What Did Jesus Shorten The Great Tribulation To?

SetFree · Jun 17, 2024

In Matthew 24:22 Jesus showed that the future tribulation would be shortened for His elect's sake. To what, and where is it written, that He shortened it to? And it is given in His Word, so this is not a trick question.

SetFree · Jun 19, 2024

This one is easy to miss, I'll give brethren that fact.

In Matthew 24:22 when Jesus was upon the Mount of Olives giving His disciples the signs of the end they asked Him about, (Matt.24:3), He said the time of great tribulation would be shortened for His elect's sake.

What it was shortened to is written in Revelation 9 about the stinging.

Rev 9:2-5
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV

Those are not real locusts. God uses them as a symbol for how real locusts attack. Per the Book of Joel, they represent "a nation", a certain people at the time of the END that steal the wealth of God's people and deceive many by the LIES that come out of their MOUTHS. That is what that symbolic 'stinging' is actually about. And they will be given to do it for a period of "five months".

Notice especially, they only are allowed to 'sting' those NOT SEALED with God's Seal.

Lees · Jun 19, 2024

SetFree said:
This one is easy to miss, I'll give brethren that fact.

In Matthew 24:22 when Jesus was upon the Mount of Olives giving His disciples the signs of the end they asked Him about, (Matt.24:3), He said the time of great tribulation would be shortened for His elect's sake.

What it was shortened to is written in Revelation 9 about the stinging.

Rev 9:2-5
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV

Those are not real locusts. God uses them as a symbol for how real locusts attack. Per the Book of Joel, they represent "a nation", a certain people at the time of the END that steal the wealth of God's people and deceive many by the LIES that come out of their MOUTHS. That is what that symbolic 'stinging' is actually about. And they will be given to do it for a period of "five months".

Notice especially, they only are allowed to 'sting' those NOT SEALED with God's Seal.

And, of course, you apparently didn't 'miss it'. So you say.

Explain how that the torment of the locusts upon the earth for 5 months is to be equated to the time period of the Tribulation being shortened.

Lees

Oseas3 · Dec 31, 2024

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Daniel 12:1-3) and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ (Isaiah 26:19-21, take a look) shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds(the same cloud of Matthew 17:5, and Acts 1:9, combined with Isaiah 4:5, take a look) to meet the Lord in the AIR(to meet the Lord in high places in Christ, 3rd heaven, heavenly place -> John 14:2-3 combined with 2Corinthians 12:1-4, and Luke 20:35-36): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Amen

So, the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael--Revelation 11:15), and with the trump of GOD (1Corinthians 15:51-55 combined with Philippians 3:20-21, and Revelation 11:15-18, and mainly Rev. 12:7-12, and 1Corinthians 15:24-28, take a look).

Happy New Year, or Happy 2025, it is and will be exclusivelly for the true people of GOD that dwell in heavenly places in Christ(John 1:12-13 and 17:13-17 combined with Ephesians 1:3-8); But to the multitudes and multitudes of the Evil's world, woe of them, there will be only and only severe and strong and intense punishments, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, sons of Devil, in LITERAL fulfillment of Revelation 11:6 combined with 1Corinthians 6:2-3 and Daniel 7:26-27 and Daniel 2:44-45, take a look).

Matthew 25:6 and 10 combined with Revelation 22:17 and 14.

SetFree · Jan 15, 2025

Oseas3 said:
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Daniel 12:1-3) and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ (Isaiah 26:19-21, take a look) shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds(the same cloud of Matthew 17:5, and Acts 1:9, combined with Isaiah 4:5, take a look) to meet the Lord in the AIR(to meet the Lord in high places in Christ, 3rd heaven, heavenly place -> John 14:2-3 combined with 2Corinthians 12:1-4, and Luke 20:35-36): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Amen

So, the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel(Michael--Revelation 11:15), and with the trump of GOD (1Corinthians 15:51-55 combined with Philippians 3:20-21, and Revelation 11:15-18, and mainly Rev. 12:7-12, and 1Corinthians 15:24-28, take a look).

