Oneness--coexistent modalism as the true Trinity

[justbyfaith]

Luke 1:35 tells me that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary and was born ("begotten") nine months later.

I will say again that God gave His only begotten Son when His Son died on the Cross for our sins; and therefore He was begotten before He died and therefore before He was resurrected.

Jesus was clearly begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35). That is sound doctrine.

There is also a sense in which He was begotten in the resurrection; but this is not to deny that He was begotten, also, in the incarnation.

If your verses declare that He was begotten in the resurrection, then my verse (Luke 1:35) declares that He was begotten in the incarnation.

Since "begotten" means "born" (and yes, I am here going to re-define the terms), then Jesus was begotten nine months after the juncture of Luke 1:35 when He was born as a Man on the face of the earth.

I am still curious as to what it is that you think it means that He was begotten in the resurrection. What exactly took place there; that you say He was begotten?

You need to know that Jesus is and always has been the Son of God from the moment of His conception to His ascending into eternity to exist outside of time.

So, He did not "become one with the Son of God" as a Man, when He rose from the dead.

He was the Son of God the whole time that He walked the earth; therefore He was begotten in the incarnation!

 

[justbyfaith]

No. One God, but three Persons. Not three God's.

The Son is eternal as well having always existed with the Father, as well as the Holy Spirit.

When, in your doctrine, did the Son, not Jesus, come into existence?

Lees

At the juncture of Luke 1:35...while He also ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) to exist outside of time (since time is a created thing).

If you are of the opinion that

the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost;

as is related by a certain diagram;

then you have Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as being separate rather than distinct;

and in that you cannot say that the three are one God. If they be separate, they can only be defined as three.

In the doctrine that I preach, there is one God, even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9 (kjv)); who descended into time and took on an added nature of human flesh (Isaiah 9:6-7, John 14:7-11) in the Person of Jesus Christ.

Have you considered post #117?

Oneness--coexistent modalism as the true Trinity

I have already explained. The Son always existed with the Father eteranlly. Not begotten. The Son as the Man, Jesus Christ, was begotten of God, at the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) Lees Do you believe that the Man Christ Jesus was not the Son, or one with the Son, until after the...

christianityhaven.com

 

[Lees]

I think I want @Lees to answer the question, thank you.

I did answer your question in post #(92). Your welcome.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Of course it is sound doctrine that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).

Born into the human race at the incarnation. Given at the incarnation. (Is. 9:6) Not begotten of God until the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee"

Lees

 

[justbyfaith]

Born into the human race at the incarnation. Given at the incarnation. (Is. 9:6) Not begotten of God until the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee"

Lees

yes born...= begotten.

 

[justbyfaith]

My answer to post #92...

Luke 1:35 tells me that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary and was born ("begotten") nine months later.

I will say again that God gave His only begotten Son when His Son died on the Cross for our sins; and therefore He was begotten before He died and therefore before He was resurrected.

Jesus was clearly begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35). That is sound doctrine.

There is also a sense in which He was begotten in the resurrection; but this is not to deny that He was begotten, also, in the incarnation.

If your verses declare that He was begotten in the resurrection, then my verse (Luke 1:35) declares that He was begotten in the incarnation.

Since "begotten" mean s "born" (and yes, I am here going to re-define the terms), then Jesus was begotten nine months after the juncture of Luke 1:35 when He was born as a Man on the face of the earth.

I am still curious as to what it is that you think it means that He was begotten in the resurrection. What exactly took place there; that you say He was begotten?

You need to know that Jesus is and always has been the Son of God from the moment of His conception to His ascending into eternity to exist outside of time.

So, He did not "become one with the Son of God" as a Man, when He rose from the dead.

He was the Son of God the whole time that He walked the earth; therefore He was begotten in the incarnation!

 

[Lees]

Luke 1:35 tells me that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin Mary and was born ("begotten") nine months later.

I will say again that God gave His only begotten Son when His Son died on the Cross for our sins; and therefore He was begotten before He died and therefore before He was resurrected.

