Did Jesus quote the Apocrypha?

[NathanH83]

The Geneva Bible is from 1560. There was no "study verse" (as the the speaker showed); there weren't even verses then (displayed in what he showed).

The KJV is from 1611. It is AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BIBLE - and an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TRANSLATION.

There is no such thing as a "Geneva Bible - King James Version."

NEITHER had study notes in it, as the video shows.

There are endless "problems" with this video that display a LOT of misinformation and ignorance. And worse, a lot of enormous leaps for which there is not even an attempt to substantiate or justify.

And as you admitted, what Jesus said is not a verbatim repeat.... and it would provide ZERO substantiation that Jesus was quoting something even if it did, or that that "something" is this DEUTERO book, or that if quoting, that substantiates that He regarded it as Scripture. It's simply baseless. And shrouded in every way by misinformation.

I encourage you to look elsewhere for information.

Hey Josiah. Try using Wikipedia. You might actually sound smart if you took 2 seconds to research stuff before spouting off nonsense.

 

[atpollard]

Jesus established the limits and content of Scripture as it existed when he lived ...

[Mat 23:35 NASB] 35 so that upon you may fall [the guilt of] all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
[Luk 11:51 NASB] 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house [of God;] yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'

... in the Hebrew Scriptures as they were collected in the time of Jesus (before Saint Jerome changed the order), the murder of Abel was the first murder in the first book of Hebrew Scripture (Genesis) and the murder of Zechariah was the last murder in the last book of Hebrew Scripture (Chronicles). Jesus was charging his generation with the guilt of all of the Holy Scriptures. Note that Maccabees was not included in either the Hebrew Bible or in Jesus’ list of murdered prophets of God.

[Luk 24:44 NASB] 44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

... Jesus claimed that the prophecies about him written in the God breathed Scripture must be fulfilled. Maccabees is not part of the “Law of Moses”. Maccabees is not part of the “Prophets” (as shown above). Maccabees was not part of “Psalms”. The original structure of the Hebrew Bible divided the books into three sections, the first being the books written by Moses and commonly called “The Law”, the second being all of the Prophetic books and collectively called “the Prophets” and the third being a collection of books beginning with Psalms and ending with Chronicles that was commonly called either “the Histories” or “the Psalms” (after the first book in the section).

According to Jesus, there is nothing in Maccabees that is God breathed Scripture that must be fulfilled by him. Maccabees was included in the Apocrypha because it was of some historic value (just like the Histories of Josephus are) and the Apocrypha was NEVER held to be inspired, God breathed, infallible scripture for a very good reason.

 

[NathanH83]

Jesus established the limits and content of Scripture as it existed when he lived ...

[Mat 23:35 NASB] 35 so that upon you may fall [the guilt of] all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
[Luk 11:51 NASB] 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house [of God;] yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'

... in the Hebrew Scriptures as they were collected in the time of Jesus (before Saint Jerome changed the order), the murder of Abel was the first murder in the first book of Hebrew Scripture (Genesis) and the murder of Zechariah was the last murder in the last book of Hebrew Scripture (Chronicles). Jesus was charging his generation with the guilt of all of the Holy Scriptures. Note that Maccabees was not included in either the Hebrew Bible or in Jesus’ list of murdered prophets of God.

[Luk 24:44 NASB] 44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

... Jesus claimed that the prophecies about him written in the God breathed Scripture must be fulfilled. Maccabees is not part of the “Law of Moses”. Maccabees is not part of the “Prophets” (as shown above). Maccabees was not part of “Psalms”. The original structure of the Hebrew Bible divided the books into three sections, the first being the books written by Moses and commonly called “The Law”, the second being all of the Prophetic books and collectively called “the Prophets” and the third being a collection of books beginning with Psalms and ending with Chronicles that was commonly called either “the Histories” or “the Psalms” (after the first book in the section).

According to Jesus, there is nothing in Maccabees that is God breathed Scripture that must be fulfilled by him. Maccabees was included in the Apocrypha because it was of some historic value (just like the Histories of Josephus are) and the Apocrypha was NEVER held to be inspired, God breathed, infallible scripture for a very good reason.