Happy New Year, or Happy 2025, it is and will be exclusivelly for the true people of GOD that dwell in heavenly places in Christ(John 1:12-13 and 17:13-17 combined with Ephesians 1:3-8); But to the multitudes and multitudes of the Evil's world, woe of them, there will be only and only severe and strong and intense punishments, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, sons of Devil, in LITERAL fulfillment of Revelation 11:6 combined with 1Corinthians 6:2-3 and Daniel 7:26-27 and Daniel 2:44-45, take a look).

Matthew 25:6 and 10 combined with Revelation 22:17 and 14.

I have to assume that you posted the above 1 Thess.4 Scripture from a belief in man's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory.

A closer... look at what Apostle Paul actually taught there in 1 Thessalonians 4 reveals the timing when those events of Christ's coming to gather His Church will happen. And it is NOT prior to the "great tribulation".

The following is what Paul actually taught... and is about Christ's future gathering of 2 groups of saints...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

The subject at this point is those who have already died in Christ, the "asleep" saints.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

If we believe Jesus rose from the dead, then those "asleep" saints Jesus will bring with Him when He comes. That means they are resurrected first, and they come from Heaven with Jesus at His coming.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That word above "prevent" actually is a Greek word that means to precede. We who remain alive on earth shall not precede those "asleep" saints that Jesus will bring with Him on the day of His future coming.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus will descend... from Heaven to earth. Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveals where He will descend to, i.e., to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem where He also ascended to Heaven from. And it says He brings all His saints there will Him. That "trump of God" is the "last trump" Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15 when all still alive on earth are suddenly changed, at the twinkling of an eye. But these "asleep" saints are resurrected first so that Jesus brings them with Him when He comes.

That "the dead in Christ shall rise first" is a very... important fact that reveals when these events will happen. In John 6:40, Lord Jesus said that all those The Father had given Him that He will raise up on the LAST DAY. That means the very LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus comes. That also means AFTER... the "great tribulation". Jesus comes to end that "great tribulation" on that LAST DAY of this world. That is when the future resurrection will happen, and not before.

So far here, Paul is only spotlighting the "asleep" saints that had already died in Christ.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

That final 17th verse is about the saints still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future coming. Those of us still alive on earth shall be "caught up" with Jesus and the "asleep" saints to meet Him in the "air".

Paul does not tell us here just where... Jesus is going to descend to on earth, but that is what that idea of "descend from heaven" means. Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveal His descent will be to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth.

So that... is what Apostle Paul was teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4, not some 'fly away' bounce off the earth into heaven to live, taken in secret prior to the great tribulation like men's false pre-trib rapture wrongly teaches.

This also is a Biblical fact -- Paul got his coverage in 1 Thess.4 about Christ's future coming to gather the Church from Lord Jesus Himself, as Jesus actually gave the above events first! With the Matthew 24:31 verse, and the Mark 13:27 verse, Jesus covered His gathering of both the 'asleep' saints, and the saints that remain on earth at His coming.

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

The Matthew 24 version is about the gathering of the "asleep' saints that had already died in Christ, the ones Paul said that Jesus will bring with Him when He comes.

The Mark 13 version is about the saints still alive on earth when Jesus comes, being "caught up" to Jesus on that day.

Oseas3 · Jan 17, 2025

SetFree said:
I have to assume that you posted the above 1 Thess.4 Scripture from a belief in man's false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory.

A closer... look at what Apostle Paul actually taught there in 1 Thessalonians 4 reveals the timing when those events of Christ's coming to gather His Church will happen. And it is NOT prior to the "great tribulation".

The following is what Paul actually taught... and is about Christ's future gathering of 2 groups of saints...

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

The subject at this point is those who have already died in Christ, the "asleep" saints.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

If we believe Jesus rose from the dead, then those "asleep" saints Jesus will bring with Him when He comes. That means they are resurrected first, and they come from Heaven with Jesus at His coming.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

That word above "prevent" actually is a Greek word that means to precede. We who remain alive on earth shall not precede those "asleep" saints that Jesus will bring with Him on the day of His future coming.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Jesus will descend... from Heaven to earth. Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveals where He will descend to, i.e., to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem where He also ascended to Heaven from. And it says He brings all His saints there will Him. That "trump of God" is the "last trump" Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15 when all still alive on earth are suddenly changed, at the twinkling of an eye. But these "asleep" saints are resurrected first so that Jesus brings them with Him when He comes.

