Jew/ Gentile

[popsthebuilder]

I've noticed more than once (not in any place in particular) that there seems to be a division between the word Jew and gentile, and though I do wholly agree that they are separate terms with wholly separate meanings, what I deny is that parts of the New testament are directed towards the Jew where as others are specifically towards the gentile.

I will briefly describe my own definitions or rather; subjective perspective on the term Jew and gentile.

Jew- zealous believer

gentile- heathen

I know I am only highlighting my ignorance to some... but I'm getting somewhere with this.

If anyone wants to comment in any way whatsoever as long as they adhere to forum rules, then great. I will not be attacking anyone. But that isn't to say that this thread isn't in the debate section either. Let's all keep it cool and recall how we are to treat even our enemy, and how the nonbeliever is too kind to just his perceived friend or sibling. One more side note, sorry; one last thing to keep in mind that most likely helps with the veil of pride; we are all students; the teacher is Jesus the Christ of GOD.

I look forward to the mere hope of conversation on this topic.

peace

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[MoreCoffee]

Some commandments in the old testament are specifically said to be for Israel and Israelites. Some freedoms in the new testament are specifically said to be open for the sake of gentiles. There appears to be a difference in these things. One example is circumcision. It was a requirement for Israelite males but not for gentile males. For Christians regardless of gender and regardless of ancestry baptism is a requirement whenever it is possible to be baptised - there are exceptions to this that are tied to lack of opportunity or inability such as the thief on the cross or a person not yet baptised but martyred.

 

[Lamb]

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/gentiles/

"Gentiles [N] [T]

(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.

In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1 Acts 16:3 ; 18:17 ; Romans 1:14 ), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation."

It appears that both in the Hebrew and Greek that the term did not mean heathen as a specific. Now as to whether the bible directed parts to the Jew and not the Gentile in the New Testament, Jesus first came for the Jews and then the Gentiles. He wanted to gather together His people that were set aside from the very beginning and then made it clear that the rest of the world was not to be left out.

 

[Josiah]

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/gentiles/

"Gentiles [N] [T]

(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.

In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1 Acts 16:3 ; 18:17 ; Romans 1:14 ), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation."

It appears that both in the Hebrew and Greek that the term did not mean heathen as a specific. Now as to whether the bible directed parts to the Jew and not the Gentile in the New Testament, Jesus first came for the Jews and then the Gentiles. He wanted to gather together His people that were set aside from the very beginning and then made it clear that the rest of the world was not to be left out.

That's my understanding, too....


JEW - a biological descendant of Abraham (interchangeable with "hebrew") and/or a believer in the Jewish religion (a non-Hebrew convert to the religion).

GENTILE - one who is not a Hebrew, a descendant of Abraham. Such MAY be a Jew by religion and thus be a Gentile Jew.


The confusion comes because "Jew" can mean both a believer in the Jewish religion AND a Hebrew descendant of Abraham. While generally they were the same, there were exceptions. Some Jews became Christians (all the Apostles, for example), some Gentiles become Jews (Sammy Davis, Jr. springs to mind).



- Josiah

 

[Brighten04]

It has always been my understanding that

Jew = descendants of the tribe of Judah son of Jacob/Israel
Gentile =People not of Jacob's/Israel's lineage

Remember that Israel Northern Kingdom was taken into exile by the Assyrians
Judah (Jews)/ Southern Kingdom were taken into exile by the Babylonians.

 

[TurtleHare]

I've noticed more than once (not in any place in particular) that there seems to be a division between the word Jew and gentile, and though I do wholly agree that they are separate terms with wholly separate meanings, what I deny is that parts of the New testament are directed towards the Jew where as others are specifically towards the gentile.

I will briefly describe my own definitions or rather; subjective perspective on the term Jew and gentile.

Jew- zealous believer

gentile- heathen

I know I am only highlighting my ignorance to some... but I'm getting somewhere with this.

If anyone wants to comment in any way whatsoever as long as they adhere to forum rules, then great. I will not be attacking anyone. But that isn't to say that this thread isn't in the debate section either. Let's all keep it cool and recall how we are to treat even our enemy, and how the nonbeliever is too kind to just his perceived friend or sibling. One more side note, sorry; one last thing to keep in mind that most likely helps with the veil of pride; we are all students; the teacher is Jesus the Christ of GOD.

I look forward to the mere hope of conversation on this topic.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

If your asking about salvation and how there isn't a difference between Jews and gentiles then I wholeheartedly agree with you and even on the topic of sanctification then I'd say, yeah, that's true too but MoreCoffee did make some distinguishable differences.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Some commandments in the old testament are specifically said to be for Israel and Israelites. Some freedoms in the new testament are specifically said to be open for the sake of gentiles. There appears to be a difference in these things. One example is circumcision. It was a requirement for Israelite males but not for gentile males. For Christians regardless of gender and regardless of ancestry baptism is a requirement whenever it is possible to be baptised - there are exceptions to this that are tied to lack of opportunity or inability such as the thief on the cross or a person not yet baptised but martyred.

