The Augsburg Confession

hobie · Nov 28, 2019

I was reading when I came across something on the Augsburg Confession...'Sola Scriptura gets shut down at the Council of Trent - via the Augsburg Confession'..."there was a strong movement at the Council of Trent in favor of having the Catholic church adopt the standard of sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice. The council was adopting some counter-reformation initiatives to remove questionable practices within the RCC and hopefully stop the steady flow of defections from the RCC over to the Protesting Catholics that were following men like Martin Luther.

It was argued that if the Roman Catholic Church adopted sola-scriptura as their standard the Protestant movement would have very little to go on - and it would begin to fizzle out. A letter was sent to the Pope that they were very close to adopting the standard of sola scriptura.

But then the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he proved that the Protestants following Luther and adopting the Augsburg Confession - had in fact confessed that tradition was of a higher authority than scripture.

Here is the pertinent part""The Bible and the Bible only," were the watchwords of the Protestants.
"The Bible as interpreted by the Church and according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers," this was the position and claim of the Catholic Church.

Back and forth the arguments flowed. There were strong advocates for the Bible only, even among Catholics within the council. The Papal authorities became very worried as the debate continued day after day.

Then on January 18, 1562 Archbishop Reggio came with an argument that completely took the wind out of the sails of the Protestants and won the battle for tradition over the Bible.

"The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatized from the written word of God and follows tradition. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith, IS FALSE. Proof: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they do truly hold to Scripture alone as their standard, they would be observing the seventh day as is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the Church. Consequently the claim of :Scripture alone as the standard,' fails; and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition' as essential, is fully established, the Protestants themselves being the judges."

The Protestants had no answer. They themselves had admitted that Sunday was a child of the Papacy, yet they were worshiping upon it, rather than upon the Sabbath day.

The Catholic scholars were elated, the advocates for "Scripture alone," surrendered, and the council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism and the whole Reformation as only an unwarranted revolt from the communion and authority of the Catholic Church, and proceeded to other matters."

http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/reformation1.html

http://biblelight.net/bssb-1443-1444.htm

http://www.yashanet.com/library/reformf.htm

So if the Protestants themselves confessed to not fully supporting sola-scriptura then the Catholics would not need to do it at all....

Lamb · Nov 28, 2019

It appears you don't realize that Lutherans say that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. So we DO keep the Sabbath holy when we worship Him, the King who died for the forgiveness of our sins. We go to services on Sunday, not because of a command but because we have our rest in Christ who rose from the dead on Sunday. It's a way of saying we believe in the resurrection of the dead because we as believers look to our own resurrection from the dead when Christ returns.

Do you believe that Jesus is your rest?

Particular · Nov 28, 2019

hobie said:
I was reading when I came across something on the Augsburg Confession...'Sola Scriptura gets shut down at the Council of Trent - via the Augsburg Confession'..."there was a strong movement at the Council of Trent in favor of having the Catholic church adopt the standard of sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice. The council was adopting some counter-reformation initiatives to remove questionable practices within the RCC and hopefully stop the steady flow of defections from the RCC over to the Protesting Catholics that were following men like Martin Luther.

It was argued that if the Roman Catholic Church adopted sola-scriptura as their standard the Protestant movement would have very little to go on - and it would begin to fizzle out. A letter was sent to the Pope that they were very close to adopting the standard of sola scriptura.

But then the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he proved that the Protestants following Luther and adopting the Augsburg Confession - had in fact confessed that tradition was of a higher authority than scripture.

Here is the pertinent part""The Bible and the Bible only," were the watchwords of the Protestants.
"The Bible as interpreted by the Church and according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers," this was the position and claim of the Catholic Church.

Back and forth the arguments flowed. There were strong advocates for the Bible only, even among Catholics within the council. The Papal authorities became very worried as the debate continued day after day.

Then on January 18, 1562 Archbishop Reggio came with an argument that completely took the wind out of the sails of the Protestants and won the battle for tradition over the Bible.

"The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatized from the written word of God and follows tradition. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith, IS FALSE. Proof: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they do truly hold to Scripture alone as their standard, they would be observing the seventh day as is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the Church. Consequently the claim of :Scripture alone as the standard,' fails; and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition' as essential, is fully established, the Protestants themselves being the judges."

