us from ever again willing after the sin nature (old man) - Phl 2:13); and this is a permanent work, as nothing God does in Christ for the Christian is temporary (Rom 11:29).

The way of the Law for the believing Jews was works related, as forgiveness was granted for obedience maintained, but withdrawn in disobedience persisted. But God always caused the believers to return to Him. This works-type method gives rise to self-dependence in believers today, misunderstanding the difference between the two administrations. In the New Covenant the Spirit of God indwells the believer and uses the Life of Christ and the nature "created" in His image (Col 3:10) to "keep you from falling" (Jde 1:24). Thus one who is only nominally professing Christianity (Mat 15:8) will eventually apostatize (revealing faithlessness), as the "fruit" will always manifest the "tree" (Mat 12:33).

Lacking an administrative differentiation between the two Covenants is only one of a believer's difficulty. The other is the difficulty that results in misunderstanding certain Scriptures that seem to conflict with one another (but never really do), esp. those concerning the permanency of salvation, and the most important growth truths are going to be the most difficulty to learn. It is this appearance of contradiction, though all are actually in agreement, that teaches the Bible student to remain in persistent study and prayer for guidance in "the Word of Truth" (2Ti 2:15).

One of many examples is Gal 5:4: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." I believe the point of this passage is like saying, "It would be as though you have fallen from grace, if you could be justified by the Law." As we know, Scripture repeatedly makes it clear that the Law's intention was not to justify but to reveal what justification is, for "a man is not justified by the works of the law" (Gal 2:16; Gal 3:11).

It might be said that one cannot fall from grace any more than one could be justified by the Law: “Whosoever of you are justified by the law” – ‘on the supposition that any of you are justified by the Law; or if, as you seem to suppose, any are justified by the Law. The apostle does not say that this had in fact ever occurred; but he merely makes a supposition. If such a thing should or could occur, it would follow that you had fallen from grace’” (Albert Barnes – 1798- 1870).

“Ye are fallen from grace”; ‘that is, either from that grace which they professed to have; for there might be some in these churches, as in others, who were only nominal Christians, and formal professors; who had declared they saw themselves lost and undone sinners, destitute of a righteousness, and professed to believe in Christ alone for righteousness and strength, but now trusted in themselves, and in the works of the law.’” – John Gill (1697-1771)​

 

[NetChaplain]

Myself, I see Scripture intending the profession of one's belief (1Ti 6:12), which may be genuine or eventually discover not genuine, and this is where most of the confusion lies. We start with our profession and if it's genuine it will never stop, thus when one stops confessing faith, that is, leaves the outward practice of it and never returns, the profession was not genuine, thus the person was not reborn (apostatize).

Therefore it's my understanding that one who "departs" (1Ti 4:1) or "falls away" (2Th 2:3) it is one who is willingly ceasing from a hypocritical profession, e.g. leaving not salvation but a false profession of salvation, because only genuine professions continue without ceasing.

Good example might be Jhn 15:1, Jesus used the phrase "Every branch in Me":

Gill- "There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ; though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace."

John 15 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

Study John 15 using John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible to better understand Scripture with full outline and verse meaning.

www.christianity.com

 

[Pedrito]

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People tend to overlook (or want to overlook) 1 John 5:16:
“If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.”. (NIV)

True believers are told that they have the responsibility to discern whether or not another believer is straying from their assigned path, and whether or not another believer has turned their backs on their commitment and is headed for a sticky end.

That indicates indelibly and irrevocably that falling away from once-true faith is both possible and to be expected of some.

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Jesus Himself stated that believers who endure to the end shall be saved. (Matthew 10:22 (Mirrored in Mark 13:13) and Matthew 24:13). (All NIV)

And in His letter to the believers in Ephesus, He states:
“To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God”. Revelation 2:7. (NIV)

And in His letter to the believers in Syrna, He clarifies the scope of that statement:
“Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life”. Revelation 2:10. (NIV)

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Many people try to explain away those plain statements, or try to wriggle out of their responsibility (e.g. because the concept contradicts their cherished belief). They do so by invoking Jesus’ statements about not judging (Matthew 7:1; Luke 6:37), and statements about believers having the status of overcomers (Romans 8:37; 1 John 5:4,5).