That "the dead in Christ shall rise first" is a very... important fact that reveals when these events will happen. In John 6:40, Lord Jesus said that all those The Father had given Him that He will raise up on the LAST DAY. That means the very LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus comes. That also means AFTER... the "great tribulation". Jesus comes to end that "great tribulation" on that LAST DAY of this world. That is when the future resurrection will happen, and not before.

So far here, Paul is only spotlighting the "asleep" saints that had already died in Christ.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

That final 17th verse is about the saints still alive on earth on that day of Christ's future coming. Those of us still alive on earth shall be "caught up" with Jesus and the "asleep" saints to meet Him in the "air".

Paul does not tell us here just where... Jesus is going to descend to on earth, but that is what that idea of "descend from heaven" means. Acts 1 and Zechariah 14 reveal His descent will be to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, on earth.

So that... is what Apostle Paul was teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4, not some 'fly away' bounce off the earth into heaven to live, taken in secret prior to the great tribulation like men's false pre-trib rapture wrongly teaches.

This also is a Biblical fact -- Paul got his coverage in 1 Thess.4 about Christ's future coming to gather the Church from Lord Jesus Himself, as Jesus actually gave the above events first! With the Matthew 24:31 verse, and the Mark 13:27 verse, Jesus covered His gathering of both the 'asleep' saints, and the saints that remain on earth at His coming.

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

The Matthew 24 version is about the gathering of the "asleep' saints that had already died in Christ, the ones Paul said that Jesus will bring with Him when He comes.

The Mark 13 version is about the saints still alive on earth when Jesus comes, being "caught up" to Jesus on that day.

Let 2025 come and let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, and the establishment of the fifth universal Devil's kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom, and also in the middle of this last week the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 9:27-, this satanic Kingdom is represented and described allegorically in the feet and ten toes of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, part of iron and part of clay, according to Daniel 2:41-45. Take a look.

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45 Indeed there are billions of years behind us, an Eternity, and now another year is going into Eternity, gone forever, never to be, bye bye 2022. Let...

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I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of peregrination / pilgrimage. What about GOD's people now or in this current time?

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

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JustTheFacts · Jan 18, 2025

Oseas3 said:
Let 2025 come and let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, and the establishment of the fifth universal Devil's kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom, and also in the middle of this last week the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 9:27-, this satanic Kingdom is represented and described allegorically in the feet and ten toes of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, part of iron and part of clay, according to Daniel 2:41-45. Take a look.

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45 Indeed there are billions of years behind us, an Eternity, and now another year is going into Eternity, gone forever, never to be, bye bye 2022. Let...

purebibleforum.com

I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of peregrination / pilgrimage. What about GOD's people now or in this current time?

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

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Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus, not that nonsense you are assembling from the words of Paul. You follow Paul, I follow Jesus.

Lamb · Jan 18, 2025

JustTheFacts said:
Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus, not that nonsense you are assembling from the words of Paul. You follow Paul, I follow Jesus.

Paul followed Jesus.

JustTheFacts · Jan 18, 2025

I'm not sure how to address this in light of all the evidence I uncovered over the last several days analyzing and reconciling resurrection accounts. For example, consider what Paul wrote that contradicts other resurrection reports that I've just proven to be factual. Consider that in Paul's own words, the disciples rejected Paul AND Paul rejected the disciples. These aren't my words, they are his--it's in his letters.

I'm still waiting for someone on this site to provide proof that what Paul wrote is the word of God. I just follow the evidence to try to get to the truth.

SetFree · Jan 19, 2025

Oseas3 said:
Let 2025 come and let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, and the establishment of the fifth universal Devil's kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom, and also in the middle of this last week the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 9:27-, this satanic Kingdom is represented and described allegorically in the feet and ten toes of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar, part of iron and part of clay, according to Daniel 2:41-45. Take a look.

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45

GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45 Indeed there are billions of years behind us, an Eternity, and now another year is going into Eternity, gone forever, never to be, bye bye 2022. Let...

purebibleforum.com

I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of peregrination / pilgrimage. What about GOD's people now or in this current time?

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

purebibleforum.com

Yeah, Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17 reveals the final beast kingdom of the ten toes of clay mixed with iron per the Book of Daniel. It will be a 5th beast kingdom on earth, but it is not yet complete today. It's king, the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist must appear in Jerusalem to confirm it.

Revelation 12:7-17 also reveals the coming of the "dragon" and his angels at the end of this world. Those who preach that Rev.12:7 forward Scripture was history is a joke!

