Will God destroy America?

[Lees]

Okay.

Of course it is. I have fished for crawdads before.

Lees

 

[atpollard]

Address the reasons I gave that America was established by God as a Christian nation. That America from it's start has been given tremendous light from God and protection to walk in His ways and to honor Him.

Sure, they are all built on factually false premises. America has been materially blessed, which has made it rich and powerful, but it has never been a Holy nation. I am reminded of the famous words of Winston Churchill: “America can always be counted on to do the right thing; after they have tried everything else.”

Do you really believe that America has not been blessed and established by God in this way?

Yes, I really believe that.

Do you really want me to refute your American Mythology with historic facts? I suspect not. I think your questions are mostly rhetorical.

 

[Lees]

Sure, they are all built on factually false premises. America has been materially blessed, which has made it rich and powerful, but it has never been a Holy nation. I am reminded of the famous words of Winston Churchill: “America can always be counted on to do the right thing; after they have tried everything else.”


Yes, I really believe that.

Do you really want me to refute your American Mythology with historic facts? I suspect not. I think your questions are mostly rhetorical.

Yes. I want you to refute what I have said that God created America a Christian nation.

Start first by telling me if you think God created the American nation at all?

Then you can continue by responding to my posts #(7) and (8) which were my answer to your previous posts. You're post #(9) ignored most everything I said.

Lees

 

[atpollard]

Yes. I want you to refute what I have said that God created America a Christian nation.

Start first by telling me if you think God created the American nation at all?

No.

I have answered the exact same question several times already.
You are not listening, you are only waiting to speak.
I am tired of trying to talk to you … I quit … you win.

 

[Lees]

No.

I have answered the exact same question several times already.
You are not listening, you are only waiting to speak.
I am tired of trying to talk to you … I quit … you win.

If God didn't create America as a nation, who did? (Rom. 13:1) (Dan. 4:25)

Lees

 

[Joshua1Eight]

Yes God will destroy America

 

[Nazareth]

A similar question to me would be, why shouldn't God destroy America?

Understand that nations are judged only in time. Not in eternity. Thus if a judgement is needed, it will be done in time. I say that because we in America like to think that if God does judge America and destroys it, it will be after Christ returns and all nations are judged. We don't like to think that God may judge America now, and destroy it for it's apostasy from God.

But, God most certainly judged Israel in time. The northern kingdom in 721 B.C. by the Assyrians. The southern kingdom in 586 B.C. by the Babylonians. And the restored Israel in 70 A.D. by the Romans. Though these were His chosen people, whom He loved, to whom He gave His written Word, to whom He performed miraculous works in order to preserve and keep them, to whom He sent His only Son as He always promised, He still brought a severe judgement.

Of course, it is this special relationship to God that actually demands God's judgement. This is a law of God. (Luke 12:42-48) Israel was given much light from God. And Israel rebelled against that light.

Wasn't America established by God? Wasn't America blessed with God's people populating it? Wasn't America weaned on the Word of God? Yet has not America cast God aside? Has not America done the same thing as Israel?

Yet we sit in our nation feeling safe and secure as though God would not judge us. As though judgement cannot come in a second. And so our nation goes about it's merry way flaunting it's sins in God's face.

It is my opinion that God has no choice but to judge America. And when He does, it will be with a severity comparable to that Israel has endured.

Lees

Why do you think over 300 million people should be put to death by God ? For being exactly what we are created to be. As he wills.

 

[Lees]

Why do you think over 300 million people should be put to death by God ? For being exactly what we are created to be. As he wills.

I believe I explained the 'why'...didn't I?

Not all have to be put to death for the nation to be destroyed. But, no doubt many will be.

What does your statement, "For being exactly what we are created to be. As he wills", mean?

Are you saying we are the Christian nation we were made by God to be?

Are you saying it is God's will that we are the unGodly nation that we now are?

Lees

 

[Nazareth]

imwe aims believe I explained the 'why'...didn't I?

Not all have to be put to death for the nation to be destroyed. But, no doubt many will be.

What does your statement, "For being exactly what we are created to be. As he wills", mean?

Are you saying we are the Christian nation we were made by God to be?

Are you saying it is God's will that we are the unGodly nation that we now are?

Lees

I'm saying that I think when Christians make statements such as yours, because you opine America deserves to be destroyed for being contrary to what is befitting our faith,or when others state AIDS, natural disasters, etc... are evidence of our God's righteous punishment for a people not being in conformity to our faith ideal, it demonstrates our anger at the world according to our judgement. That we then pass off as God being in accord.

