Pride and prejudice.

[MoreCoffee]

Pride and prejudice go hand in hand. Pride in one's own achievements or in one's station in life and prejudice about others and their lack of apparent achievements or lowly station in life.

Theology can create the twin faults of pride and prejudice.
Pride about one's achievements and one's station in life. Some tell of their salvation and their objective position in Jesus as if the former were one of their achievements and the latter is one of their attributes. Some tell of their former state in spiritual death with some emphasis on it being a former state. Some speak of their forgiveness, for the sake of Christ's saving work, in terms that leave the listener wondering if the speaker is forgiven even for things that they have not yet done - a kind of dispensation of forgiveness given in advance for anything that may need to be forgiven in their future conduct.

Prejudice (either explicit or implicit) towards another when the other is deemed to be one who does not speak of their salvation, their objective position in Jesus, their second birth (out of death in their trespasses and sins), their current state of forgiveness, and their assurance of forgiveness for whatever may come in the future. These ones are unsaved, still dead in "their trespasses and sins"*, perhaps thinking of themselves as their own saviour. But what if the other is not, in fact, any of those things?

I am saved by the blood of the lamb, sang Bob Dylan. I believe in you he also sang. And then he sang I am pressing on to the higher calling of my Lord.

Well I'm pressing on
Yes, I'm pressing on
Well I'm pressing on
To the higher calling of my Lord

Many try to stop me, shake me up in my mind
Say, "Prove to me that He is Lord, show me a sign"
What kind of sign they need when it all come from within
When what's lost has been found, what's to come has already been?

Well I'm pressing on
Yes, I'm pressing on
Well I'm pressing on
To the higher calling of my Lord

Shake the dust off of your feet, don't look back
Nothing now can hold you down, nothing that you lack
Temptation's not an easy thing, Adam given the devil reign
Because he sinned I got no choice, it run in my vein

Well I'm pressing on
Yes, I'm pressing on
Well I'm pressing on
To the higher calling of my Lord

You know the adversary never sleeps - he is a roaring beast.
He always comes at the time that you expect him least.
And you know that he's responsible for death and pain and loss,
But we know we'll overcome him by the victory at the cross.​

Bob Dylan may not be the source of one's theology but are his songs a fair testimony to a Christian's experiences at some stage in their life? I think they are.

https://vimeo.com/87042517

* - a phrase borrowed from one of Paul's letters (Ephesians 2.1).

 

[Cassia]

Paul says to use blinders in running the race, I'm not sure of what he meant by that. I assume it has something to do with having eyes fixed on Jesus. Not Paul, Peter or Ajax. When others say that others are less Christian than themselves and are only stepbros then they are not fixing eyes on the prize imo and are exalting themselves to do so.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Pride and prejudice have shown us what they sow and reap in the past through numerous varied religious/ political groups.

The Christ speaks out against both repeatedly.

I believe pride and prejudice to be linked very closely to, and ultimately a result of, greed. I don't mean greed that is only related to money.

We don't need either. None of us.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

 

[Lamb]

Some speak of their forgiveness, for the sake of Christ's saving work, in terms that leave the listener wondering if the speaker is forgiven even for things that they have not yet done -

The wonderful thing is that Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins before we were born. He won't be returning to the cross each time we sin so we have the assurance that even our future sins are forgiven. That doesn't give us license to sin.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The wonderful thing is that Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins before we were born. He won't be returning to the cross each time we sin so we have the assurance that even our future sins are forgiven. That doesn't give us license to sin.

Posting that re-sacrifice may be required for forgiveness of sins as they happen is bizarre.

 

[Lamb]

Posting that re-sacrifice may be required for forgiveness of sins as they happen is bizarre.

I agree. I do not believe that there is ever a re-sacrifice. He did it once and for all (Hebrews 10)

 

[MoreCoffee]

I agree. I do not believe that there is ever a re-sacrifice. He did it once and for all (Hebrews 10)

Oh good. For a moment I thought you might believe that somebody (anybody) believes what you implied in your earlier post - "He won't be returning to the cross each time we sin" implying that forgiving sins after they happen needs a re-sacrifice - if that isn't what you intended to imply then what on earth made you write what you wrote? "so we have the assurance that even our future sins are forgiven. That doesn't give us license to sin." What the faithful have assurance of is that they will receive forgiveness for any and every sin for which they repent.

 

[Lamb]

Yes, I said he WON'T be returning to the cross...meaning there is no re-sacrifice.

I'm not sure what you're asking me about the 2nd underlined portion. Christ died once and for all and our sins are forgiven. They were forgiven before we were born. The problem is that we tend to reject that forgiveness, but the Holy Spirit works to bring us back to faith. When we sin, the Holy Spirit uses the Law to convict us and then in repentance He turns us so that now that we are in despair He gives us the Gospel. Then once again we have that joy that the Gospel can only bring.

Just like Israel kept turning away from God, so do we each time we sin. Sin separates us from Him because sin is never done out of faith. But we, who do have faith because of the Gospel are clothed in Christ (Galatians 3:27). This is what Luther was talking about when he said sin boldly. We know we will not live our lives perfectly. But we can be assured that because of Christ we won't be thrown aside by God because of our sins. We are forgiven because of Christ's death on the cross.