Yet those in Christ are not to fear that coming one world government kingdom and the "king of the world" that is coming to sit over it in Jerusalem. Some groups of Messianics believe they must flee to Petra when that false-Messiah shows up. The rest of us, Jesus simply warned for us to not enter into Jerusalem in that future time when the "dragon" places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Revelation 12:3-4 shows this kind of one-world kingdom being setup for today isn't the first time it happened. Lucifer did it back in the old world when he first rebelled against God, and drew a third of the angels to earth with him.

JustTheFacts · Jan 19, 2025

SetFree said:
Yeah, Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17 reveals the final beast kingdom of the ten toes of clay mixed with iron per the Book of Daniel. It will be a 5th beast kingdom on earth, but it is not yet complete today. It's king, the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist must appear in Jerusalem to confirm it.

So then the bronze and iron kingdoms of Daniel are what?

SetFree said:
Revelation 12:7-17 also reveals the coming of the "dragon" and his angels at the end of this world. Those who preach that Rev.12:7 forward Scripture was history is a joke!

And the woman in Revelation prior to and after Revelation 12:7-17 signifies what? What does the 1260 days represent?

SetFree said:
Yet those in Christ are not to fear that coming one world government kingdom and the "king of the world" that is coming to sit over it in Jerusalem.

Where is the reference to the one world government?

SetFree said:
Some groups of Messianics believe they must flee to Petra when that false-Messiah shows up. The rest of us, Jesus simply warned for us to not enter into Jerusalem in that future time when the "dragon" places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

where is that warning from Jesus?

SetFree said:
Revelation 12:3-4 shows this kind of one-world kingdom being setup for today isn't the first time it happened. Lucifer did it back in the old world when he first rebelled against God, and drew a third of the angels to earth with him.

Here is the verses:

A great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was with child. She cried out in pain, laboring to give birth. 3 Another sign was seen in heaven. Behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven crowns. 4 His tail drew one third of the stars of the sky, and threw them to the earth. The dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

-Why Is the woman clothed in the sun? Why a crown of 12 stars?

-Who is the child And why is she laboring to give birth? The first sign in heaven was the woman and the second sign a great dragon. Who are the woman and dragon and why is the woman later taken to the wilderness for 1260 days?

-What is the woman giving birth to?

JustTheFacts · Jan 19, 2025

SetFree said:
In Matthew 24:22 Jesus showed that the future tribulation would be shortened for His elect's sake. To what, and where is it written, that He shortened it to? And it is given in His Word, so this is not a trick question.

Everything in the Olivet Discourse is possible To have occurred during the time of the disciples. Th3 following verse even tell# you this is true:

Matthew 24:34 Most certainly I tell you, this generation[d] will not pass away until all these things are accomplished.

How do you compensate for this when you claim Jesus is talking about a “future tribulation?”

Oseas3 · Jan 19, 2025

SetFree said:
Yeah, Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17 reveals the final beast kingdom of the ten toes of clay mixed with iron per the Book of Daniel. It will be a 5th beast kingdom on earth, but it is not yet complete today. It's king, the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist must appear in Jerusalem to confirm it.

Perfect. You are right, for now, the body of Antichrist's power (7 heads, and 10 horns(Revelation 17:12), and a TAIL)"I it is not yet complete today".

The 10 horns will be linked to the Antichrist's body with the manifestation of the false-messiah from now on (AN IMPOSTOR- John 5:43-47 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9-12, and Revelation 13:11 and so on, take a look). By the way, the false messiah, as JESUS prophesied(John 5:43), he is from the 10 tribes of Israel, in my view he is from the tribe of Dan-Genesis 49:17. With the appearance of false-messiah (the little horn among the 10 horns), the BODY OF THE RED DRAGON -Antichrist's body- will be complete.

I would say there will be a fusion or interfusion between the Beast of Sea(Revelation 13:1-9) with the Beast of the earth like a lamb, a false lamb, a false messiah(Revelation 13:11), something like fusion between Judaism(clay(Isaiah 64:8) and Catholicism(Iron), it means a spiritual fusion between clay(Israel) and iron(Gentile nations), then the BODY of the RED DRAGON (the Church of Devil-Revelation 17:3AND 7- , will be complete).