The Protestants had no answer. They themselves had admitted that Sunday was a child of the Papacy, yet they were worshiping upon it, rather than upon the Sabbath day.

The Catholic scholars were elated, the advocates for "Scripture alone," surrendered, and the council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism and the whole Reformation as only an unwarranted revolt from the communion and authority of the Catholic Church, and proceeded to other matters."

http://biblelight.net/bssb-1443-1444.htm

http://www.yashanet.com/library/reformf.htm

So if the Protestants themselves confessed to not fully supporting sola-scriptura then the Catholics would not need to do it at all....

Wow, those Protestants were dumb weren't they. If only they had pointed out the New Covenant and how the Mosaic Law was no longer applied as law they wouldn't have been stumped. Clearly the fellows of the mid-1500s were intellectual weaklings. [emoji6]
hobie are you a 7th Day Adventist?

Josiah · Nov 28, 2019

hobie said:
I was reading when I came across something on the Augsburg Confession...'Sola Scriptura gets shut down at the Council of Trent - via the Augsburg Confession'..."there was a strong movement at the Council of Trent in favor of having the Catholic church adopt the standard of sola scriptura testing of all doctrine and practice. The council was adopting some counter-reformation initiatives to remove questionable practices within the RCC and hopefully stop the steady flow of defections from the RCC over to the Protesting Catholics that were following men like Martin Luther.

It was argued that if the Roman Catholic Church adopted sola-scriptura as their standard the Protestant movement would have very little to go on - and it would begin to fizzle out. A letter was sent to the Pope that they were very close to adopting the standard of sola scriptura.

But then the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he proved that the Protestants following Luther and adopting the Augsburg Confession - had in fact confessed that tradition was of a higher authority than scripture.

Here is the pertinent part""The Bible and the Bible only," were the watchwords of the Protestants.
"The Bible as interpreted by the Church and according to the unanimous consent of the Fathers," this was the position and claim of the Catholic Church.

Back and forth the arguments flowed. There were strong advocates for the Bible only, even among Catholics within the council. The Papal authorities became very worried as the debate continued day after day.

Then on January 18, 1562 Archbishop Reggio came with an argument that completely took the wind out of the sails of the Protestants and won the battle for tradition over the Bible.

"The Protestants claim to stand upon the written word only. They profess to hold the Scripture alone as the standard of faith. They justify their revolt by the plea that the church has apostatized from the written word of God and follows tradition. Their profession of holding the Scripture alone as the standard of faith, IS FALSE. Proof: The written word explicitly enjoins the observance of the seventh day as the Sabbath. They do not observe the seventh day, but reject it. If they do truly hold to Scripture alone as their standard, they would be observing the seventh day as is enjoined in the Scripture throughout. Yet they not only reject the observance of the Sabbath, but they have adopted and do practice the observance of Sunday, for which they have only the tradition of the Church. Consequently the claim of :Scripture alone as the standard,' fails; and the doctrine of ‘Scripture and tradition' as essential, is fully established, the Protestants themselves being the judges."

The Protestants had no answer. They themselves had admitted that Sunday was a child of the Papacy, yet they were worshiping upon it, rather than upon the Sabbath day.

The Catholic scholars were elated, the advocates for "Scripture alone," surrendered, and the council at once unanimously condemned Protestantism and the whole Reformation as only an unwarranted revolt from the communion and authority of the Catholic Church, and proceeded to other matters."

http://biblelight.net/bssb-1443-1444.htm

http://www.yashanet.com/library/reformf.htm

So if the Protestants themselves confessed to not fully supporting sola-scriptura then the Catholics would not need to do it at all....

You reveal a pretty big lack of understanding of Sola Scriptura.... and of the RCC's required rejection of it. https://christianityhaven.com/showt...riptura-quot-The-Rule-of-Scripture-in-Norming

Both articles are just a lot of Saturday nonsense... and has nothing to do with the Reformation or the Augsburg Confession but are just another way to interject Saturday nonsense under the guise of something else. Knock it off.

.