Like you wrote above What the faithful have assurance of is that they will receive forgiveness for any and every sin for which they repent. Since repentance is part of the work of the Holy Spirit in us, we do have full assurance that we have forgiveness because of the cross. Fear not, little flock

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, I said he WON'T be returning to the cross...meaning there is no re-sacrifice.

...

Then why did you even mention the idea of re-sacrifice. Nobody advocates it do they? Certainly nobody you chat with here in CH, right?

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
I'm not sure what you're asking me about the 2nd underlined portion. ...)

I didn't ask you anything about these words:

"so we have the assurance that even our future sins are forgiven. That doesn't give us license to sin."​

What I did is is say "What the faithful have assurance of is that they will receive forgiveness for any and every sin for which they repent."

 

[Lamb]

Then why did you even mention the idea of re-sacrifice. Nobody advocates it do they? Certainly nobody you chat with here in CH, right?

There are people who don't realize that their sins have already been forgiven. Which is why I brought up that Jesus doesn't go to the cross again when someone sins.

 

[Lamb]

I didn't ask you anything about there words:

"so we have the assurance that even our future sins are forgiven. That doesn't give us license to sin."​

What I did is is say "What the faithful have assurance of is that they will receive forgiveness for any and every sin for which they repent."

Receiving forgiveness of sins after repentance can ONLY happen because Christ died on the cross and sins have been forgiven. The assurance of receiving is only because it's already happened at the cross for us. Our repenting isn't the cause of the forgiveness given. The cause is Jesus' death.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There are people who don't realize that their sins have already been forgiven. Which is why I brought up that Jesus doesn't go to the cross again when someone sins.

"their sins have already been forgiven" before they commit them? Before they repent of them? What if they do not repent?

 

[Lamb]

"their sins have already been forgiven" before they commit them? Before they repent of them? What if they do not repent?

Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Not for them to be potentially forgiven but that they are forgiven.

It's the job of the Holy Spirit to bring us to repentance. That's His gift. He works in us to turn us, first by Law to convict and then by Gospel to turn. Repentance is the bridge between the two. If we don't agree something is a sin, He will keep working on us to get us to see the truth.

Those who reject the Savior do not receive the benefits of the cross. They do not want it. They refuse faith.

 

[Lamb]

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

I forgot to add scripture to the above post.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record* of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

I forgot to add scripture to the above post.

* - It says "the record" because it is about what happened. It does not say "the prophecy" or "the prediction" of debt ...

 

[Josiah]

Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Not for them to be potentially forgiven but that they are forgiven.

It's the job of the Holy Spirit to bring us to repentance. That's His gift. He works in us to turn us, first by Law to convict and then by Gospel to turn. Repentance is the bridge between the two. If we don't agree something is a sin, He will keep working on us to get us to see the truth.

Those who reject the Savior do not receive the benefits of the cross. They do not want it. They refuse faith.

Well said.


While the spiritual act of repentance is very important and helpful.... and LEGALLY (in terms of the LAW exclusively) none (including God) MUST forgive without it, God is not bound to such. There is another aspect - the Gospel.

Jesus said to His executioners, "Father FORGIVE THEM." Is there any textual evidence that His executioners were all believers and repented to Jesus looking to Jesus as their Savior and to Him for mercy? No. Is there any textual evidence they even FELT some personal remorse? No. It seems likely they took glee in their "art" of execution..... "Father, forgive them."

I believe that at my baptism (less than a minute after my birth..... I wasn't conscience.... I wasn't breathing....) I was forgiven. I didn't repent. I doubt I even felt any remorse. Although I don't remember.

I believe MOST of my sins I'm not even aware of and thus don't specifically REPENT of - although I live in humility, I confess that I am BY NATURE sinful and unclean; my repentance is for what I am and not limited to very specifics (although in includes that).

God's grace doesn't depend on me. God loves because God is loving, not because I perform some good work that He rewards.

I'm NOT saying repentance (that act of faith, that act of a Christian) is unimportant, not at all. Only that it is not what MAKES God have mercy on us or forgive us. I think repentance is something done more for our growth and spiritual benefit than some "trick" or "cantation" that makes God forgive (or not).


- Josiah

 

[Lamb]

* - It says "the record" because it is about what happened. It does not say "the prophecy" or "the prediction" of debt ...

We went on record with our debt when Adam and Eve fell from grace. Romans 5 states how sin came into the world because of one man and that because of Jesus there is justification for us.

Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

John 1:29 Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We went on record with our debt when Adam and Eve fell from grace. Romans 5 states how sin came into the world because of one man and that because of Jesus there is justification for us.

Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

John 1:29 Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Ephesians 1:7 and John 1:29 do not say that un-repented sins not yet committed are already forgiven, right?

 

[Lamb]

Ephesians 1:7 and John 1:29 do not say that un-repented sins not yet committed are already forgiven, right?

When we repent, we are forgiven because those sins were first forgiven at the cross. Our repentance is not the condition of forgiveness since Jesus' death on the cross won our forgiveness. This happened before we were born. Before we sinned. "having forgiven us all our trespasses" as the verse I quoted in Colossians says.