SetFree said:
Revelation 12:7-17 also reveals the coming of the "dragon" and his angels at the end of this world. Those who preach that Rev.12:7 forward Scripture was history is a joke!

You are right. "Those who preach that Rev.12:7 was history is a joke", they are the foolish virgins, they all are slumbered and slept, and their lamps already are gone out.

SetFree said:
Yet those in Christ are not to fear that coming one world government kingdom and the "king of the world" that is coming to sit over it in Jerusalem. Some groups of Messianics believe they must flee to Petra when that false-Messiah shows up.

Revelation 12:7 & 8 & 11, say:
7 And there was WAR in heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven(Ephesians 1:3-8).

11 And they overcame the dragon by the blood of the Lamb(by the blood of JESUS, the blood of JESUS has Power), and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 21:8->8 But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

SetFree said:
The rest of us, Jesus simply warned for us to not enter into Jerusalem in that future time when the "dragon" places the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

As is written, the TAIL of the red dragon( the TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16) drew the third part of the stars of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with 1Timothy 4:1-2 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4), and did cast them to the earth:

SetFree said:
Revelation 12:3-4 shows this kind of one-world kingdom being setup for today isn't the first time it happened. Lucifer did it back in the old world when he first rebelled against God, and drew a third of the angels to earth with him.

I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of peregrination / pilgrimage. What about GOD's people now or in this current time?

Now GOD's people will have to go through (I mean WIN a WAR) against the Red Dragon, that's exactly it, a Red Dragon yes, this is no coincidence, it was predicted millennia ago. He's a false messiah who will soon manifest, just ahead, with great signs of lying, he will manifest in Israel as a lamb with two horns, he's a Jew, of course, and he'll speak like a Dragon. Revelation 12.v.3 to 17 and Revelation 13:v. 11 to 18.

Similarity between passing by the Red Sea and by the Red Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of...

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JustTheFacts · Jan 20, 2025

Can you please just present verse by verse how you come up with this crazy story? Every time I've heard this nonsense a verse is grabbed here and there, then tied together with some words of Paul to try to make sense. It never does and of course I haven't heard anything about the woman giving birth. Like I say, y'all point to Paul, and I point to Jesus. Y'all also love to quote Matthew from the Olivet Discourse and ignore the words of John. From John chapter 16:

“I have said these things to you so that you wouldn’t be caused to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time comes that whoever kills you will think that he offers service to God. 3 They will do these things[a] because they have not known the Father, nor me. 4 But I have told you these things, so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you about them. I didn’t tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ 6 But because I have told you these things, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I don’t go away, the Counselor won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they don’t believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won’t see me any more; 11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

After Jesus leaves the disciple, they will be persecuted--just like Mark reported in the Olivet Discourse. Who is it? It isn't some future great tribulation years in the future--it is coming from the Jews that will kill Jesus--soon after Jesus leaves. Who is the Counselor> Jesus tells the disciples:

12 “I still have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now. 13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes[b] of mine and will declare it to you. 16 A little while, and you will not see me. Again a little while, and you will see me.”

Jesus will leave but he will provide the Holy Spirit to his disciples after he went. When did the disciples receive the Holy Spirit? John wrote it was the first day of Jesus' resurrection.

17 Some of his disciples therefore said to one another, “What is this that he says to us, ‘A little while, and you won’t see me, and again a little while, and you will see me;’ and, ‘Because I go to the Father’?” 18 They said therefore, “What is this that he says, ‘A little while’? We don’t know what he is saying.” 19 Therefore Jesus perceived that they wanted to ask him, and he said to them, “Do you inquire among yourselves concerning this, that I said, ‘A little while, and you won’t see me, and again a little while, and you will see me?’ 20 Most certainly I tell you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.

Just like you and your interpretation of Revelation, the disciples didn't understand so Jesus explained it in more details. Jesus will be executed and the disciples will be sad while the world rejoices! But their sorrow when Jesus is killed will be turned to joy. Why? Again, Jesus explains:

21 A woman, when she gives birth, has sorrow because her time has come. But when she has delivered the child, she doesn’t remember the anguish any more, for the joy that a human being is born into the world. 22 Therefore you now have sorrow, but I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.