Jesus was not talking about the Zechariah in 2 Chronicles. They were two different Zechariahs.

 

[NathanH83]

Josiah, notice how it says MDLX. That's Roman numerals for 1560. That's the year it was printed. And this is an exact photocopy replica of it. They went through 24 different original 1560 Geneva Bibles before they could find ones that were in good enough condition to have them photocopied. The rest had stains on them or rips and tears and other blemishes. This is a bonifide, legitimate replica of the original.

 

[NathanH83]

Here's the definition of facsimile, in case anyone doesn't know what that means.

 

[RichWh1]

Exactly. And for the longest time, I could never figure out what Paul was talking about. Why? Because I had never read the book of Maccabees. Why? Because people told me that it's not scripture, so I never bothered reading it. See the problem there?

I see what you are talking about. The Apocrypha is a collection of 15 books of Jewish origin, all not part of the inspired Word of God.

"The Apocrypha" includes 15 books, all but one of which are Jewish in origin and found in the Septuagint (parts of 2 Esdras are possibly Christian and Latin in origin). Influenced by the Jewish canon of the OT, the custom arose of making the Apocrypha a separate section in the Protestant Bible, or sometimes even of omitting them entirely.

2 Esdras is actually Ezra/Nehemiah in the Hebrew Scripture.
The other writings are of Jewish origin yet not inspired by God or God-breathed.

1 2 Maccabees are Jewish writings that tell of the Jewish wars and hardships of the Maccabee family, including Judas Maccabee.



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[NathanH83]

I see what you are talking about. The Apocrypha is a collection of 15 books of Jewish origin, all not part of the inspired Word of God.

"The Apocrypha" includes 15 books, all but one of which are Jewish in origin and found in the Septuagint (parts of 2 Esdras are possibly Christian and Latin in origin). Influenced by the Jewish canon of the OT, the custom arose of making the Apocrypha a separate section in the Protestant Bible, or sometimes even of omitting them entirely.

2 Esdras is actually Ezra/Nehemiah in the Hebrew Scripture.
The other writings are of Jewish origin yet not inspired by God or God-breathed.

1 2 Maccabees are Jewish writings that tell of the Jewish wars and hardships of the Maccabee family, including Judas Maccabee.



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The Jews were the ones who included those books in the Greek Septuagint. That's why the earliest Christians considered them to be scripture. It wasn't until AFTER Christ that the UNbelieving Jews took those books out. Then in the 4th century some Christians also got duped BY the Jews that those books don't belong.

You're buying into a Jewish conspiracy.

 

[RichWh1]

The Jews were the ones who included those books in the Greek Septuagint. That's why the earliest Christians considered them to be scripture. It wasn't until AFTER Christ that the UNbelieving Jews took those books out. Then in the 4th century some Christians also got duped BY the Jews that those books don't belong.

You're buying into a Jewish conspiracy.

Seventy two Hebrew scholars, not Levites; Levites were the ones who copied the Hebrew Scripture for the twelve tribes of Israel. They are also the same ones who were present at the canonization of the Scripture

The Hebrew scholars, not Levites, added the Apocrypha.


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[NathanH83]

Seventy two Hebrew scholars, not Levites; Levites were the ones who copied the Hebrew Scripture for the twelve tribes of Israel. They are also the same ones who were present at the canonization of the Scripture

The Hebrew scholars, not Levites, added the Apocrypha.


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So the author of Psalms is a Levite now? I thought David was from Judah. The author of Romans and Corinthians is a Levite now? I thought Paul was of Benjamin?

Where is the verse that says only Levites can write or copy scripture?

 

[RichWh1]

So the author of Psalms is a Levite now? I thought David was from Judah. The author of Romans and Corinthians is a Levite now? I thought Paul was of Benjamin?

Where is the verse that says only Levites can write or copy scripture?

No! Those who copied the Scriptures were. Not the writers. You misread my post.

There was . . a subordinate class of scribes, most of whom were Levites. They were engaged in various ways as writers. Such, for example, was Baruch, who "wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the Lord" ( Jeremiah 36:4 Jeremiah 36:32 ).