Michael · Nov 28, 2019

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.
Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord." - Rom 14:5-6

Personally, I am convinced in what I believe, and the Scripture confirms it.

The Lord gave me opportunity earlier this year to teach a series on the Sabbath, and it was very enlightening, as I studied, prayed, prepared and shared. For the seventh day Sabbath observation, as with the other commandments, was only a shadow of things Eternal.
May we not limit ourselves to worshiping God one day a week, but by "presenting our bodies a living sacrifice" acknowledge, honor and worship Him every minute of every day of every week. Amen!

“The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” - Mark 2:27-28

hobie · Nov 29, 2019

Sola Scriptura (Latin: by scripture alone) is a theological doctrine held by some Christian denominations that the Christian scriptures are the sole source of authority for Christian faith and practice.........

"Martin Luther originally launched his protest against the church over the issue of indulgences. He wanted a debate. While he was involved in various disputations in the wake of posting the Ninety-Five Theses, he finally got a real and true debate at Leipzig. Over the summer months, Luther squared off with Johann Eck, Rome’s premier theologian. Over the course of the debate, Luther declared the Reformation plank of sola Scriptura, the firm and unwavering commitment to the absolute authority of Scripture. Luther’s writings and the reports of these debates convinced Pope Leo X that this German monk was a heretic. The date and the time was set for the ultimate showdown: April 17–18, 1521, at the Imperial Diet, or meeting, at Worms.

Worms is another one of those moments that we all wish we could have seen first-hand. Luther, adorned in his simple monk’s garb, stood before—and against—princes and nobles, cardinals and priests, all wearing the trappings of their offices. On the throne sat the twenty-one-year-old Charles V, the Holy Roman emperor. Luther’s books were spread out on a table before him. He was commanded, “Revoco!” —to recant his writings, to recant his views of sola fide (faith alone as the instrument of justification) and of sola Scriptura. That was April 17. Luther asked for a day to consider, and he was granted it. He spent the night in prayer and appeared again the next day. Then, he delivered his famous speech:

I am bound to the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. I cannot do otherwise. Here I stand. May God help me. Amen."

If you declare that your creed, confession, or articles of faith are based on Sola Scriptura, and then turn from it to follow tradition, there is great danger.

Christ was clear on this...
Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Lamb · Nov 29, 2019

Adiaphora is a word that means it's neither forbidden nor commanded by scripture. As Christians we are free to worship any and every day because Christ is our Sabbath rest. Is HE YOURS?

hobie · Nov 29, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Adiaphora is a word that means it's neither forbidden nor commanded by scripture. As Christians we are free to worship any and every day because Christ is our Sabbath rest. Is HE YOURS?

Can you find the word in scripture for me... it isn't there, so who decides...

Sola Scriptura or the “The Bible and the Bible only” was the fundamental premise of the Protestant reformers, whether Luther in Germany, Zwingli and Calvin in Switzerland, or Farel in France. In other words, for the Reformers the Bible replaced human authorities. But as we can see, the Reformers had difficulty accepting the entire Bible, and we can see how tradition held them back.

Now lets look at what it says on those who put aside what God has set because of the traditions of man...

Matthew 15:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition

We cannot trust in the traditions of man, Gods word must come first, and its even a greater danger when we transgress Gods Commandments which He wrote with His own finger.

Josiah · Nov 29, 2019

hobie said:
Sola Scriptura (Latin: by scripture alone) is a theological doctrine held by some Christian denominations that the Christian scriptures are the sole source of authority for Christian faith and practice.........

You reveal an ignorance as to the praxis of Sola Scriptura. See https://christianityhaven.com/showth...ure-in-Norming

"Martin Luther originally launched his protest against the church over the issue of indulgences. He wanted a debate.

You offer a quote but don't give the reference.

Actually, it began with his doing his job: The was a designated "Doctor of the Church" with the assignment of noting false doctrine and reporting that. Orginally it was NOT indulgences per se but the THEOLOGY being preached by the indulgence sellers. It was synergistic and semi-Pelagian and a violation of the Council of Orange (etc.). He simply and respectfully noted the false teaching - expecting only to be thanked and for the bishop to take action of correction. Instead, he was ignored and then the indulgence sellers were actually defended. THAT is caused Luther to begin his questioning of what was going on.... the Church was defending obvious false doctrine. Yes, by late 1517, this lead to issues he wanted discussed (purely academically at the university) but none of those issues was indulgences or the praxis of Sola Scriptura.

Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Tradition, per se, is not necessarily wrong. False teaching is wrong. Jesus was condemning rules the Pharisees had developed - interpretations of the Law - which were false. Rather like modern Pharisees who interpret the Law to say we can only publicly worship on Saturday, that kind of tradition that is simply false teaching.

.

hobie · Nov 29, 2019

Josiah said:
You reveal an ignorance as to the praxis of Sola Scriptura. See https://christianityhaven.com/showth...ure-in-Norming

You offer a quote but don't give the reference.

Actually, it began with his doing his job: The was a designated "Doctor of the Church" with the assignment of noting false doctrine and reporting that. Orginally it was NOT indulgences per se but the THEOLOGY being preached by the indulgence sellers. It was synergistic and semi-Pelagian and a violation of the Council of Orange (etc.). He simply and respectfully noted the false teaching - expecting only to be thanked and for the bishop to take action of correction. Instead, he was ignored and then the indulgence sellers were actually defended. THAT is caused Luther to begin his questioning of what was going on.... the Church was defending obvious false doctrine. Yes, by late 1517, this lead to issues he wanted discussed (purely academically at the university) but none of those issues was indulgences or the praxis of Sola Scriptura.

Tradition, per se, is not necessarily wrong. False teaching is wrong. Jesus was condemning rules the Pharisees had developed - interpretations of the Law - which were false. Rather like modern Pharisees who interpret the Law to say we can only publicly worship on Saturday, that kind of tradition that is simply false teaching.

.

Let me see if I can find it again...

But, its clear that Sunday stands upon the authority of tradition, the Sabbath stands upon the authority of the commandments of God.
So we have to make a choice and there is no way around that....

Andrew · Nov 29, 2019

Lämmchen said:
It appears you don't realize that Lutherans say that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. So we DO keep the Sabbath holy when we worship Him, the King who died for the forgiveness of our sins. We go to services on Sunday, not because of a command but because we have our rest in Christ who rose from the dead on Sunday. It's a way of saying we believe in the resurrection of the dead because we as believers look to our own resurrection from the dead when Christ returns.

Do you believe that Jesus is your rest?

Yes yes and yes! Sabbath became Law in Moses time but Christ fulfilled the Law and in Him we are fulfilled and He is our rest, I doubt any SDA truly stays home on saturday and sits on their hands, for if they lift up a bundle of sticks they must sacrifice an animal on the alter to cover their temporal sin :/ and we aren't even Jewish, we are gentile, did God wish for all Christians to convert to rabbinic Judaism?
Was Noah a Jew? What does his name mean btw?

hobie · Nov 29, 2019

Andrew said:
Yes yes and yes! Sabbath became Law in Moses time but Christ fulfilled the Law and in Him we are fulfilled and He is our rest, I doubt any SDA truly stays home on saturday and sits on their hands, for if they lift up a bundle of sticks they must sacrifice an animal on the alter to cover their temporal sin :/ and we aren't even Jewish, we are gentile, did God wish for all Christians to convert to rabbinic Judaism?
Was Noah a Jew? What does his name mean btw?

I set up a new thread https://www.christianityhaven.com/s...l-us-to-worship-on-Sunday&p=182257#post182257 to go over that so as not to derail this thread, as they never seem to cease coming, and there are many other ideas people have come up to set aside Gods Commandments..

As for Noah...https://www.behindthename.com/name/noah-1

Lamb · Nov 30, 2019

hobie said:
Let me see if I can find it again...

But, its clear that Sunday stands upon the authority of tradition, the Sabbath stands upon the authority of the commandments of God.
So we have to make a choice and there is no way around that....

Is Jesus your Sabbath rest? It should be an easy answer.

hobie · Nov 30, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Is Jesus your Sabbath rest? It should be an easy answer.