I agree that some of the ot is towards the Jew; I would venture to say all of it.

Freedoms open for the sake of gentiles? As in specifically not for the Jew? I am curious as to what you are referencing. I do not deny it whatsoever, but will note that a thing being for the sake of something in no way negates it being for another or all.

As far as circumcision is concerned; it is my understanding that it is to be of the heart; as in the cutting away of the wants of self, and it seems to apply to all evenly.

Baptism is a requirement to be Christian in the eyes of man, or in ones on heart? Is baptism a work, or for a sign to men (or self), or is it a seal. Was John the Baptist a technical Jew? What of Elias; did he baptise? Was he baptised. Does his faith not count because he wasn't Christian?

Please don't consider the rather abrupt manner of my post to mean shortness in manner; it is just that I have many questions as you can see, and who better to ask? I understand you to be exceedingly resourceful when it comes to traditional views.

peace

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[popsthebuilder]

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/gentiles/

"Gentiles [N] [T]

(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.

In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1 Acts 16:3 ; 18:17 ; Romans 1:14 ), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation."

It appears that both in the Hebrew and Greek that the term did not mean heathen as a specific. Now as to whether the bible directed parts to the Jew and not the Gentile in the New Testament, Jesus first came for the Jews and then the Gentiles. He wanted to gather together His people that were set aside from the very beginning and then made it clear that the rest of the world was not to be left out.

Catching on to my point quite quickly, but do you personally believe parts of the New testament to be directed to only Jews, and how is it that gentile and Jew aren't seen as synonymous when the Jew was both spread through the world and too weren't​ found to be pleasing to GOD? Is the difference in the Jew and the gentile actually hereditary bloodlines, or is it the difference in the faithful and the hypocrite?

Thank you for your reference. I had, at one point, located a definition that actually said heathen, but I can't easily find it now, so it isn't really acceptable as a standard definition, but I did state that it was an opinion.

So what are the differences between a Jew and a gentile according to the Christ?

peace

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[popsthebuilder]

That's my understanding, too....


JEW - a biological descendant of Abraham (interchangeable with "hebrew") and/or a believer in the Jewish religion (a non-Hebrew convert to the religion).

GENTILE - one who is not a Hebrew, a descendant of Abraham. Such MAY be a Jew by religion and thus be a Gentile Jew.


The confusion comes because "Jew" can mean both a believer in the Jewish religion AND a Hebrew descendant of Abraham. While generally they were the same, there were exceptions. Some Jews became Christians (all the Apostles, for example), some Gentiles become Jews (Sammy Davis, Jr. springs to mind).



- Josiah

But if a Jew is a descendant of Abraham and Abraham is described as being a friend of GOD through his faith and deeds does it not follow that any who descended from a line of one found to be (in the sight of GOD) a friend of GOD could too be considered a Jew? Why is there a want to claim any lineage whatsoever? Was the Jew not scattered? Is that not in the bible?

I'm really starting to hope I'm not speaking out of my rear.

peace

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[popsthebuilder]

It has always been my understanding that

Jew = descendants of the tribe of Judah son of Jacob/Israel
Gentile =People not of Jacob's/Israel's lineage

Remember that Israel Northern Kingdom was taken into exile by the Assyrians
Judah (Jews)/ Southern Kingdom were taken into exile by the Babylonians.

What profit or purpose is said distinction for the believer/ faithful to GOD please?

peace



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[popsthebuilder]

If your asking about salvation and how there isn't a difference between Jews and gentiles then I wholeheartedly agree with you and even on the topic of sanctification then I'd say, yeah, that's true too but MoreCoffee did make some distinguishable differences.

Danged ole turtlehair boy Itelyahwat!

Yes, distinctions are seemingly being made....

peace

I'm glad we agree on more stuff.


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[Cassia]

I've noticed more than once (not in any place in particular) that there seems to be a division between the word Jew and gentile, and though I do wholly agree that they are separate terms with wholly separate meanings, what I deny is that parts of the New testament are directed towards the Jew where as others are specifically towards the gentile.

I will briefly describe my own definitions or rather; subjective perspective on the term Jew and gentile.

Jew- zealous believer

gentile- heathen

I know I am only highlighting my ignorance to some... but I'm getting somewhere with this.

If anyone wants to comment in any way whatsoever as long as they adhere to forum rules, then great. I will not be attacking anyone. But that isn't to say that this thread isn't in the debate section either. Let's all keep it cool and recall how we are to treat even our enemy, and how the nonbeliever is too kind to just his perceived friend or sibling. One more side note, sorry; one last thing to keep in mind that most likely helps with the veil of pride; we are all students; the teacher is Jesus the Christ of GOD.