In later times, after the Captivity, when the nation lost its independence, the scribes turned their attention to the law, gaining for themselves distinction by their intimate acquaintance with its contents. On them devolved the duty of multiplying copies of the law and of teaching it to others ( Ezra 7:6 Ezra 7:10-12 ; Nehemiah 8:1 Nehemiah 8:4 Nehemiah 8:9 Nehemiah 8:13 ).


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[NathanH83]

No! Those who copied the Scriptures were. Not the writers. You misread my post.



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Oh! Those who COPIED scripture. Now it makes sense. Because, of course, you cited the scripture verse that actually says that.....?

 

[RichWh1]

I edited my post above adding Scripture verses that show Levites as those who were chosen to copy the Scriptures


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[NathanH83]

I edited my post above adding Scripture verses that show Levites as those who were chosen to copy the Scriptures


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Where does it say that only Levites can translate the scriptures into a foreign language? I'm not seeing that. This really concerns me because I'm pretty sure that the 50 translators of my King James Bible were not Levites. Can you show me the exact verse and explain it?

 

[RichWh1]

Where does it say that only Levites can translate the scriptures into a foreign language? I'm not seeing that. This really concerns me because I'm pretty sure that the 50 translators of my King James Bible were not Levites. Can you show me the exact verse and explain it?

Here’s a history lesson. The Jews had been led captive into Babylon and while there, they had lost their Hebrew language and since Levites alone copied the Scriptures they alone retained their knowledge of Hebrew.

When they were delivered from Babylon, they were speaking Aramaic, the language of Babylon.

Eventually, the Levites had become the teachers due to the fact that they still knew Hebrew

Why are you speaking about the King James Version of Scripture? I never said Levites translated all versions of Scripture! Sheesh!

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[NathanH83]

Here’s a history lesson. The Jews had been led captive into Babylon and while there, they had lost their Hebrew language and since Levites alone copied the Scriptures they alone retained their knowledge of Hebrew.

When they were delivered from Babylon, they were speaking Aramaic, the language of Babylon.

Eventually, the Levites had become the teachers due to the fact that they still knew Hebrew


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Ah! Ok. And where does it say that only Levites can translate the Bible?
I'm pretty sure most of our Bibles today were not translated by Levites.

 

[RichWh1]

Ah! Ok. And where does it say that only Levites can translate the Bible?
I'm pretty sure most of our Bibles today were not translated by Levites.

I am referring to the ancient texts (Law Writings and Prophets) not modern translations of the Bible!


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[NathanH83]

I am referring to the ancient texts not modern translations of the Bible!


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I thought we were talking about the Greek translation????

 

[atpollard]

Ah! Ok. And where does it say that only Levites can translate the Bible?
I'm pretty sure most of our Bibles today were not translated by Levites.

He is not saying that.
He is saying that the Levites who were experts in Hebrew in a nation of ‘Jews’ that didn’t speak Hebrew EXCLUDED the Apocrypha from the Scripture as they copied Scripture. Seventy-two non-Levite ‘Jewish Scholars’ (who are not experts in Hebrew) made the decision to add the Apocrypha to the Old Testament.

Do you think it completely irrelevant that God appointed the Levites to perform a task concerning His Word, and it was NON - LEVITES that added books to God’s Holy Word?

 

[RichWh1]

I thought we were talking about the Greek translation????

No! The only Greek we were talking about is Hellenistic Greek, the language spoken 3rd century B.C.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew not Greek, except for the Septuagint translation

I told you already that Levites did not translate the Septuagint. Seventy two Hebrew scholars did and THEY added the Apocrypha The Levites did not add it!


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[atpollard]

No! The only Greek we were talking about is Hellenistic Greek, the language spoken 3rd century B.C.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew not Greek, except for the Septuagint translation
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Just to add confusion, isn’t there evidence that Jesus might have generally quoted from the Septuagint?
I remember reading that the wording of Jesus’ OT quotes more closely matches the Septuagint than the Hebrew Old Testament (as a word for word quote).