Jesus was clearly begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35). That is sound doctrine.

There is also a sense in which He was begotten in the resurrection; but this is not to deny that He was begotten, also, in the incarnation.

If your verses declare that He was begotten in the resurrection, then my verse (Luke 1:35) declares that He was begotten in the incarnation.

Since "begotten" mean s "born" (and yes, I am here going to re-define the terms), then Jesus was begotten nine months after the juncture of Luke 1:35 when He was born as a Man on the face of the earth.

I am still curious as to what it is that you think it means that He was begotten in the resurrection. What exactly took place there; that you say He was begotten?

You need to know that Jesus is and always has been the Son of God from the moment of His conception to His ascending into eternity to exist outside of time.

So, He did not "become one with the Son of God" as a Man, when He rose from the dead.

He was the Son of God the whole time that He walked the earth; therefore He was begotten in the incarnation!

No. Scripture is clear. The day the Man Jesus was begotten as the Son of God was the day of the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

Begotten means 'born of'.

I already explained what it meant for Jesus to be begotten by God at the Resurrection. Post #(92)

Jesus was always God the Son. As it was the Son, that 2nd Person of the Trinity, Who was born into the human race. But Jesus was not begotten of God until the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee."

At the Resurrection the Holy Spirit forever solidified, or meshed, or however one can describe it, the Son with that Man Jesus Christ. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) That is the day Jesus was begotten of God. Just like that is the day by which believers are begotten of God also. (1 Peter 1:3)

See how perfect the work of God is?

Lees

 

[Lees]

At the juncture of Luke 1:35...while He also ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) to exist outside of time (since time is a created thing).

If you are of the opinion that

the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost;

as is related by a certain diagram;

then you have Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as being separate rather than distinct;

and in that you cannot say that the three are one God. If they be separate, they can only be defined as three.

In the doctrine that I preach, there is one God, even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, James 3:9 (kjv)); who descended into time and took on an added nature of human flesh (Isaiah 9:6-7, John 14:7-11) in the Person of Jesus Christ.

Have you considered post #117?

Oneness--coexistent modalism as the true Trinity

I have already explained. The Son always existed with the Father eteranlly. Not begotten. The Son as the Man, Jesus Christ, was begotten of God, at the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) Lees Do you believe that the Man Christ Jesus was not the Son, or one with the Son, until after the...

christianityhaven.com

Three Persons but One God. When in your doctrine did The Son come into existence?

Lees

 

[Lees]

My answer to post #92...

No. Your answer was in post #(94)

Lees

 

[justbyfaith]

No. Scripture is clear. The day the Man Jesus was begotten as the Son of God was the day of the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

Begotten means 'born of'.

I already explained what it meant for Jesus to be begotten by God at the Resurrection. Post #(92)

Jesus was always God the Son. As it was the Son, that 2nd Person of the Trinity, Who was born into the human race. But Jesus was not begotten of God until the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee."

At the Resurrection the Holy Spirit forever solidified, or meshed, or however one can describe it, the Son with that Man Jesus Christ. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) That is the day Jesus was begotten of God. Just like that is the day by which believers are begotten of God also. (1 Peter 1:3)

See how perfect the work of God is?

Lees

So, when Jesus was begotten, did He become the Son of God as the Man Christ Jesus?

 

[justbyfaith]

Three Persons but One God. When in your doctrine did The Son come into existence?

Lees

Both at the juncture of Luke 1:35 and in that He always has existed; because in ascending He ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10), which is a created thing...and therefore His existence, as the Son, ranges into eternity past.

And also, that Jesus preexisted as concerning His own experience in the Person of that Omnipresent Spirit who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh (for He is that same Spirit come in flesh).

 

[justbyfaith]

No. Your answer was in post #(94)

Lees

Also in post #121.

 

[justbyfaith]

Three Persons but One God.

Only if you count them as distinct rather than separate.

In order for that to work, they have to be the same Spirit; as I have been preaching.

 

[justbyfaith]

No. Scripture is clear. The day the Man Jesus was begotten as the Son of God was the day of the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

Begotten means 'born of'.