But God foresaw that approach, and arranged for its superficiality to be clearly revealed in His Holy message to us. For instance:
Revelation 2:11 (NIV): “He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death”.
Revelation 2:17 (NIV): “To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it” .
Revelation 3:5 (NIV): “He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.”
Revelation 3:12 (NIV): “Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name”.
Revelation 3:21 (NIV): “To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne”
Revelation 21:7 (NIV): “He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son”.

“Predestination” as it is taught by some denominations, and by sub-groups within other denominations, (some of which claim they are “evangelical”, and some of which claim that membership ensures being part of the Body of Christ), can appear to rest on a selective set of Holy Writ in each case.

Starting with what Holy Scripture says, and seeing where that leads, is a welcome antithesis of the common divisive approach where selective Holy Scripture is invoked to support established doctrine. Is that not so?

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[NetChaplain]

People tend to overlook (or want to overlook) 1 John 5:16:
“If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that.”. (NIV)

True believers are told that they have the responsibility to discern whether or not another believer is straying from their assigned path, and whether or not another believer has turned their backs on their commitment and is headed for a sticky end.

That indicates indelibly and irrevocably that falling away from once-true faith is both possible and to be expected of some.

Appreciate the reply and like how you clearly present your comments! It's my understanding that since "brother" can be in reference to the natural or spiritual usage depending on the context (Strong's Greek G80, adlephos G80 - adelphos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)). This passage is not directly clear to many Bible commentators as to which usage is intended, but It's my acceptance that it's in reference to the physical usage, to which the Jews were always accustomed.

To me, the "sin unto death" here can be in reference to suicide or blasphemy against God's Spirit, neither of which are known to be among believers.

Jesus Himself stated that believers who endure to the end shall be saved. (Matthew 10:22 (Mirrored in Mark 13:13) and Matthew 24:13). (All NIV)

And in His letter to the believers in Ephesus, He states:
“To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God”. Revelation 2:7. (NIV)

And in His letter to the believers in Syrna, He clarifies the scope of that statement:
“Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life”. Revelation 2:10. (NIV)

It's my understanding that "enduring to the end" is an evidence of a believer, not a means of retaining salvation, for there's nothing one can do to effect nor retain salvation. It's He who imparts salvation that ensures it "to the end" (2Th 3:3). Evidence of one falsely professing Christianity is cessation of professing it, which confirms absence of rebirth for. Continuing in the faith of Christ manifests a true or "good profession" (1Th 5:24).

“Predestination” as it is taught by some denominations, and by sub-groups within other denominations, (some of which claim they are “evangelical”, and some of which claim that membership ensures being part of the Body of Christ), can appear to rest on a selective set of Holy Writ in each case.

Starting with what Holy Scripture says, and seeing where that leads, is a welcome antithesis of the common divisive approach where selective Holy Scripture is invoked to support established doctrine. Is that not so?

My take on predestination is that from eternity past God foreknows all who will choose Him, and therefore they are destined to eternal life.

 

[Lamb]

Appreciate the reply and like how you clearly present your comments! It's my understanding that since "brother" can be in reference to the natural or spiritual usage depending on the context (Strong's Greek G80, adlephos G80 - adelphos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)). This passage is not directly clear to many Bible commentators as to which usage is intended, but It's my acceptance that it's in reference to the physical usage, to which the Jews were always accustomed.

To me, the "sin unto death" here can be in reference to suicide or blasphemy against God's Spirit, neither of which are known to be among believers.


It's my understanding that "enduring to the end" is an evidence of a believer, not a means of retaining salvation, for there's nothing one can do to effect nor retain salvation. It's He who imparts salvation that ensures it "to the end" (2Th 3:3). Evidence of one falsely professing Christianity is cessation of professing it, which confirms absence of rebirth for. Continuing in the faith of Christ manifests a true or "good profession" (1Th 5:24).

My take on predestination is that from eternity past God foreknows all who will choose Him, and therefore they are destined to eternal life.

Why is it that in one breath you say that "there's nothing one can do to effect nor retain salvation" and in the next say "who will choose Him, and therefore they are destined to eternal life." ? Choosing is in effect DOING something which is why salvation is not about us choosing God. He chose us.