For me, wondering when God is going to kill hundreds of millions of people due to our judgement it is deserved, or ''crediting'' God for AIDS, natural disasters that claim untold lives,because the dead deserved it, is demonstrating we have forgotten one of God's greatest truths, characteristics, properties, elements.

Sovereignty.

Psalm 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Pay attention to God's words to us including a book of Lamentations.

Nothing happens without God's permission

Lamentations 3
God’s Justice

37Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? 38 Do not both adversity and good come from the mouth of the Most High? 39Why should any mortal man complain, in view of his sins....


Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Rather than think God should wipe the sin slate clean and kill everybody not like us, according to our judgement, maybe consider the world is exactly according to God's plan.

And the whole point of that is communicated in those separation verses.

Wheat from the chaff, sheep from the goats, etc...

Which is to say knowing the difference between believing the words of God to that of living The Word that is God.

Instead of using the Bible as a club, a weapon,see it as a comforter and guidepost to navigate the roadmap he's set before us as our unique individual terrain we travel,hike, using his wisdom to understand and face every challenge.

It's a test.
Life, is a test.
The difference between living with faith alone. To living the faith when in fact God is in control.
So when you think what you think about America and God's judgement, maybe consider the question, what are you doing to shine his light in the darkness?

 

[Lees]

imwe aims believe I explained the 'why'...didn't I?

I'm saying that I think when Christians make statements such as yours, because you opine America deserves to be destroyed for being contrary to what is befitting our faith,or when others state AIDS, natural disasters, etc... are evidence of our God's righteous punishment for a people not being in conformity to our faith ideal, it demonstrates our anger at the world according to our judgement. That we then pass off as God being in accord.

For me, wondering when God is going to kill hundreds of millions of people due to our judgement it is deserved, or ''crediting'' God for AIDS, natural disasters that claim untold lives,because the dead deserved it, is demonstrating we have forgotten one of God's greatest truths, characteristics, properties, elements.

Sovereignty.

Psalm 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Pay attention to God's words to us including a book of Lamentations.

Nothing happens without God's permission

Lamentations 3
God’s Justice

37Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? 38 Do not both adversity and good come from the mouth of the Most High? 39Why should any mortal man complain, in view of his sins....


Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Rather than think God should wipe the sin slate clean and kill everybody not like us, according to our judgement, maybe consider the world is exactly according to God's plan.

And the whole point of that is communicated in those separation verses.

Wheat from the chaff, sheep from the goats, etc...

Which is to say knowing the difference between believing the words of God to that of living The Word that is God.

Instead of using the Bible as a club, a weapon,see it as a comforter and guidepost to navigate the roadmap he's set before us as our unique individual terrain we travel,hike, using his wisdom to understand and face every challenge.

It's a test.
Life, is a test.
The difference between living with faith alone. To living the faith when in fact God is in control.
So when you think what you think about America and God's judgement, maybe consider the question, what are you doing to shine his light in the darkness?

I don't know what you mean by 'imwe'.

I don't know why you say 'our judgement'. I am talking abut the just judgement of God. Just as He has done in the past as I already showed in post #(1). Just as He will do in the future. See the book of (Revelation) Because God has given us so much in the Scripture concerning His just judgements, I think it perfectly natural and right to study up on them.

Jesus said to the Jews in (Luke 19:42) "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."

What's the implication? They should have known. Because they ignored it, it is taken from them.

I have no problem with God's sovereignty. Neither do I have a problem with man being judged by his decisions and will.

I disagree with your accusation that I use the Bible as a club. I use it to deliver the truth that God has revealed in it. Sometimes it can be a comfort. Sometimes it can be a warning.

Lees

 

[Nazareth]

I don't know what you mean by 'imwe'.

Maybe just ignore the four letter typo that precedes your post the quote box cut off and address what I posted after the quote box.

 

[Nazareth]

I don't know what you mean by 'imwe'.

I don't know why you say 'our judgement'. I am talking abut the just judgement of God. Just as He has done in the past as I already showed in post #(1). Just as He will do in the future. See the book of (Revelation) Because God has given us so much in the Scripture concerning His just judgements, I think it perfectly natural and right to study up on them.

Jesus said to the Jews in (Luke 19:42) "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."

What's the implication? They should have known. Because they ignored it, it is taken from them.

I have no problem with God's sovereignty. Neither do I have a problem with man being judged by his decisions and will.

I disagree with your accusation that I use the Bible as a club. I use it to deliver the truth that God has revealed in it. Sometimes it can be a comfort. Sometimes it can be a warning.