What day was given for rest at Creation, also read what I put in the new thread https://www.christianityhaven.com/sh...257#post182257

Lamb · Nov 30, 2019

hobie said:
What day was given for rest at Creation, also read what I put in the new thread https://www.christianityhaven.com/sh...257#post182257

WHO was given to us for our eternal rest? Who was promised to Adam? Don't be so focused on a day that you miss the reason.

hobie · Nov 30, 2019

Lämmchen said:
WHO was given to us for our eternal rest? Who was promised to Adam? Don't be so focused on a day that you miss the reason.

First we have to understand Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a “day” in the Bible, so this does not negate the Sabbath. Jesus is linked to being "the vine", "the lamb", "the door", "the rock" and many other things but never, not once, a "day". We must stick to the Bible and the Bible only. To "rest in Jesus" actually has three meanings, to rest on the Sabbath day which the Creator made for man, to be one of the righteous dead and Jesus can give us spiritual rest.

This idea being advance that "Jesus is my rest" is based on false assumptions, here is a good explanation....

"The third argument commonly used to negate the continuity of the Sabbath is based on the assumption that Christ fulfilled and terminated the messianic typologies of the Sabbath by becoming our Sabbath rest. Consequently, the contention is that Christians no longer need to observe the Sabbath literally by resting physically on the seventh day, because the Savior, to whom the Sabbath rest pointed, has come and fulfilled His typological function. Christ offers believers everyday the salvation-rest typified by the Sabbath. They say things like "The new covenant believer is to rejoice in God's rest continually. He does not have to wait until the end of the week."

His proposition is that Christ's provocatory method of Sabbathkeeping was designed to show how old covenant law, including Sabbath law, points to Him, rather than to clarify appropriate Sabbath behavior or a correct interpretation of old covenant Sabbath law.

There are four major problems with this popular view. First, it misinterprets the meaning of the Sabbath in the Gospels. An objective reading of Christ's provocative manner of Sabbathkeeping reveals that His intent was not to nullify but to clarify the meaning of the Fourth Commandment. Repeatedly in the Gospels Christ acts as the supreme interpreter of the Law by attacking external obedience and human traditions which often had obscured the spirit and intent of God's commandments (Matt 5:21-22, 27-28; 9:13; 12:7; 23:1-39).

It is noteworthy that in all instances where Christ or His disciples were accused of Sabbathbreaking, He defended their conduct—often by appealing to the Scripture ("Have you not read . . . "—Matt 12:3, 5)—and then showing that their actions were in harmony with the divine intent of the Sabbath. An attentive reading of the Sabbath pronouncements where Christ declares the Sabbath to be a day "to do good" (Matt 12:12), "to save life" (Mark 3:4), to show "mercy" rather than religiosity (Matt 12:7) and "to loose" men and women from physical and spiritual bonds (Luke 13:16), offers an unmistakable proof of Christ's intent to clarify and not to nullify the Sabbath.

Second, to contend that the weekly experience of the Sabbath rest and liberation from work was intended only for the Jews to aid them in commemorating creation and in experiencing the future Messianic redemption to come, means to be blind to the fact that Christians need such an aid just as much as the Jews. The difference between the two is simply that while for the Jews the Sabbath rest pointed forward to the redemption rest of the Messiah to come, for the Christians the Sabbath rest points backward to the redemption rest of the Savior who has come and forward to the final restoration rest that still awaits for the people of God (Heb 4:9). Third, to maintain that "New Covenant" Christians observe the Sabbath spiritually as a daily experience of salvation-rest, and not literally as the observance of the seventh day, is to fail to recognize that the spiritual salvation-rest does not negate, but presupposes the physical Sabbath rest. God invites us to cease from our physical work on the Sabbath so that we may enter more fully and freely into His spiritual rest (Heb 4:10). Physical elements, such as the water in baptism, the bread and wine in the Lord's Supper, and the physical rest on the Sabbath, are not superfluous. They are designed to help us conceptualize and internalize the spiritual realities they represent.