I look forward to the mere hope of conversation on this topic.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

I may be way offtopic with this but a distinction I believe to be true isn't with the descendents of Abraham. Abraham is the father of many. The distinction is with Sarah .. Abraham belongs to faith/ Sarah belongs to grace seen in Galations 4.
Faith plus grace = the child of promise.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I may be way offtopic with this but a distinction I believe to be true isn't with the descendents of Abraham. Abraham is the father of many. The distinction is with Sarah .. Abraham belongs to faith/ Sarah belongs to grace seen in Galations 4.
Faith plus grace = the child of promise.

Sorry, the app that this is from won't allow copying of text from some reason.
I was looking into what you had said.

Thank you for the reference. It is exponentially critical in my main point I was trying to make.

You lead me right there.

Funny how that works....Not really. Still amazes me every time though.


peace, and thank you.

Hope this works; never tried it before.

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[popsthebuilder]

Sorry....That took up a lot of room on my little screen. Didn't mean to wall o text.
It was the only way i could figure out in my lacking technological savy.

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[Cassia]

Chapter 3 also I almost didn't need my glasses.

 

[Brighten04]

Baptism is a requirement to be Christian in the eyes of man, or in ones on heart? Is baptism a work, or for a sign to men (or self), or is it a seal. Was John the Baptist a technical Jew? What of Elias; did he baptise? Was he baptised. Does his faith not count because he wasn't Christian?

Great questions! I have never considered them. What does Jesus say about Baptism. When He got baptized He said
Matt 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

So evidently it was something for man to do for the sake of righteousness. John's water baptism was to show repentance. So a person getting baptized would not subject himself to it unless he was repentant.I am just thinking with my fingers here.

 

[Brighten04]

What profit or purpose is said distinction for the believer/ faithful to GOD please?

peace



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There is no difference to new creatures/believers in Christ Jesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I agree that some of the ot is towards the Jew; I would venture to say all of it.

Freedoms open for the sake of gentiles? As in specifically not for the Jew?

Yes, for the sake of gentiles, like eating certain kinds of meat (pork for example) that Jews would not eat. Many Jews in the new testament chose not to eat pork even after converting to Christianity but they were free to eat it as Christians if they wanted to. Even today some Christians refuse pork for all sorts of reasons some do so as a part of their religion (Seventh Day Adventists and numerous Messianic groups as well as some "Hebrew Roots Pentecostals"). They are all free to eat pork if they want to but some prefer not to.

I am curious as to what you are referencing. I do not deny it whatsoever, but will note that a thing being for the sake of something in no way negates it being for another or all.

As far as circumcision is concerned; it is my understanding that it is to be of the heart; as in the cutting away of the wants of self, and it seems to apply to all evenly.

Baptism is a requirement to be Christian in the eyes of man, or in ones on heart? Is baptism a work, or for a sign to men (or self), or is it a seal. Was John the Baptist a technical Jew? What of Elias; did he baptise? Was he baptised. Does his faith not count because he wasn't Christian?

Holy scripture says that "baptism now saves you" and Jesus said "unless you are born of water and the Spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven" what you take that to mean is up to you. Catholics take it at face value with the only exceptions being the ones I mentioned before; namely those who have no opportunity to be baptised or who are unable to be baptised like the thief on the cross and like a person martyred before they were baptised.

Please don't consider the rather abrupt manner of my post to mean shortness in manner; it is just that I have many questions as you can see, and who better to ask? I understand you to be exceedingly resourceful when it comes to traditional views.

peace

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I am not offended by questions sincerely asked. Your questions are not offensive brother popsthebuilder.

 

[Lamb]

Catching on to my point quite quickly, but do you personally believe parts of the New testament to be directed to only Jews, and how is it that gentile and Jew aren't seen as synonymous when the Jew was both spread through the world and too weren't​ found to be pleasing to GOD? Is the difference in the Jew and the gentile actually hereditary bloodlines, or is it the difference in the faithful and the hypocrite?

Thank you for your reference. I had, at one point, located a definition that actually said heathen, but I can't easily find it now, so it isn't really acceptable as a standard definition, but I did state that it was an opinion.

So what are the differences between a Jew and a gentile according to the Christ?

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

In the bible the difference was in heritage and ancestry. Now, the difference is that those who say they are Jewish in today's time might not be referring to religion at all but the fact that they came from Jews. No one calls themselves Gentiles anymore...do they? We are all connected by Jesus.

 

[Cassia]

Sorry, the app that this is from won't allow copying of text from some reason.
I was looking into what you had said.

Thank you for the reference. It is exponentially critical in my main point I was trying to make.

You lead me right there.

Funny how that works....Not really. Still amazes me every time though.


peace, and thank you.

Hope this works; never tried it before.

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

That same section that declares freedom to All who in Christ also denotes the New Jerusalem as our Mother.

John 14:1-3
"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Galatians 4:26
But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother.​