Lees

It is our judgement.

We look at the world and when we employ the past histories of other civilizations, tribes, being judged and destroyed by God and wonder when we're next, that's our judgement that thinks God should act because we think it time.

The title of this thread asks as much.

My post was inclusive of all Christians who afford a just judgement mind set. It wasn't isolating your pov.
As was made obvious using the plural pronoun ''we''.

And for the record, our faith, the Bible, has been used as a weapon for centuries.
As our history proves.
If God didn't levy judgement in a timely manner per of our opinion, our ancestors certainly presumed to take the initiative.

Asking if God should judge America is just another question. In the past such questions were answered with acts like the crusades.

 

[Nazareth]

If God didn't create America as a nation, who did? (Rom. 13:1) (Dan. 4:25)

Lees

I think our 1st Amendment demonstrates America was not founded as a Christian theocratic government.
Because the 1st Amendment insured the inalienable right to all religions free practice and expression.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

 

[Lees]

It is our judgement.

We look at the world and when we employ the past histories of other civilizations, tribes, being judged and destroyed by God and wonder when we're next, that's our judgement that thinks God should act because we think it time.

The title of this thread asks as much.

My post was inclusive of all Christians who afford a just judgement mind set. It wasn't isolating your pov.
As was made obvious using the plural pronoun ''we''.

And for the record, our faith, the Bible, has been used as a weapon for centuries.
As our history proves.
If God didn't levy judgement in a timely manner per of our opinion, our ancestors certainly presumed to take the initiative.

Asking if God should judge America is just another question. In the past such questions were answered with acts like the crusades.

You leave out that we recognize that we as a nation have left God. And that for that God has brought judgement upon a people in the past. So our judgement from God is a correct evaluation to consider.

God defines His Word as a Sword....doesn't He. (Eph. 6:17) And that sword is to be used for reproof and correction also. (2 Timothy 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof , for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

I thought you believed in the sovereignty of God. Why say our ancestors presumed? God uses even unbelieving nations as a weapon to destroy others as He did with Assyria against the Northern tribes of Israel, and as He did with Babylon against the Southern tribes. (Is. 10:5-7) (Jeremiah 21:4-5) Just as He did with and for His people Israel when He brought them against the land of Canaan.

Our ancestors came over to this new world as a Christian people. War was inevitable when living amongst the heathen though they probably had no thoughts at the beginning for war. But God did. I addressed some of this in post #(7).

Asking if God should judge America is another and important question. Your response appears to be to ignore God in our past history. Your response appears to be to simply go on as none of that is important. Just keep being a 'good christian' and don't bother with things like that.

I find that appearance similar to the ostritch with his head in the sand. It doesn't help. When and if God brings judgement upon America and it falls, and I believe He will, people are going to wonder how so great a nation could be destroyed. And the answer is God. And the reasons are because we as a nation have left God. My opinion.

Lees

 

[Lees]

I think our 1st Amendment demonstrates America was not founded as a Christian theocratic government.
Because the 1st Amendment insured the inalienable right to all religions free practice and expression.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

Not hardly. By the time the 1st Amendment was written, America had been peopled and governed by a Christian people for some 200 years. Churches set up everywhere. Bibles in all court houses to be sweared upon for testimony and taking office. Christian and mainly Protestant.

The first Ammedment forbade Congress to enact a law establishing any one religion. And that pertained to the Christian faith, most especailly the Church of England or the Episcopal which was the law/religion of the land in England. That was their concern. They were not trying to keep Christianity out of government. After the Constitution was written, did they immediately take away all Bibles and prayer in government. Of course not.

All we see today is the abuse of the 1st Amendment as our nation has turned away from God. What a coincidence? Right? Separation of Church and State and the government has gone to hell.

Lees

 

[Nazareth]

Not hardly. By the time the 1st Amendment was written, America had been peopled and governed by a Christian people for some 200 years. Churches set up everywhere. Bibles in all court houses to be sweared upon for testimony and taking office. Christian and mainly Protestant.

The first Ammedment forbade Congress to enact a law establishing any one religion. And that pertained to the Christian faith, most especailly the Church of England or the Episcopal which was the law/religion of the land in England. That was their concern. They were not trying to keep Christianity out of government. After the Constitution was written, did they immediately take away all Bibles and prayer in government. Of course not.

All we see today is the abuse of the 1st Amendment as our nation has turned away from God. What a coincidence? Right? Separation of Church and State and the government has gone to hell.

Lees

There was a reason the first amendment was passed.