 

[NetChaplain]

Why is it that in one breath you say that "there's nothing one can do to effect nor retain salvation" and in the next say "who will choose Him, and therefore they are destined to eternal life." ? Choosing is in effect DOING something which is why salvation is not about us choosing God. He chose us.

Understand your point and well put, but my point is that we can only receive not produce or retain. God gives us salvation only to keep us in it (1Th 5:24; 1Ti 6:12; 2Ti 1:12, 4:18; 1Pe 1:5; Jde 1:24). Who He saves He keeps!

To me it isn't sensible to conceive (not suspecting any individual who does) God would give salvation to one He knows will not want it.

 

[Lamb]

Understand your point and well put, but my point is that we can only receive not produce or retain. God gives us salvation only to keep us in it (1Th 5:24; 1Ti 6:12; 2Ti 1:12, 4:18; 1Pe 1:5; Jde 1:24). Who He saves He keeps!

To me it isn't sensible to conceive (not suspecting any individual who does) God would give salvation to one He knows will not want it.

The Gospel is actually foolishness to unbelievers....so no one really wants it until faith is first given by God's grace. So there is no choosing by us truly.

 

[NetChaplain]

The Gospel is actually foolishness to unbelievers....so no one really wants it until faith is first given by God's grace. So there is no choosing by us truly.

Always like the way you comment in a direct manner and applicability of the issue at hand! The Gospel will always be senseless to one who will always be unregenerate (1Co 2:14). Concerning choice, I believe it's the accountable element supporting God's right to condemn, e.g. Adam and the Tree, etc. exemplified by passages such as Deu 30:19; Psa 119:30 et al. Not to oppose your opinion but to present mine, Jesus said, "If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin" (Jhn 15:24). I see no other reason for this statement than to establish a choice.

It's my understanding that a sinner can desire to be right with God even if for selfish reasons (e.g. avoid judgement), but the "desire" God gives to "draw" souls to Christ is what must be given; which if genuinely requested is given (Luk 11:13).

Also, I appreciate your site labors in Christ!

 

[Lamb]

Always like the way you comment in a direct manner and applicability of the issue at hand! The Gospel will always be senseless to one who will always be unregenerate (1Co 2:14). Concerning choice, I believe it's the accountable element supporting God's right to condemn, e.g. Adam and the Tree, etc. exemplified by passages such as Deu 30:19; Psa 119:30 et al. Not to oppose your opinion but to present mine, Jesus said, "If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin" (Jhn 15:24). I see no other reason for this statement than to establish a choice.

It's my understanding that a sinner can desire to be right with God even if for selfish reasons (e.g. avoid judgement), but the "desire" God gives to "draw" souls to Christ is what must be given; which if genuinely requested is given (Luk 11:13).

Also, I appreciate your site labors in Christ!

A sinner can desire to be right with God? I guess I don't know what you are trying to say by that.

The unregenerate doesn't believe in God so he doesn't care to "be right" with Him. The only way to "be right" is by having faith. God does that without our choice of Him. I really don't see how you are saying that the unregenerate can "choose" God by way of the verse John 15:24? God isn't waiting for sinners to ask him into our hearts if that's the direction you're going? God is the one who is active, we receive that which He gives. He doesn't wait for our permission.

 

[NetChaplain]

A sinner can desire to be right with God? I guess I don't know what you are trying to say by that.

The unregenerate doesn't believe in God so he doesn't care to "be right" with Him. The only way to "be right" is by having faith. God does that without our choice of Him. I really don't see how you are saying that the unregenerate can "choose" God by way of the verse John 15:24? God isn't waiting for sinners to ask him into our hearts if that's the direction you're going? God is the one who is active, we receive that which He gives. He doesn't wait for our permission.

Just saying that God doesn't overcome a soul without "asking" and "seeking" for Him (Mat 7:7, 8).

 

[Lamb]

Just saying that God doesn't overcome a soul without "asking" and "seeking" for Him (Mat 7:7, 8).

Neither of those verses say that "God doesn't overcome a soul without "asking" and "seeking" for Him".
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Where does it say God doesn't overcome a soul without that person doing the request first? It doesn't.

If YOU have to do something first, then it becomes a work and reliant on you instead of by God's grace.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Why are Christians told to avoid sin?
Galatians 5:21-23
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and to suffer?
Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone but to suffer for Christ’s sake