World Trump's "final offer" for peace requires Ukraine to accept Russian occupation

Lucian Hodoboc

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What Russia gets under Trump's proposal​

  1. "De jure" U.S. recognition of Russian control in Crimea.
  2. "De-facto recognition" of the Russia's occupation of nearly all of Luhansk oblast and the occupied portions of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
  3. A promise that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The text notes that Ukraine could become part of the European Union.
  4. The lifting of sanctions imposed since 2014.
  5. Enhanced economic cooperation with the U.S., particularly in the energy and industrial sectors.

What Ukraine gets under Trump's proposal​

  1. "A robust security guarantee" involving an ad hoc group of European countries and potentially also like-minded non-European countries. The document is vague in terms of how this peacekeeping operation would function and does not mention any U.S. participation.
  2. The return of the small part of Kharkiv oblast Russia has occupied.
  3. Unimpeded passage of the Dnieper River, which runs along the front line in parts of southern Ukraine.
  4. Compensation and assistance for rebuilding, though the document does not say where the funding will come from.

Other elements of the plan​

  • The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant — the largest such facility in Europe — will be considered as Ukrainian territory but operated by the U.S., with electricity supplied to both Ukraine and Russia.
  • The document references the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal, which Trump has said will be signed on Thursday.

Trump's masterplan for ending the war "in 24 hours" (as he bragged all throughout his campaign) was to give the conquered Ukrainian territories to Russia, reject Ukraine's right to ever join NATO, and also get Ukraine's minerals for America. In exchange: Ukraine's security will be guaranteed by European countries with no mention of U.S. participation.

Truly "the art of the deal", ladies and gentlemen! Trump has the audacity to state that Ukraine started the war, that the war would have never started if he had been president instead of Biden, and that, had he been in Zelenskyy's shoes, he would have negotiated with Putin and avoided the war. How? Well, according to this "peace plan", it seems that he would have simply given Putin whatever territories he wanted and agreed to his demands regarding NATO.

This is the president you voted for: a coward who supports the idea that might makes right, that the strong should be allowed to do whatever they want and that the weak should never stand up to bullies. If you're a powerful country, Trump thinks that you should be allowed to attack weaker countries because they "don't have the cards", and if they try to defend themselves, they're "gambling with WW3". You, Americans, are lucky that America has nukes and no one would ever consider attacking you because, otherwise, Trump would definitely give the invading country American territories just to negotiate peace.
 

Frankj

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Lucian,

I hat to point it out but in this world might does make right. Europe has demonstrated this quite clearly for many centuries. History is written by the winner.

And Europe has plenty of nukes to use so it can hardly be considered weak.

My personal opinion is that we (the US) should simply stay out of the fight, I can't see it as our fight. NATO (particularly Germany and France from what I see here) seems to be suffering from a serious case of blood lust and crying out for war as loudly as it can while maintaining the appearance of wanting something else, something which doesn't seem to be clearly identifiable.

What I would like to see, for a number of reasons, some of which are Biblically inspired, is for the US to just get out of European involvement and leave NATO entirely. European problems are European problems, it's their problem, it's their part of the world, it needs to be their solution. Nothing good is going to come from American involvement.

What about yourself, do you find American involvement in your affairs desirable or undesirable, and why?

Peace be with you.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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I hat to point it out but in this world might does make right. Europe has demonstrated this quite clearly for many centuries. History is written by the winner.
Your country is living proof that that's not true. Remember the Vietnam war? You didn't win it, yet your narrative is what most of the world has been taught. Most of the world knows nothing about the version of history that the winners wrote. We know the version of history that the losers wrote.

My personal opinion is that we (the US) should simply stay out of the fight, I can't see it as our fight.
Please do! It would be nice if you could make your buffoon president apologize for siding with a dictator and blaming an invaded country for defending itself, as well as for blatantly lying about Crimea being taken by Russia without force, but hey, we can't have it all. Take your troops and your bases from Europe, please! The sooner, the better!

NATO (particularly Germany and France from what I see here) seems to be suffering from a serious case of blood lust and crying out for war as loudly as it can while maintaining the appearance of wanting something else, something which doesn't seem to be clearly identifiable.
This is absolute madness! You have either been indoctrinated by your MAGA cult leader or you are simply clueless about geopolitical affairs. There's not one single country in Europe besides Russia that wants war. No one does! We want to live in peace, but not a shameful peace in which we give territories to Russia in order to appease the expansionist desires of a dictator. How do you call yourself an American and not know what dignity is, for crying out loud? Learn your history! You were founded on the ideal of fighting for your freedom and for standing up to oppressors! How did you become such cowards all of a sudden under the Trump administration?
European problems are European problems, it's their problem, it's their part of the world, it needs to be their solution. Nothing good is going to come from American involvement.
So why are you getting involved in European politics, huh? Why does Vance come to Germany and support the AfD party, which is a pro-Russian extremist party? Why did Musk do such a huge campaign on X for several pro-Russian candidates in numerous European countries, criticizing the cancellation of elections that were rigged through Russian interference?
 

Frankj

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"So why are you getting involved in European politics, huh? Why does Vance come to Germany and support the AfD party, which is a pro-Russian extremist party? Why did Musk do such a huge campaign on X for several pro-Russian candidates in numerous European countries, criticizing the cancellation of elections that were rigged through Russian interference?"

We obviously see some things through different eyes, but you seem to have missed the point that I don't support our involvement in European politics and wars at all. We should tend to our own affairs and leave the Europeans to attend to their own affairs.

As I said, It's a European problem and needs a European solution.

Not that it makes any difference what I think one way or the other, I have about as much power and influence influence on the world of politics as a single mosquito does on a whale.

How would you rate your own power and influence in the politics of your own country?
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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MoreCoffee

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Donald Trump's treatment of President Zelenski was shameful.
 

Lamb

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At this point there has to be a compromise of some sort just to have peace. Zelenskyy loves the power he has and if the war ends, so does his power. Putin also loves the power he has, but he isn't going to lose his power with the war ending. Both of those men are too stubborn to be called good leaders.
 

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At this point there has to be a compromise of some sort just to have peace.
Peace needs a definition, otherwise we end up talking about different things and are not in agreement about what is to be sought after.

Consider: Peace is when all of your enemies are dead.
 

MoreCoffee

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Zelenskyy loves the power he has
I do not think that he does. He was a comedian, he may want nothing more dearly than to return to the stage and be free of the wright of governing during a war. God grant Ukraine peace.
 

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I do not think that he does. He was a comedian, he may want nothing more dearly than to return to the stage and be free of the wright of governing during a war. God grant Ukraine peace.

May God grant the world peace :)
 

Frankj

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May God grant the world peace :)
He will, he has promised it.

He has also described the process we will go through before we accept it, something that most of us might find a bit unpleasant for a few years.
 
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