''The Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment in response to two centuries of state-sponsored religious conflict and oppression in America, and with a keen understanding of the religious persecution in European nations resulting from official state religions and religious wars. ''

Primer on the First Amendment & Religious Freedom

www.adl.org

 

[Nazareth]

You leave out that we recognize that we as a nation have left God. And that for that God has brought judgement upon a people in the past. So our judgement from God is a correct evaluation to consider.

God defines His Word as a Sword....doesn't He. (Eph. 6:17) And that sword is to be used for reproof and correction also. (2 Timothy 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof , for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

I thought you believed in the sovereignty of God. Why say our ancestors presumed? God uses even unbelieving nations as a weapon to destroy others as He did with Assyria against the Northern tribes of Israel, and as He did with Babylon against the Southern tribes. (Is. 10:5-7) (Jeremiah 21:4-5) Just as He did with and for His people Israel when He brought them against the land of Canaan.

Our ancestors came over to this new world as a Christian people. War was inevitable when living amongst the heathen though they probably had no thoughts at the beginning for war. But God did. I addressed some of this in post #(7).

Asking if God should judge America is another and important question. Your response appears to be to ignore God in our past history. Your response appears to be to simply go on as none of that is important. Just keep being a 'good christian' and don't bother with things like that.

I find that appearance similar to the ostritch with his head in the sand. It doesn't help. When and if God brings judgement upon America and it falls, and I believe He will, people are going to wonder how so great a nation could be destroyed. And the answer is God. And the reasons are because we as a nation have left God. My opinion.

Lees

God is sovereign.

Our ancestors presumed to act according to what they presumed would remedy issues rising contrary to God's ideal.

All through the OT we see God's judgement being exercised by God's people and against other people.

There's an old saying. You know you've made God into your image and likeness when ''he'' hates the same people you do.

God is not male.

For eons people have worshipped God who has created all that exists to be as is. The evil and the good.

If we read scripture as literature we witness the reminder that the human race is made in the image and likeness of God. We are a reflection of God.

So when you ask why shouldn't God judge America, because in your opinion America is worthy, you fail to consider Americans,all people, are exactly as God willed them to be.
Because God is like into us. Violent, vindictive,petty, angry,judgemental,
homicidal, and even perverse. God's OT rule for testing to see if a woman had committed adultery is one example.

If you live in America you're asking for God's judgement upon yourself.

If you don't live in America and you ask God to bring judgement, look to your own country first. Judge not lest ye be judged.

 

[Lees]

There was a reason the first amendment was passed.

''The Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment in response to two centuries of state-sponsored religious conflict and oppression in America, and with a keen understanding of the religious persecution in European nations resulting from official state religions and religious wars. ''

Primer on the First Amendment & Religious Freedom

www.adl.org

I just told you why the first Amendment was passed. Yet you ignored what I said. Instead you immediately go to a link.

Are you one of those?

Lees

 

[Nazareth]

I just told you why the first Amendment was passed. Yet you ignored what I said. Instead you immediately go to a link.

Are you one of those?

Lees

Did you read the link?

 

[Lees]

God is sovereign.

Our ancestors presumed to act according to what they presumed would remedy issues rising contrary to God's ideal.

All through the OT we see God's judgement being exercised by God's people and against other people.

There's an old saying. You know you've made God into your image and likeness when ''he'' hates the same people you do.

God is not male.

For eons people have worshipped God who has created all that exists to be as is. The evil and the good.

If we read scripture as literature we witness the reminder that the human race is made in the image and likeness of God. We are a reflection of God.

So when you ask why shouldn't God judge America, because in your opinion America is worthy, you fail to consider Americans,all people, are exactly as God willed them to be.
Because God is like into us. Violent, vindictive,petty, angry,judgemental,
homicidal, and even perverse. God's OT rule for testing to see if a woman had committed adultery is one example.

If you live in America you're asking for God's judgement upon yourself.

If you don't live in America and you ask God to bring judgement, look to your own country first. Judge not lest ye be judged.

I never heard that 'old saying'. Here is my saying. As a Christian it's right to hate the things God hates. And God is clear in Scripture what He hates.

And yes, note the word 'He' when used for God. Why? Because God is a 'He'. God is 'Masculine'. He is not 'feminine'. He is not 'neutered'.

I do live in America. Which is why I am knowlegable about America being created by God as a Christian Nation. Which you claim it has not, but now you try and divert attention elsewhere.

I do live in America. And I deserve the judgement of God as any other American. Look at the thread I started, 'Will God destroy the Rightesous with the Wicked', for my further thoughts on the Christians in America.

Lees