What? Did Jesus just explain the woman of Revelation? Sure seems like it to me. The disciples will experience sorrow but their sorrow will be turned to joy. Why, because the disciples like the woman will give birth. What will the disciples give birth to? The Church through the resurrected Jesus! The woman is representative of the resurrected Jesus through the disciples giving birth to the Church.

But continue reading about the woman in Revelation. She started out pure, but becomes very corrupt immediately. Revelation 12:1 on reads like a cookbook for the start of the Church and how it immediately became corrupted by the Jews who hated Jesus. This makes sense. I can go through it verse by verse and explain it to you how this connection is.

But y'all love the words of Paul and try connecting a verse here and a verse there to make up some crazy story that God is so interested in some short period of time in the distant future that he told you nothing about what would happen in the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus died, then prophecy jumps to the end because you can't explain anything else. You even use Daniel to promote this nonsense but then you can't explain how the other kingdoms connect. I can.

Take it verse by verse starting in Revelation 12:1 and we'll compare notes. Prove to me that Jesus isn't describing the woman. Also, let's take Daniel chapter nine verse by verse and go through it and compare notes. Let's take Daniel's statue and go verse by verse through it. We won't skip any verses because God didn't want us to skip any. Every word is precise in prophecy.

SetFree · Jan 23, 2025

Oseas3 said:
By the way, the false messiah, as JESUS prophesied(John 5:43), he is from the 10 tribes of Israel, in my view he is from the tribe of Dan-Genesis 49:17. With the appearance of false-messiah (the little horn among the 10 horns), the BODY OF THE RED DRAGON -Antichrist's body- will be complete.

I do not believe the coming false-Messiah will actually be from bloodline Israel, but will be 'said to be' from Judah, the king tribe. Look over Daniel 11 again about the "vile person" pointing to a small people (small group of Jews) that will set him up as king. I believe his real identity will be the "dragon" himself, come to earth in 'our' earthly dimension.

Oseas3 said:
I would say there will be a fusion or interfusion between the Beast of Sea(Revelation 13:1-9) with the Beast of the earth like a lamb, a false lamb, a false messiah(Revelation 13:11), something like fusion between Judaism(clay(Isaiah 64:8) and Catholicism(Iron), it means a spiritual fusion between clay(Israel) and iron(Gentile nations), then the BODY of the RED DRAGON (the Church of Devil-Revelation 17:3AND 7- , will be complete).

The 1st beast, associated with the sea, is not a person, but is the beast kingdom itself, a system over all nations and peoples. It's over the waters described in Rev.17:15. You got the fake lamb concept on the nail, but it's not about the Catholic Church nor a pope. The Catholic Church will be deceived just as much as the majority of the Protestant Church will be also. The "red dragon" of Rev.12 is... the devil himself; it's just another title for the devil, so it's not about a flesh born man at all, even though that is the pop notion in many Churches today. This coming Antichrist/false-Messiah is about the ability to ascend out of the bottomless pit and will eventually go into perdition. It's about the devil himself, not any flesh man. The majority will not understand this point about Satan himself, in person, coming to earth, with his angels, until Lord Jesus returns.

Oseas3 said:
You are right. "Those who preach that Rev.12:7 was history is a joke", they are the foolish virgins, they all are slumbered and slept, and their lamps already are gone out.

Pretty much, yep!

Oseas3 said:
Revelation 12:7 & 8 & 11, say:
7 And there was WAR in heaven(heaven?Ephesians 1:3-8): Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven(Ephesians 1:3-8).

11 And they overcame the dragon by the blood of the Lamb(by the blood of JESUS, the blood of JESUS has Power), and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 21:8->8 But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

As is written, the TAIL of the red dragon( the TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16) drew the third part of the stars of heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8 combined with 1Timothy 4:1-2 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4), and did cast them to the earth:

I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea, and walk through a desert, walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of peregrination / pilgrimage. What about GOD's people now or in this current time?

Now GOD's people will have to go through (I mean WIN a WAR) against the Red Dragon, that's exactly it, a Red Dragon yes, this is no coincidence, it was predicted millennia ago. He's a false messiah who will soon manifest, just ahead, with great signs of lying, he will manifest in Israel as a lamb with two horns, he's a Jew, of course, and he'll speak like a Dragon. Revelation 12.v.3 to 17 and Revelation 13:v. 11 to 18.