I already explained what it meant for Jesus to be begotten by God at the Resurrection. Post #(92)

Jesus was always God the Son. As it was the Son, that 2nd Person of the Trinity, Who was born into the human race. But Jesus was not begotten of God until the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee."

At the Resurrection the Holy Spirit forever solidified, or meshed, or however one can describe it, the Son with that Man Jesus Christ. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) That is the day Jesus was begotten of God. Just like that is the day by which believers are begotten of God also. (1 Peter 1:3)

See how perfect the work of God is?

Lees

I would say that there was a voice from heaven declaring of Jesus that "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED" at both Jesus' baptism and on the mount of transfiguration.

So, very obviously, Jesus was the Son of God before He died and rose again.

Was it your contention that He was not the Son before the resurrection?

Because it seems to me that if He was born / begotten at that juncture, then it was also at that juncture that He became the Son of God.

However, scripture denies that premise.

 

[justbyfaith]

*

 

[Lees]

So, when Jesus was begotten, did He become the Son of God as the Man Christ Jesus?

This has been explained a multitude of times. Jesus was the Son before being begotten by the Father. He was the Son before the incarnation. He was begotten of God at the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

Both at the juncture of Luke 1:35 and in that He always has existed; because in ascending He ascended to exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10), which is a created thing...and therefore His existence, as the Son, ranges into eternity past.

And also, that Jesus preexisted as concerning His own experience in the Person of that Omnipresent Spirit who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh (for He is that same Spirit come in flesh).

The Man Jesus did not exist until the incarnation. The Son existed throughout eternity.

The Son existed as His own Person. The Son with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Only if you count them as distinct rather than separate.

In order for that to work, they have to be the same Spirit; as I have been preaching.

Yes, three distinct Persons. One God.

Lees

 

[Lees]

I would say that there was a voice from heaven declaring of Jesus that "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED" at both Jesus' baptism and on the mount of transfiguration.

So, very obviously, Jesus was the Son of God before He died and rose again.

Was it your contention that He was not the Son before the resurrection?

Because it seems to me that if He was born / begotten at that juncture, then it was also at that juncture that He became the Son of God.

However, scripture denies that premise.

Do you have reading comprehension troubles? I explained it in post #(130) which you are replying to. Go back and reread.

The Son existed before the incarnation. At the incarnation the Son entered the human race as a Man, Jesus Christ. The Man Jesus Christ was begotten of God at the Resurrection. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33)

The Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity was never begotten. He always existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Son as the Man Jesus Christ was begotten at the Resurrection. Scripture is clear. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) "this day have I begotten thee"

Lees

 

[justbyfaith]

What does it mean that Jesus was begotten in the resurrection, if it does not mean that He became the Son of God?

Does not "begotten" mean "born of"?

If He is born of the Father does that not make Him the Son?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity was never begotten. He always existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Son as the Man Jesus Christ was begotten at the Resurrection.

So, you appear to be believing that there are two Persons that can be identified as "the Son".

 

[Lees]

What does it mean that Jesus was begotten in the resurrection, if it does not mean that He became the Son of God?

Does not "begotten" mean "born of"?

If He is born of the Father does that not make Him the Son?

I have already told you. There never has been a time when Jesus was not 'God the Son'. The 2nd Person of the Trinity. He always existed eternally with the Father, and Holy Spirit. Never begotten.

The Son, that 2nd Person of the Trinity, entered the human race at the incarnation, as the Man, Jesus Christ. He was still the Son. But He now was the Son as a Man. God the Son was not the Son because He was born into the family of man. Nor was God the Son the Son because of the Resurrection. Because the Son was never begotten.

At the Resurrection, the Son as the Man Jesus Christ was begotten of God. (Ps. 2:7) (Acts 13:33) Meaning Jesus Christ was literally born of God the Father. "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee"

Yes, begotten means born of. "This day have I begotten thee" (Ps. 27) (Acts 13:33) Scripture is clear.

I just explained it.

Lees