Fourth, charges that literal seventh-day Sabbathkeeping reflects a cultic, sectarian, and legalistic mentality that distorts the Gospel of Christ and the authority of Scripture, ignores that a correct Biblical understanding and experience of the Sabbath can be a most powerful antidote against legalism and sectarianism. Why? Because the Sabbath teaches us not to work for our salvation (legalism), but to cease from all our works, in order, as Calvin so well expresses it, "to allow God to work in us." To rest on the Sabbath to give priority to God in our thinking and living, means to resign from our human effort to gain salvation, in order to allow the omnipotent grace God to work more fully and freely in our lives. Indeed, properly understood and observed the Sabbath epitomizes the Gospel, the Good News of God's invitation to cease from our works in order to enter into His rest (Heb 4:10).

Summing up, the coming of Christ is seen in the New Testament, not as the termination, but as the actualization, the realization of the redemptive typology of the Sabbath. Through His redemptive mission, Christ offers to believers the expected sabbatical "release" (Luke 4:18) and "rest" (Matt 11:28). In the light of the Cross, the Sabbath memorializes not only God's creative but also His redemptive accomplishments for mankind. Through the physical act of resting on the Sabbath we conceptualize, internalize, and appropriate the reality of salvation-rest. We celebrate God's creative and redemptive love.."http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/sabbath/bacchiocchi-2.htm

Michael · Nov 30, 2019

Lämmchen said:
It appears you don't realize that Lutherans say that Jesus is our Sabbath rest. So we DO keep the Sabbath holy when we worship Him, the King who died for the forgiveness of our sins. We go to services on Sunday, not because of a command but because we have our rest in Christ who rose from the dead on Sunday. It's a way of saying we believe in the resurrection of the dead because we as believers look to our own resurrection from the dead when Christ returns.

Do you believe that Jesus is your rest?

The Lutheran Theology is still man's understanding. In the end, we can only go by what the Word declares. We have not yet the "rest of God." As with our entire walk with Jesus, we must do something to "enter the rest of God." We're not there yet, we must "strive" or "make every effort" to enter that rest. Jesus cannot do it for us, and that rest will only come to those who prove themselves faithful by their obedience. Jesus, Himself, is there, now eternally abiding in the "rest of God"; and He will help us attain, but the effort must be ours, the obedience must be ours, if we are to receive the promise. As the Word tells us -

"Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account." - Heb 4:1-13

I know some will not agree, but just know that it is not I with whom you will be disagreeing, but with the written Word of God.
There is much more to be said on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I've spent weeks teaching on the Sabbath and the Rest of God in our church, and indeed the Truth of it far surpasses the elementary understanding of the churches at large today.

God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.

Andrew · Nov 30, 2019

Michael said:
The Lutheran Theology is still man's understanding. In the end, we can only go by what the Word declares. We have not yet the "rest of God." As with our entire walk with Jesus, we must do something to "enter the rest of God." We're not there yet, we must "strive" or "make every effort" to enter that rest. Jesus cannot do it for us, and that rest will only come to those who prove themselves faithful by their obedience. Jesus, Himself, is there, now eternally abiding in the "rest of God"; and He will help us attain, but the effort must be ours, the obedience must be ours, if we are to receive the promise. As the Word tells us -

"Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account." - Heb 4:1-13

I know some will not agree, but just know that it is not I with whom you will be disagreeing, but with the written Word of God.
There is much more to be said on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I've spent weeks teaching on the Sabbath and the Rest of God in our church, and indeed the Truth of it far surpasses the elementary understanding of the churches at large today.

God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.

I got lost around the "We aren't there yet, we must..." part, sounds like we must help Jesus fullfil His mission

Michael · Dec 1, 2019

Andrew said:
I got lost around the "We aren't there yet, we must..." part, sounds like we must help Jesus fullfil His mission

As the writer of Hebrews exhorts believers to "labor to enter the rest of God", it appears we ain't there yet!

Plus, the term "Jesus is our rest", while it sounds appealing perhaps, is not found in the Bible. :scratchchin:

Gotta stick with the Scripture over the traditions of the modern church, even back to Luther.

And so I preach!

reach:

Lamb · Dec 1, 2019

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of Man is the Lord of the Sabbath.

There ya go. End of discussion.

The Augsburg Confession is more than just a document about the Sabbath so maybe some of you should go read it on the Book of Concord website.

The Augsburg Confession

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