In Christ's Olivet discourse, Jesus said when one sees the placing of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem, for those there to flee to the mountains. And for those in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time (Matt.24; Luke 21). Many believe that was already history when it is not, but is about the coming "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about.

In Mark 13, Jesus showed that even our deceived loved ones will think to have us delivered up. Some of us will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ against the beast, The Holy Spirit speaking through us. I feel like those are already being prepared for that today.

When the false-Messiah appears, and the "great tribulation" begins, whatever one believed immediately prior to its start is what they will believe during it until Jesus returns at the end of it. The unbelieving Jews and Gentiles will thus remain in unbelief until Jesus appears, and that will be why they will appear spiritually naked and ashamed, wishing for the hills and the mountains to, "Fall on us." (Luke 23:27-30; end of Zech.12).

I know it sounds crazy to think that Satan himself, in person, is coming to our earthly dimension as the false-Messiah, but he is the one God's Word is pointing to for that role as the final Antichrist. That is why he will have power to work those great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down to earth from heaven in the sight of men, as written. He is coming to mimic Lord Jesus Christ, and because of the gross materialism the majority have been brainwashed into for our times, the majority will not have a clue nor be ready for it, and thus Rev.17:18 says they will "wonder" (marvel) at him. Furthermore, in God's parable about Lucifer using the "king of Tyrus" in Ezekiel 28, God has already said He will destroy him on the earth, a fire burning within him, in sight of those who see it (meaning it will be in our earthly dimension, people will see it).

JustTheFacts · Jan 23, 2025

SetFree said:
I do not believe the coming false-Messiah will actually be from bloodline Israel, but will be 'said to be' from Judah, the king tribe. Look over Daniel 11 again about the "vile person" pointing to a small people (small group of Jews) that will set him up as king. I believe his real identity will be the "dragon" himself, come to earth in 'our' earthly dimension.

The 1st beast, associated with the sea, is not a person, but is the beast kingdom itself, a system over all nations and peoples. It's over the waters described in Rev.17:15. You got the fake lamb concept on the nail, but it's not about the Catholic Church nor a pope. The Catholic Church will be deceived just as much as the majority of the Protestant Church will be also. The "red dragon" of Rev.12 is... the devil himself; it's just another title for the devil, so it's not about a flesh born man at all, even though that is the pop notion in many Churches today. This coming Antichrist/false-Messiah is about the ability to ascend out of the bottomless pit and will eventually go into perdition. It's about the devil himself, not any flesh man. The majority will not understand this point about Satan himself, in person, coming to earth, with his angels, until Lord Jesus returns.

Pretty much, yep!

In Christ's Olivet discourse, Jesus said when one sees the placing of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem, for those there to flee to the mountains. And for those in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time (Matt.24; Luke 21). Many believe that was already history when it is not, but is about the coming "great tribulation" Jesus warned us about.

In Mark 13, Jesus showed that even our deceived loved ones will think to have us delivered up. Some of us will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ against the beast, The Holy Spirit speaking through us. I feel like those are already being prepared for that today.

When the false-Messiah appears, and the "great tribulation" begins, whatever one believed immediately prior to its start is what they will believe during it until Jesus returns at the end of it. The unbelieving Jews and Gentiles will thus remain in unbelief until Jesus appears, and that will be why they will appear spiritually naked and ashamed, wishing for the hills and the mountains to, "Fall on us." (Luke 23:27-30; end of Zech.12).

I know it sounds crazy to think that Satan himself, in person, is coming to our earthly dimension as the false-Messiah, but he is the one God's Word is pointing to for that role as the final Antichrist. That is why he will have power to work those great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down to earth from heaven in the sight of men, as written. He is coming to mimic Lord Jesus Christ, and because of the gross materialism the majority have been brainwashed into for our times, the majority will not have a clue nor be ready for it, and thus Rev.17:18 says they will "wonder" (marvel) at him. Furthermore, in God's parable about Lucifer using the "king of Tyrus" in Ezekiel 28, God has already said He will destroy him on the earth, a fire burning within him, in sight of those who see it (meaning it will be in our earthly dimension, people will see it).

If you read prophecy and interpret it and try to understand the meaning of it rather than supporting crazy nonsensical theology, you will realize that Jesus is the abomination of desolation. Jesus replaced the temple and to the Jews this was the absolute worst thing that they ever experienced so they reject Jesus and vacate the new temple.

SetFree · Jan 27, 2025

JustTheFacts said:
If you read prophecy and interpret it and try to understand the meaning of it rather than supporting crazy nonsensical theology, you will realize that Jesus is the abomination of desolation. Jesus replaced the temple and to the Jews this was the absolute worst thing that they ever experienced so they reject Jesus and vacate the new temple.

WARNING BRETHREN:
Do not listen to this person above falsely claiming that our Lord Jesus Christ is the "abomination of desolation", which that abomination is about an IDOL that the coming false-Messiah will setup in false worship in a 3rd stone temple built by the Jews in today's JERUSALEM!

JustTheFacts · Jan 27, 2025

SetFree said:
WARNING BRETHREN:
Do not listen to this person above falsely claiming that our Lord Jesus Christ is the "abomination of desolation", which that abomination is about an IDOL that the coming false-Messiah will setup in false worship in a 3rd stone temple built by the Jews in today's JERUSALEM!

it’s real easy to predict something in the distant future, isn’t it? You don’t have to prove anything. You just say, “keep your eyes open because it will happen some day.“

What does abomination of desolation mean? Abomination is a horrible event. Desolation means vacated of left alone. The world when the New Covenant started is all and only about Jesus. Jesus told you he replaced the temple, and he told you how much the Jews hated Jesus for his upcoming sacrifice. Since the rejection of Jesus results in eternal death, can you think of anything worse than the rejection of Jesus by the Jews—the people God chose and provided all the prophecy pointing to Jesus for? Nope. I can’t. What did the Jess do? They abandoned the temple of Jesus! The abomination of desolation. If you use that as the foundation, Daniel 9:24-27 also adds up and makes sense.

Now your turn to explain how you connect it to the boogeyman of the future. In Addison, why are you so rude and aggressive towRd someon who objects to your theology? I’m a lover and follower of Jesus, I just don’t follow your theology that I believe is unfounded and nonsense.

SetFree · Feb 18, 2025

Brethren in Christ Jesus, as you know, there are many antichrists already at work upon this earth, and they are here to deceive. We are not to listen to them, but instead listen to God in His Word; nevertheless, some brethren do listen to those antichrists instead and thus are in confusion.

Certain false doctrines of specific groups that claim to be Christian, but in reality are Cults, claim that Lord Jesus' Ministry on earth fulfilled the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week", the final 70th week of the 70 weeks prophecy. That false so-called Christian, but a CULT belief, is of the devil, simply because that 70th final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 is still... yet to be fulfilled today, and will be fulfilled ONLY by the FINAL ANTICHRIST that is coming at the very END of this world. So those CULTS who claim our Lord Jesus Christ already fulfilled that Daniel prophesy blaspheme Jesus Christ and His Ministry.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

That above event is still future to us today. It is prophesied to occur at the future time of "great tribulation" which Lord Jesus taught in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, actually quoting that prophecy from the Book of Daniel. That part in 'red' above is about the same future event below prophesied later in the Daniel 11 Chapter...

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

The false one of that Daniel 11 chapter called a "vile person" is who will be responsible for placing that future "abomination that maketh desolate" in a NEW JEWISH STONE TEMPLE TO BUILT IN TODAY'S JERUSALEM FOR THE END OF THIS WORLD.

Below is where Lord Jesus quoted about that coming "vile person" (Antichrist) at the end of this world to setup that "abomination of desolation" which is about an IDOL placed at a NEW stone temple in Jerusalem that will be built by the orthodox Jews at the end of this world. Lord Jesus linked the time of the coming "great tribulation" with the time of the placing of that IDOL abomination in Jerusalem in false worship.

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

KJV

Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
KJV

So how is it brethren, that those CULTS falsely claim that Lord Jesus already fulfilled the above when HE was instead WARNING THE CHURCH about that "abomination of desolation" event for the END of this world?

Those CULTS who claim Jesus fulfilled that follow the devil himself. They are Beth-avens (houses of vanity). And it is very... easy to understand how they LIE, because it is very easy to stay in God's Word 'as written' to know that Lord Jesus COULD NEVER FULFILL THAT DANIEL 9:27 PROPHECY, for that can only be fulfilled by CHRIST'S ENEMY.

What Did Jesus Shorten The Great Tribulation To?

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